Food for thought

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
...
http://www.john-ross.net/mistakes.htm

ROSS IN RANGE
Mistakes We Make in the Gun Culture, or
How to Be a More Effective Advocate for Freedom
By John Ross

Copyright 2003-2005 by John Ross. Electronic reproduction of this
article freely permitted provided it is reproduced in its entirety
with attribution given

This is a piece I wrote a couple years ago, and I still get regular
requests for it. Might as well put it on Ross In Range.

One of the biggest mistakes that freedom advocates make is we often
fail to take the moral high ground on freedom issues, and we let our
enemies define the terms. This is a huge mistake. Never forget: We
are in the right on this issue. We are on the side of the Founding
Fathers. They are on the side of Hitler, Stalin, Mao Tse-Tung, Pol
Pot, Saddam Hussein, and every other leader of an oppressive,
totalitarian regime.

Let me give some common examples I've often heard when Second
Amendment advocates debate gun control supporters:

THEY SAY: "We'd be better off if no one had guns."

WE SAY: "You can never succeed at that, criminals will always get
guns." (FLAW: the implication here is that if you could succeed at
eliminating all guns, it would be a reasonable plan.)

WE SHOULD SAY: "So, you want to institute a system where the weak
and elderly are at the mercy of the strong, the lone are at the
mercy of the gang. You want to give violent criminals a government
guarantee that citizens are disarmed. Sorry, that's unacceptable.
Better we should require every citizen to carry a gun."

THEY SAY: "Those assault rifles have no sporting purpose. You don't
need a 30-round magazine for hunting deer--they're only for killing
people."

WE SAY: "I compete in DCM High Power with my AR-15. You need a large-
capacity magazine for their course of fire. My SKS is a fine deer
rifle, and I've never done anything to give my government reason not
to trust me blah blah blah." (FLAW: You have implicitly conceded
that it is OK to ban any gun with no sporting use. And eventually
they can replace your sporting arms with arcade-game substitutes.)

WE SHOULD SAY: "Your claim that `they're only for killing people' is
imprecise. A gas chamber or electric chair is designed for killing
people, and these devices obviously serve different functions than
guns. To be precise, a high-capacity, military-type rifle or handgun
is designed for conflict. When I need to protect myself and my
freedom, I want the most reliable, most durable, highest-capacity
weapon possible. The only thing hunting and target shooting have to
do with freedom is that they're good practice."

THEY SAY: "If we pass this License-To-Carry law, it will be like the
Wild West, with shootouts all the time for fender-benders, in bars,
etc. We need to keep guns off the streets. If doing so saves just
one life, it will be worth it."

WE SAY: "Studies have shown blah blah blah" (FLAW: You have implied
that if studies showed License-To-Carry laws equaled more heat-of-
passion shootings, Right-To-Carry should be illegal.)

WE SHOULD SAY: "Although no state has experienced what you are
describing, that's not important. What is important is our freedom.
If saving lives is more important than the Constitution, why don't
we throw out the Fifth Amendment? We have the technology to
administer an annual truth serum session to the entire population.
We'd catch the criminals and mistaken arrest would be a thing of the
past. How does that sound?"

THEY SAY: "I don't see what the big deal is about a five day waiting
period."

WE SAY: "It doesn't do any good, criminals don't wait five days,
it's a waste of resources blah blah blah." (FLAW: You have implied
that if waiting periods did reduce crime, they would be a good idea.)

WE SHOULD SAY: "Shall we apply your logic to the First Amendment
along with the Second? How about a 24-hour cooling-off period with a
government review board before the news is reported? Wouldn't that
prevent lives from being ruined, e.g. Richard Jewell? And the fact
that this law applies to people who already own a handgun tells me
that it's not about crime prevention, it's about harassment.
Personally, I want to live in a free society, not a `safe' one with
the government as chief nanny."

THEY SAY: "In 1776, citizens had muskets. No one ever envisioned
these deadly AK-47s. I suppose you think we should all have Atomic
bombs."

WE SAY: "Uh, well, uh..."

WE SHOULD SAY: "Actually, the Founders discussed this very issue--
it's in the Federalist Papers. They wanted the citizens to have the
same guns as were the issue weapons of soldiers in a modern
infantry. Soldiers in 1776 each had muskets, but not the large field
pieces that fired exploding shells. In 2005, soldiers are each
individually issued M16s, M249s, etc. but not atomic bombs.
Furthermore, according to your logic, the laws governing free speech
and freedom of the press are only valid for newspapers whose presses
are hand-operated and use fixed type. After all, no one in 1776
foresaw offset printing or electricity, let alone TV, satellite
transmission, FAXes, and the Internet."

THEY SAY: "We require licenses on cars, but the powerful NRA screams
bloody murder if anyone ever suggests licensing these dangerous
weapons."

WE SAY: Nothing, usually, and just sit there looking dumb.

WE SHOULD SAY: "You know, driving is a luxury, whereas firearms
ownership is a right secured by the Constitution. But let's put that
aside for a moment. It's interesting you compared guns and vehicles.
Here in the U.S. you can at any age go into any state and buy as
many motorcycles, cars, or trucks of any size you want, and you
don't need to do anything if you don't use them on public property.
No license at all. If you do want to use them on public property,
you can get a license at age 16. This license is good in all 50
states. No waiting periods, no background checks, nothing. If we
treated guns like cars, a fourteen-year-old could go into any state
and legally buy handguns, machine guns, cannons, whatever, cash and
carry, and shoot them all with complete legality on private
property. And at age 16 he could get a state license good anywhere
in the country to shoot these guns on public property. Sounds great
to me."

FINAL COMMENT, useful with most all arguments:

YOU SAY: "You know, I'm amazed at how little you care about your
grandchildren. I would have thought they meant more to you than
anything."

THEY SAY: "Hunh?"

YOU SAY: "Well, passing this proposal won't have a big immediate
effect. I mean, in the next couple of years, neither George W. Bush
nor Hillary Clinton is going to open up internment camps for
Americans like Roosevelt did sixty-odd years ago. But think of your
worst nightmare of a political leader. Isn't it possible that a
person like that might be in control here some time in the next 30,
40, or 50 years, with 51% of the Congress and 51% of the Senate
behind him or her? If that does happen, do you really want your
grandchildren to have been stripped of their final guarantee of
freedom? And do you really want them to have been stripped of it by
you?

Let me know if any of these points make you more effective the next
time a "gun control" advocate starts in on his favorite subject.

John Ross 9/14/05
 
B

Bruzilla

Guest
Whenever someone brings up the issue of why I would want or need an assault rifle since their's no legitimate need for one to go huntng, I just tell them I don't go hunting and there's no legitimate need for any car to go more than 70 MPH, so why do we need cars that exceed the speed limit? Because we want them right? If it's a woman I'll ask why do we need decorator plates that hang on a wall. Plates are meant for eating off of aren't they?

I just went to a gun show last weekend and bought two AR-15 stripped receivers for $180. I told the dealer that I was going to build up the receivers into a pre-ban AR-15A2 configuration and an M-4 carbine configuration. Four people who were nearby came up to me and asked if I could build them a rifle, and if so how much would it cost. I told them that they would have to buy the receiver, and then I would build the rifle for the cost of the parts kit (around $435) plus $150 for labor, so they would get their rifle for about $700, which is about $300 cheaper than what most dealers are selling them for. Three guys bought receivers and I'll be building two more AR-15A2s and another M-4 once their parts kits come in next week. And that $450 I'll make will pay for the parts for one of my rifles. Thank goodness for American freedoms. :yay:
 

ylexot

Super Genius
Bruzilla said:
I just went to a gun show last weekend and bought two AR-15 stripped receivers for $180. I told the dealer that I was going to build up the receivers into a pre-ban AR-15A2 configuration and an M-4 carbine configuration. Four people who were nearby came up to me and asked if I could build them a rifle, and if so how much would it cost. I told them that they would have to buy the receiver, and then I would build the rifle for the cost of the parts kit (around $435) plus $150 for labor, so they would get their rifle for about $700, which is about $300 cheaper than what most dealers are selling them for. Three guys bought receivers and I'll be building two more AR-15A2s and another M-4 once their parts kits come in next week. And that $450 I'll make will pay for the parts for one of my rifles. Thank goodness for American freedoms. :yay:
Where do you get your parts kits from? I'm thinking that an AR-15 build will be my next project. I'll probably pick up a Fulton Armory lower next time I have to go to BWI (they are in that area). I was planning to do the build piece by piece, but it would be nice to compare against the parts kits. I might start with a kit and then upgrade over time.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
I just tell them...

Whenever someone brings up the issue of why I would want or need an assault rifle since their's no legitimate need for one to go huntng, I just tell them

..."So I can save your bacon after some maniac with a weapon chases your dumb azz over to my house."

Guns MADE people free.

Guns KEEP people free.

If you are disarmed you are a subject, not a citizen.

The repeated objections sent to King George were given a bit more attention when the muskets came out from behind the door.

I wish anti gun people would just say "I'd rather be a victim and you should to. That way, we don't have to think or do anything about it. It's just easier."
 
B

Bruzilla

Guest
ylexot said:
Where do you get your parts kits from? I'm thinking that an AR-15 build will be my next project. I'll probably pick up a Fulton Armory lower next time I have to go to BWI (they are in that area). I was planning to do the build piece by piece, but it would be nice to compare against the parts kits. I might start with a kit and then upgrade over time.

I get mine from model 1 sales (www.model1sales.com). I like this outfit because the sell the kit with the upper receiver completely assembled and headspaced, so all you have to worry about is the lower receiver. I built my first AR-15 with a parts kit from M&A Parts (www.m-aparts.com). They're a little more expensive but not much, and they also send the kit with the upper all assembled.

I don't recommend building these rifles in sections (upper receiver and lower receiver) as most upper receiver assemblies that you find for sale do not include the bolt, bolt carrier, and charging handle, which tacks on about another $100 to $150 to the price when you buy them seperately. These put you at about $100 for the lower receiver, $130 for the lower parts kit and buttstock, $300 for the upper receiver assembly, and call it $120 for the bolt carrier assembly... that brings the price to $650-$700.
 

awg9tech

New Member
Bruzilla said:
Whenever someone brings up the issue of why I would want or need an assault rifle since their's no legitimate need for one to go huntng, I just tell them I don't go hunting and there's no legitimate need for any car to go more than 70 MPH, so why do we need cars that exceed the speed limit? Because we want them right? If it's a woman I'll ask why do we need decorator plates that hang on a wall. Plates are meant for eating off of aren't they?

The car is the analogy that I use. When some one starts a rant about gun control I just ask for their car keys.

Want to save lives, clean up the environment, lower crime, get America physically fit? Then give up your “privilege” to drive. Nope, they're not willing to do that, hypocrites. It’s amazing that they would rather trample the rights of Americans.
 
D

dems4me

Guest
awg9tech said:
The car is the analogy that I use. When some one starts a rant about gun control I just ask for their car keys.

Want to save lives, clean up the environment, lower crime, get America physically fit? Then give up your “privilege” to drive. Nope, they're not willing to do that, hypocrites. It’s amazing that they would rather trample the rights of Americans.


:roflmao: : :lmao:
 
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