Firefighters Vote to Boycott Bush’s 9/11 Tribute

FIREMAN

FIREMAN

New Member
Originally posted by Hessian


Toys...yes Toys. And again my point was strengthened by the LaPlata fire: The biggest lesson was multi-company coordination...
How do we use the machinery we have...with an excellent coordination of fighting units---That's what beat the fire.
To Lobby for a $300,000 armored "Fire interceptor Foam generating, hell defying, Blast master" (That sits and needs costly maintenance and continual upgrades) means that many less training sessions, individual equipment improvements, and multi-company drills....that is the true cost of a "Toy."

How about more recruiting of youth? My brother's company is aging fast...that generation of community-minded organizations is dying (Elks Moose, VFW) etc....thus the average age of these firemen is pushing the upper 40's...Will new "Toys" lure in truly dedicated, long term volunteers? I doubt it...and the older guys will still be selling the raffle tickets, cleaning up after the fair, and scrubbing the Old Diesel Pumper #7 because....no younger personel will do it.
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Well I'll tell you right now that I'm not the greatest debater in the world. But I would like to try to answer all your questions to the best of my ability.

The subject of Toys. The department that I run with is a small department and were a little out of the times with our equipment but we make do with what we have. Every year we have a budget that has to be met. So if we see a tool that is needed to make a rescue more safer or more sufficient, then we have to budget that piece of equipment till next year. Even though that tool could come in handy right now. But we wait and I only see that hurting the public. Because that is our business Protection and Safety of the Public. Or equipment and trucks have very heavy price tags on them, you can't buy a fire truck under 350,000 dollars. But we budget it in and wait almost 20 years before we can afford to get a new truck. 20 to 30 years is the average life of a fire truck, after it's time that the piece of apparatus is considered to be out of service. We as Volunteers will probable never see Federal Aid, but it would be nice to see the big city get the help that is needed.

Young recruiting is always a problem. I started when I was 14, but I couldn't ride the truck till I was 16. So those two years I spent cleaning trucks, firehouse and taking classes. Probie work is the most hardest time that you will have in the fire service. It will either make you or break you. Kids these days don't want to do that, they want to stay in front of the T.V. So since they don't want to come to us, then we go to them. We go to there schools and communities and teach them fire prevention. We show them what we do and with a little lucky some of them get hooked and come and join. Then you have people like me that come from a long line of firefighter. My father, brothers, uncles, cousin are all in the fire service. So it was only one thing for me to do was join.

There's allot of work and money involved in running a volunteer organization, it just not just jumping on the truck and being a hero.
 
FIREMAN

FIREMAN

New Member
Originally posted by Heretic
Money to firemen, probably a good idea. Boycotting a Setp 11th tribute over money is a bad idea in my opinion.
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I agree with you 110%. I'm sure everyone that is in fire service, either Volunteer or Paid will pay some kind of tribute that day. I don't see a brotherhood as tight as the fire service turning there backs on each other over money. I just don't see it happening.
 
G

giggles04

Guest
Originally posted by FIREMAN


Well I'll tell you right now that I'm not the greatest debater in the world. But I would like to try to answer all your questions to the best of my ability.

The subject of Toys. The department that I run with is a small department and were a little out of the times with our equipment but we make do with what we have. Every year we have a budget that has to be met. So if we see a tool that is needed to make a rescue more safer or more sufficient, then we have to budget that piece of equipment till next year. Even though that tool could come in handy right now. But we wait and I only see that hurting the public. Because that is our business Protection and Safety of the Public. Or equipment and trucks have very heavy price tags on them, you can't buy a fire truck under 350,000 dollars. But we budget it in and wait almost 20 years before we can afford to get a new truck. 20 to 30 years is the average life of a fire truck, after it's time that the piece of apparatus is considered to be out of service. We as Volunteers will probable never see Federal Aid, but it would be nice to see the big city get the help that is needed.

Young recruiting is always a problem. I started when I was 14, but I couldn't ride the truck till I was 16. So those two years I spent cleaning trucks, firehouse and taking classes. Probie work is the most hardest time that you will have in the fire service. It will either make you or break you. Kids these days don't want to do that, they want to stay in front of the T.V. So since they don't want to come to us, then we go to them. We go to there schools and communities and teach them fire prevention. We show them what we do and with a little lucky some of them get hooked and come and join. Then you have people like me that come from a long line of firefighter. My father, brothers, uncles, cousin are all in the fire service. So it was only one thing for me to do was join.

There's allot of work and money involved in running a volunteer organization, it just not just jumping on the truck and being a hero.
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Fireman, you couldn't have said it better myself. I've been biting the bullet not to get into this debate... cause I've got other things going on... but here I be. Most people don't realize what fire departments have to go through to have the equipment that they have. They're not just "toys" . Most places do a letter writing campaign, signs, or have dinners, or even a carnival (man that can be a pain) to earn money for their department. Once they know they have to get a new truck in the near future, it takes months to even figure out all the specs of the truck. They don't get all of the fancy equipment just so they have something to play with... they get it so they can save you when you need help. Thats what its all about... to serve the public better! My dad has been a firefighter for over 30 yrs... and my boyfriend has for about 5.. and they both say the same thing about it.

As for bringing in younger members... you hit the nail on the head. Most kids don't want to go through all of the hard work, and dedicate themselves to something as big as being a firefighter... and a volunteer at that. There are those special ones, that come out of the way, and do all of the work they can to be able to protect and serve their community as a firefighter or an ems personel. Not everyone is cut out for the job. Fireman can go into the schools, talk about fire prevention, and hope that they touch some boy or girl to the point that they want to be involved, but other than that people can always stop by any fire station in this county and there's bound to be somebody there that would be able to help them. Other than that, the departments make do with the people that they have... and run their calls. Thats all that can be done!
 
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G.R. Quinn

New Member
IAF boycott? So what?

If this is true, which I doubt, The International Association of Firefighters is probably an ultra-left wing union that supports Democrats like Clinton.

I hope they stay away. Good riddance!:cheers:
 
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MGKrebs

endangered species
As usual, it comes down to what is more important for us. Everything costs money. It's fine to say we want firefighters to make more money, but they ARE...because of the tax cut. They, and we, can't have both.

I wanted to mention also, that the same day Bush made the example of denying supposedly wasted money for a building to store and study bugs and worms, they were announcing more cases of West Nile virus in Louisiana. Maybe there are other ways to handle the virus, but perhaps not the best example that day.
 
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bitchkitty

New Member
Typical Bush

He took his megaphone and cowboy boots to the World Trade Center and got a great photo op, but he can't give them money that they need and deserve. Typical.
 
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bknarw

Attire Monitor
Re: Typical Bush

Originally posted by bitchkitty
He took his megaphone and cowboy boots to the World Trade Center and got a great photo op, but he can't give them money that they need and deserve. Typical.
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How wonderfully simplistic, yet...WRONG!

By the way...welcome to the boards.
What are you wearing?
 
pixiegirl

pixiegirl

Cleopatra Jones
Re: Re: Typical Bush

Originally posted by bknarw



How wonderfully simplistic, yet...WRONG!

By the way...welcome to the boards.
What are you wearing?
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Bk, I love you! :kiss:

All you newbies. Geezus Christ! First of all if you would have read the thread in it's entirety Ken (i think) posted a response blowing the original post out of the water. Second of all I for one do not mind paying for the salaries of firefighters. As far as my tax dollars, well that's another thread in itself. Where in the hell does all my tax money go to now? God knows I pay out the a$$ and I personally don't see sh!t for it.
 
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bitchkitty

New Member
Re: Re: Typical Bush

Originally posted by bknarw



How wonderfully simplistic, yet...WRONG!

By the way...welcome to the boards.
What are you wearing?
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Wrong? Moi? I guess that was an escaped chimp in a hardhat that I saw hopping around frantically! My bad!

Thanks for the welcome. A towel, I just got out of the shower.
 
cattitude

cattitude

My Sweetest Boy
Joey

Not exactly sure, but rumor has it he got tired of all the "games." Dag, I really liked his posts.
 
M

MGKrebs

endangered species
Hessian:
>Fireman hit the issue directly: Local support for local needs: Donations, volunteerism,--builds local support and unity. Name the need and the community pitches in to help. Jefferson would be proud.

>My brother's company is aging fast...that generation of community-minded organizations is dying (Elks Moose, VFW) etc....thus the average age of these firemen is pushing the upper 40's...Will new "Toys" lure in truly dedicated, long term volunteers? I doubt it...and the older guys will still be selling the raffle tickets, cleaning up after the fair, and scrubbing the Old Diesel Pumper #7 because....no younger personel will do it.

Hessian- You say that donations and volunteerism is the way, but then say that that generation is dying. Good luck depending on donations and volunteers. I think that’s fine for non-critical services, but we NEED fire services- they can’t be totally dependent on whether that neighborhood is fully employed and has extra money that they won’t spend on, let’s say, a new sport ute.



Heretic:
>Paying tribute to victims and heros should not take a back seat to the all mighty dollar. This is a day where no politics should take place. There is a time and place for everything, Sept 11th is not the time to yell for money.

I think the sentiment was that Bush had promised the support, and then took it away. The politics can’t be avoided- the Dem’s will say that that extra money was needed and the tax cut is not, or the anti-missile program is not, and Bush said that there’s too much money for studying bugs, I guess, and the tax cut is necessary. I’m glad they appear to have it resolved, but the firefighters are caught in the middle.
 
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MGKrebs

endangered species
But it IS about money

Hessian
>Oh...regarding that Education funding question...man, that has sure helped a lot in the past 40 years hasn't it? Scores up, happy Teachers, plenty of classrooms, productive students...we sure did great with those federal funds huh?)

Again, all this stuff isn’t free. It’s not a matter of federal or not-
teacher’s pay=money
classrooms=money

If there wasn’t so much pressure to cut taxes, we might be able to achieve some of this stuff. Having said that, my opinion is that the biggest hurdle to better student performance is parental involvement, or lack thereof. But you can’t really force the parents to participate more, can you?

By the way, to what are you comparing our students performance? I’m not saying it shouldn’t be better, but if we are comparing to say, Japan, or Germany, let’s see what they are doing for success. It’s not reinventing the wheel here.

pixiegirl
>As far as my tax dollars, well that's another thread in itself. Where in the hell does all my tax money go to now? God knows I pay out the a$$ and I personally don't see sh!t for it.

Hmm,… how about roads, food inspectors, firefighters, cops, product safety standards, property records, judges, parks, buiding inspectors, prosecutors, airports, …

Of course, if I’m not mistaken, the biggest part of FEDERAL money goes to defense and social security (from which they borrow constantly, and will have to pay back someday…soon).
 
pixiegirl

pixiegirl

Cleopatra Jones
I almost liked you but apparently you didn't read all of my posts. Let me clarify for you. I do think that firefighters should be paid with federal money. And no, I don't mind paying for it at all. Where do my taxes go? I really would like to know. Not enough of it is going to useful things that benefit me like firefighters, roads, schools, etc. and too much of it is being squandered on crap I will never see like welfare. That's the point I was making.
 
M

MGKrebs

endangered species
I have an opinion on that too!

I can't dispute that there is waste in government. But there is waste in business, too. I've worked for big companies, and the waste is unbelievable. (And this in a successful, profitable company.) And there are people who take advantage of the system. But I question whether the waste is as rampant as we are sometimes led to believe. There is a LOT of oversight of government programs, and we always here about the waste and fraud in those systems. What I know is that we have the lowest taxes per income of any industrialized nation, and the lowest government expenditures as a percent of GDP also. Which is fine, but it's hard for me to hear whining about taxes vs. services when this is the case.

Regarding welfare, I don't really know. Statistically, there will always be a certain number of people who can't compete for whatever reason. What to do with them? How many are there? How do we decide who gets care and who doesn't? I don't know. But, you say you pay taxes for welfare but will never see it. I hope that's true. :) The biggest part of my property taxes are for schools, and I don't have kids. Should I be pissed?

I think I saw a site recently that broke down the fed budget in easy to read language. I will try to find it again. I remember it being enlightening. Only a small part of the fed budget is discretionary. The rest, veterans benefits and social security and so forth, is locked in.

Sorry about not seing your earlier stuff, I'm still getting used to the interface here.
 
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