First Colony Center

[SoMDGirl42]

Ugh. The problem that seems to continue to escape you people is this: THIS ISNT A BELIEF.

for Pete sake. Why are you insisting on this???

Reactions like this are the reason these people are out there. Because people keep turning a blind eye. Because a simple, civil conversation does not work.

How does this not make us violently ill? How do we sleep at night knowing this is happening? I am so completely flabbergasted.

Well if it isn't a belief what is it?

 

[Radiant1]

The religious fanatics say that life starts at conception.

Please refer to post #309.

 

[bilbur]

Please refer to post #309.

I agree that not all protestors for this cause are religious but my point was there are different beliefs on when it is considered life. I used the religious fanatic example because the catholic church teaches that life begins at conception.

 

[GW8345]

This is a belief. The religious fanatics say that life starts at conception. I disagree and say that life doesn't start until there is a heartbeat which is around week 5 I think. Some people may not consider it life until a point after that even. This is why this is a belief, if it were up to most of the hard core protestors they would even outlaw the morning after pill and all other forms of contraception. Where would we be then? We would be so over populated that the country would go broke unless the religious can make that whole abstinence thing sound cool.

If life doesn’t start at conception then how is it that a one cell ameba is considered a life form?

How is a sponge a life form, it does not have a heartbeat.

And your generalization that “most hard core protestors” would want contraception to be outlawed is BS, get real. Please cite your reason for saying this and please try to back it up with some facts, otherwise, it’s total emotional BS.

Pro Lifeisn’t a belief, it’s science, pro choice is a belief system, the selfish belief that the only one that matters in the world is one’s self, no matter what. That one can do whatever what one wants to do and not have to worry or deal with the consequences because there’s always something that will alleviate them of the responsibility of their actions. They believe that they are the center of the universe and that everything should revolve around them, and if they have to destroy another life in order to be that center of universe then so be it.

You can say that pro life is a belief, it’s a belief in science and the fact that a baby in the womb is a life, from the moment of conception. So, both are actually belief’s, it just depends on how you look at it.

Funny how the pro choice secular people rail against the pro life movement as religious zealots for not believing in science when they themselves ignore the science.

 

[GW8345]

I agree that not all protestors for this cause are religious but my point was there are different beliefs on when it is considered life. I used the religious fanatic example because the catholic church teaches that life begins at conception.

Funny, so does science.

 

[pelers]

And your generalization that “most hard core protestors” would want contraception to be outlawed is BS, get real. Please cite your reason for saying this and please try to back it up with some facts, otherwise, it’s total emotional BS.

Well, depending on your definition of conception... Is it when sperm meets egg? Is it when egg attaches to the uterus wall? Because most forms of birth control work by preventing that attachment.

Could somebody link a video to the "Every Sperm is Sacred" song from Monty Python?

 

[bilbur]

If life doesn’t start at conception then how is it that a one cell ameba is considered a life form?

How is a sponge a life form, it does not have a heartbeat.

And your generalization that “most hard core protestors” would want contraception to be outlawed is BS, get real. Please cite your reason for saying this and please try to back it up with some facts, otherwise, it’s total emotional BS.

Pro Lifeisn’t a belief, it’s science, pro choice is a belief system, the selfish belief that the only one that matters in the world is one’s self, no matter what. That one can do whatever what one wants to do and not have to worry or deal with the consequences because there’s always something that will alleviate them of the responsibility of their actions. They believe that they are the center of the universe and that everything should revolve around them, and if they have to destroy another life in order to be that center of universe then so be it.

You can say that pro life is a belief, it’s a belief in science and the fact that a baby in the womb is a life, from the moment of conception. So, both are actually belief’s, it just depends on how you look at it.

Funny how the pro choice secular people rail against the pro life movement as religious zealots for not believing in science when they themselves ignore the science.

I was raised catholic and know what their beliefs are. When the morning after pill came out there were massive protests and they tried to get it outlawed. I also know that the main belief is that sex is used strictly for procreation so the use of contraception goes against that belief and is viewed no different than masturbation which is also a no-no in the eyes of the church. You are also correct that there are single celled organisms and other life forms without a hart but my question to you is do you think twice about stepping on or killing them? This is why this is a belief, there are two differing opinions which means that I believe something and you believe something different. Abortion is not in all cases a selfish act, would you force a woman to go full term if it would probably kill her? If yes then you are placing more worth on an organized group of cells than on a living, breathing, person. That sounds pretty selfish to me to risk a person’s life to prove a point.

 

[Jbeckman]

Really? Care to share the numbers with us? Because orphanages are no longer a part of the adoption system in the United States - for all intents and purposes, they no longer exist in this country. A very few still exist, but they're pretty much extinct.

So as far as bull#### arguments, you pulled this one out of your ass.

If you've ever tried to adopt a child, you'd know already that demand for children far exceeds supply, at least in terms of healthy newborns. I have, I've adopted two, on my third and many of my friends and family have adopted. It was wonderful to my ears to hear my daughter say she wants to adopt children when she grows up.

That said, there are a LOT of children in the foster care system who need homes. Foster care is different from babies given up for adoption - in most instances, these are children who do have living parents who, for whatever reason, are no longer able - or permitted - to continue to raise them. Most of these children are NOT babies (in fact, average age is well into school age), so they're really not pertinent to the discussion. If unwanted babies were given up for adoption, the demand for them would easily absorb them; it's THAT high.

So you know what? The argument DOES hold up to scrutiny. YOUR argument is the one that doesn't.

There are orphanages in US - many may be called children's homes and many children up for adoption wait it out, moving often from family to family in CPS or foster homes.

Corazón de Vida - USA
Covenant Ranch - USA
Angel Guardian Orphanage AGO Hangout - USA
Angel Guardian Orphanage - USA
McClelland Children's Home (now School)- USA
Goodland Presbyterian Children's Home - USA
Buckner Children's Home - USA
St. Joseph's Village Rockleigh - USA
St. Joseph Orphanage - USA
Rose of Sharon Association - USA
Oxford Orphanage - USA
Florida Baptist Children's Homes - USA
High Plains Children's Home - USA
His House Children's Home - USA
Presbyterian Children's Homes and Services - USA
Orphan Foundation of America (OFA) - USA
Milton Hershey School - USA
Arkansas Baptist Children's Homes - USA
Baptist Children's Homes of North Carolina - USA
Bellewood Presbyterian Homes for Children - USA
Bethel Bible Village Children's Home - USA
The Palmer Home for Children - USA
Unite The World (penpal service) - USA
Charleston Orphan House - USA (former orphanage)

 

[GW8345]

Well, depending on your definition of conception... Is it when sperm meets egg? Is it when egg attaches to the uterus wall? Because most forms of birth control work by preventing that attachment.

Could somebody link a video to the "Every Sperm is Sacred" song from Monty Python?

The scientific definition

The formation of a zygote resulting from the union of a sperm and egg cell; fertilization.

conception - Science Definition

So basically, when sprem meets egg

 

[Radiant1]

I agree that not all protestors for this cause are religious but my point was there are different beliefs on when it is considered life. I used the religious fanatic example because the catholic church teaches that life begins at conception.

Yeah, so? There are non-religious bodies/persons that believe life begins at conception as well (including some atheists btw) and, Catholic or not, such a belief does not necessarily equate to fanaticism. Just sayin'.

 

[bilbur]

Yeah, so? There are non-religious bodies/persons that believe life begins at conception as well (including some atheists btw) and, Catholic or not, such a belief does not necessarily equate to fanaticism. Just sayin'.

Again I agree, I was just using a known example. If I say McDonalds has cheese burgers that does not mean there is no other place that has cheese burgers it is just an example of a place everyone knows has them.

 

[GW8345]

I was raised catholic and know what their beliefs are. When the morning after pill came out there were massive protests and they tried to get it outlawed. I also know that the main belief is that sex is used strictly for procreation so the use of contraception goes against that belief and is viewed no different than masturbation which is also a no-no in the eyes of the church. You are also correct that there are single celled organisms and other life forms without a hart but my question to you is do you think twice about stepping on or killing them? This is why this is a belief, there are two differing opinions which means that I believe something and you believe something different. Abortion is not in all cases a selfish act, would you force a woman to go full term if it would probably kill her? If yes then you are placing more worth on an organized group of cells than on a living, breathing, person. That sounds pretty selfish to me to risk a person’s life to prove a point.

That is the Catholic Church; the Catholic Church is not the entire pro life movement. I’m pro life and I’m not Catholic. So you are stereotyping the pro life movement on the actions of the Catholic Church, talk about using a broad brush.

Obviously you have not been following what I’ve been saying for the past five days. Please go back and read my posts and you will see that I do support abortion in the cases where the mother’s life is at risk, in the case of rape/incest and if the child will be born with major birth defects.

 

[MMM_donuts]

Again I agree, I was just using a known example. If I say McDonalds has cheese burgers that does not mean there is no other place that has cheese burgers it is just an example of a place everyone knows has them.

Dude, just so you know that someone does, I get what you're saying.

 

[bilbur]

That is the Catholic Church; the Catholic Church is not the entire pro life movement. I’m pro life and I’m not Catholic. So you are stereotyping the pro life movement on the actions of the Catholic Church, talk about using a broad brush.

Obviously you have not been following what I’ve been saying for the past five days. Please go back and read my posts and you will see that I do support abortion in the cases where the mother’s life is at risk, in the case of rape/incest and if the child will be born with major birth defects.

I am using the catholic church because they are some of the most vocal on this point and if you are in favor of abortion for rape/incest or birth defect than you have different beliefs than their strict beliefs. Their stance is no abortion under any circumstances. So who is right? My belief differs from yours and yours differs from the extremists which means this is a belief and everyone is entitled to their own opinions on the subject.

I have gotten off track from my original argument on the subject which was that it was wrong for these protestors to show offensive imagery in a public place. I could care less what someones beliefs are, my beliefs are mine and yours are yours but there is a way to protest and get the word out without offending people and their children.

 

[Goldenhawk]

Because most forms of birth control work by preventing that attachment.

Huh?

You're not even CLOSE to correct. If you'd said "emergency birth control", MAYBE.

Instead, a quick science lesson is in order here. MOST forms of birth control prevent live sperm from meeting the egg. Condoms and other barrier methods block sperm. Spermicides kill the sperm. Vasectomies prevent the sperm from release. "Getting her tubes tied" blocks the egg from release. "The pill" prevents the egg from being released in the first place, by interfering with the menstual cycle.

Typically, the Catholics are the ones who object to ALL forms of birth control, and I have seen hints that policy may actually be changing under the new Pope.

In fact, the only form of birth control to which MOST Christians object is so-called "emergency birth control" methods, AKA the "morning after pill", which DO prevent the implantation of a fertilized egg. A majority (not all) Christians believe that life begins at conception, when the egg and sperm meet, and thus they believe that emergency birth control methods actually amount to abortion - just not as graphic and ugly as the recent protest was depicting.

Please keep the facts straight.

 

[inkah]

This is a belief. The religious fanatics say that life starts at conception. I disagree and say that life doesn't start until there is a heartbeat which is around week 5 I think. Some people may not consider it life until a point after that even. This is why this is a belief, if it were up to most of the hard core protestors they would even outlaw the morning after pill and all other forms of contraception. Where would we be then? We would be so over populated that the country would go broke unless the religious can make that whole abstinence thing sound cool.

I hate using slurs in a "discussion", but you are a bit clueless aren't you? I'd say you have some research to do if you legitimately think the children in those photographs are 5 week old in-utero babies. Let me know what you find...

 

[inkah]

I have gotten off track from my original argument on the subject which was that it was wrong for these protestors to show offensive imagery in a public place. QUOTE]

I am glad we are back on topic.

I say you (and the "choice" community in general) are shifting your focus from the FACTS at hand (babies are being brutally dismembered in the womb via abortion) to focus on a "lesser" crime (my child may have seen a gross picture and I don't know how to deal with that) in order to divert attention from the fact that the people you support with your so-called agenda for "choice" are committing attrocious crimes against innocent children. You villianize another in the hopes that nobody will notice your own offenses.

We see this phenomenon on the elementary school playground by bullies all the time. ie: "OMYGAWD HE PICKED HIS NOSE, LETS BEAT HIM UP!!!!". Most grownups understand that while nose picking is icky, it does NOT warrant a beat down and will discipline the bully.

For some reason this concept is SOOO much harder for us to grasp when big money is involved.

My guess is that the shift is intentional and those of you falling for it are suckers.

WAKE UP!

 

[inkah]

Huh?

"The pill" prevents the egg from being released in the first place, by interfering with the menstual cycle.

QUOTE]

Not sure this is always true. I don't know the specific science of all pills, but I've always understood that "the pill" prevents implantation of a fertilized egg, or at least that some do, some of the time.

 

[migtig]

Huh?

"The pill" prevents the egg from being released in the first place, by interfering with the menstual cycle.

QUOTE]

Not sure this is always true. I don't know the specific science of all pills, but I've always understood that "the pill" prevents implantation of a fertilized egg, or at least that some do, some of the time.

If you aren't sure, always look it up:

Birth control pills, or oral contraceptives, contain hormones that suppress ovulation. During ovulation an egg is released from the ovaries, without ovulation there is no egg to be fertilized and pregnancy cannot occur.
How Does the Birth Control Pill Work?

 

[MMM_donuts]

Huh?

You're not even CLOSE to correct. If you'd said "emergency birth control", MAYBE.

Instead, a quick science lesson is in order here. MOST forms of birth control prevent live sperm from meeting the egg. Condoms and other barrier methods block sperm. Spermicides kill the sperm. Vasectomies prevent the sperm from release. "Getting her tubes tied" blocks the egg from release. "The pill" prevents the egg from being released in the first place, by interfering with the menstual cycle.

Typically, the Catholics are the ones who object to ALL forms of birth control, and I have seen hints that policy may actually be changing under the new Pope.

In fact, the only form of birth control to which MOST Christians object is so-called "emergency birth control" methods, AKA the "morning after pill", which DO prevent the implantation of a fertilized egg. A majority (not all) Christians believe that life begins at conception, when the egg and sperm meet, and thus they believe that emergency birth control methods actually amount to abortion - just not as graphic and ugly as the recent protest was depicting.

Please keep the facts straight.

ALL forms of hormonal birth control use an inhospitable uterine environment as a back up method to their primary form of pregnancy prevention. ALL OF THEM. I can provide data to back that claim. We all know that birth control sometimes fails so we can deduce that there are occurances when hormonal birth control also acts by not allowing a fertilized egg to implant in the uterus. In fact, some birth control pills can also be used as a morning after pill.

Again, all hormonal birth control methods - the pill, the IUD that uses hormones, the arm implant, and the shot - all have this function as a secondary method of preventing pregnancy.

That's why there are groups of people that refuse hormonal birth control. To them, life begins when an egg and sperm meet and the hormonal birth control runs the risk of preventing them from properly implanting so they consider it an abortion.