forced acceptance of homosexuality.

This_person

Well-Known Member
This doctor discriminating against the Lesbo's is no different than (as was posted) a restaurant stating it wont serve Blacks. Unless your stating that its perfectly valid in both cases your a hypocrite.
To many, it's not the same. Being black does not have any moral connotation to it, and the people who choose to not serve someone because of their skin color are just basically racist.

Being homosexual is not based upon a meaningless condition, but upon the actions of the homosexual. Whether it is a choice or a birth condition is not relevant, because it is the action that some people find against their morals, not the condition. Therefore, that argument is without merit. More along the lines of saying a restaraunt will not serve a drunk alcoholic, a store manager will not allow a known theif into their store, etc.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Doesnt matter, this is no different than stating Abortion is bad (because its a child) but i could live with Aborting the aftermath of a Rape (its still a child).

If you feel you can not treat someoen based on your Religious beliefs, then why would you treat them during life and death? what is the difference, as far as the argument is concerned? there is none

Your argument fails becaue your willing to set your beliefs aside during specific circumstances.
That was me, not BCP. And, I was not willing to set my beliefs aside, merely I was not allowing my beliefs to dictate what I believe the law should be. I was categorically stating my belief is that - even in the case of rape - abortion should not be allowed. However, since that portion of it is based upon my religious belief, I would compromise my belief for the law of all.

As for life saving vs. elective, a doctor takes an oath when becoming a practitioner. The job they choose determines what they will actually do (say, if they choose to work in the ER vs. in a private fertility practice). However, they are still doctors, and put on the spot in an accident, I would expect them to fullfill their hypocratic oath. In their practice, I would expect them to do whatever the hell they wanted that didn't explicitly harm someone - that's called freedom and responsibility working together.
 
T

toppick08

Guest
You really get off posting your mindless crap dont you? Whats wrong bills a little tight so your making sure you kiss up to your Premo's?
This doctor discriminating against the Lesbo's is no different than (as was posted) a restaurant stating it wont serve Blacks. Unless your stating that its perfectly valid in both cases your a hypocrite.

My point is if your in the business of serving the Public, which the Doctor was in this case, you can not discriminate. Someone posted BJ's, they are a private club.

:pete:

:lmao:
 

bcp

In My Opinion
According to you, someone who provides a Public service is able to discriminate. The Drunk, by definition isnt able to reason, the store manager has a reasonable expectation that the thief will do harm. Can the Doctor who performs a public service, also discriminate becaue the patient is Jewish, Muslim or Black?

The doctor, is the one acting in this case. The lesbo's werent in the study doing their thing, they went to have a service performed. One the Doctor provides to the public. The Doctor refused service based on a religious belief if the Doctors practice was in a church, there 'might' have been a valid argument.
The doctor in this case being a Christian Family center, had a right to follow his religious belief when dealing with his clients.
His objection was not because the lesbos were doing their thing in his office, but more because his belief does not allow him to place a child in what he sees as a possibly harmful environment to be rasied in.

He was looking out for the welfare of the future child over that of the lesbos desire to pretend to be a family.
 

bcp

In My Opinion
by the way, just to clear things up.
Where is it written that it is a right to have a child in any way other than how nature intended people to have it?
he did not violate their rights. And I would be willing to bet that they were not the first to be denied his services, and services could be denied for other reasons.
I bet, if a normal couple walked in and professed their love for Satan, and expressed their desire to raise their child in a Satanly way, he would deny them based on their religious beliefs.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
According to you, someone who provides a Public service is able to discriminate. The Drunk, by definition isnt able to reason, the store manager has a reasonable expectation that the thief will do harm. Can the Doctor who performs a public service, also discriminate becaue the patient is Jewish, Muslim or Black?
"A reasonable expectation that the theif will do harm....." Think about that for a little bit, then put yourself in the doctor's shoes (thinking as the doctor does, not as you do):lol:

Can the doctor discriminate in their private practice? Certainly! Why not? I wouldn't personally go to a doctor who does that, and I know very few people who would. Given that, I presume the doctor would probably fail, and have to change their practice. However, that's their choice, not mine. My choice would be to not go there.
The doctor, is the one acting in this case. The lesbo's werent in the study doing their thing, they went to have a service performed. One the Doctor provides to the public. The Doctor refused service based on a religious belief if the Doctors practice was in a church, there 'might' have been a valid argument.
The doctor, IMO, can refuse service to anyone they want, any time they want, because they are not providing a necessary service. They are not a government body. They are private people acting on behalf of their own needs and desires. I'm a fat, middle-aged white guy. If I went into an all black bar, and they refused me service, I would feel it was their right to do so, with the full knowledge that they lost my money. This doctor lost their money. No one was hurt, so why is there a problem?
 

Xaquin44

New Member
I want to know what religion will let you poke around in a womans vagina .... unless she's a lesbian?

never heard that one before
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
I want to know what religion will let you poke around in a womans vagina .... unless she's a lesbian?

never heard that one before
A question out of the blue having no bearing on the discussion. Why would you want to know this?

Or, are you trying to minimize a doctor's abilities by referring to a fertility specialist as "poking around a woman's vagina", and minimizing someone's moral objection by merely saying they can't do their job "if she's a lesbian"?

Because, if that's all you're doing, you're doing a great disservice to the your point of view by reducing a serious discussion to such a mind numbingly inappropriate level.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
No, if it is valid for Religious beliefs to trump a persons rights, which you are arguing, then the circumstances do not matter.
Actually, I'm arguing that a doctor has the right to pick and choose their clients regardless of reason. She could have a funny body odor, or the doc just doesn't want another patient, or the staff laughs at her, or..... My argument is that the doc has the right to deny a patient non-emergency service at will, as the doc is in a private practice, not a public (government) practice.
If it is valid for a doctor to NOT perform a service, because it is against their religious beliefs, then it is equally valid for the doctor to NOT perform a lifesaving operation because of those same beliefs. I agree its reprehensible, but otherwise it would be no different than a Parent withholding lifesaving medical treatment, for a child who has a treatable disease, solely because it was against their religous beliefs.

cant have it both ways.
Perhaps someone in the medical field can correct me on this, but it's my understanding that if a child presents himself to a doctor without parent, and medical services are necessary for life saving, there is an implied consent and the doctor may perform those life saving actions. If the child presents himself without a life threatening illness/injury then the doctor must wait for consent from a parent/guardian.

Similarly, if a doctor takes a job in an ER, the doctor is implying consent to work on anyone who comes to the door and meets the requirements of the hospital for service. If a doctor is in private practice, they may pick and choose their clients. Therefore, in an emergency room situation, the doctor has already chosen (implied his/her consent) to work on people even if they are morally reprehensible to the doctor. In private practice, they're choosing to NOT give that consent.

I'm not sure how any of this relates to parental consent being withheld for religious reasons. Could you draw me that line?
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
That...

Actually, I'm arguing that a doctor has the right to pick and choose their clients regardless of reason. She could have a funny body odor, or the doc just doesn't want another patient, or the staff laughs at her, or..... My argument is that the doc has the right to deny a patient non-emergency service at will, as the doc is in a private practice, not a public (government) practice.


...makes no sense, at all, that YOU want government to be able to pick and choose when it can make someone provide a service.

What if the doctor figures the person is a goner and life saving attempts are a waste of time and resources? Is that decision up to we, the people while all others are not? What if they don't like the persons religion? Or their sexual habits? Or their favorite football team? How do you make exceptions to what you argue is some sort of preeminent right of choice all the rest of the time?

Simple public accommodation and common sense dictates that if a society has the right to regulate and oversee commerce from a simple standpoint of basic rules and regulations, evenly applied, then there is a societal expectation that someone wishing to do business, under those conditions can, at the very least, leave their personal beliefs over who has the 'right' to their services at home along with their faith.

You people are embarrassing yourselves by asserting a right to discrimination for all and any reasons, to take us back over 140 years of societal evolution in order to justify and cover up your own fears and dislikes based on the private sexual practices of a given person.

Based on your arguments, a business has a right to discriminate based on every single sin and offense to God in the Bible without question, without argument. You seek to throw out the baby and the bathwater based on one specific piece of dirt, as you see it, in that water that holds particular offense to your sensibilities, never mind that it doesn't have one thing to do with your own right to life, liberty and your pursuit of happiness.
 

bcp

In My Opinion
Larry, people spend more energy making sure their puppies are going to good homes than you are willing to give a doctor to make the same decision about putting a child in a good home.

How about the woman that killed her child and drove around with the rotting body in the car trunk, should the doctor be obligated to impregnate her is she asks and has the money?
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
You sit...

Larry, people spend more energy making sure their puppies are going to good homes than you are willing to give a doctor to make the same decision about putting a child in a good home.

How about the woman that killed her child and drove around with the rotting body in the car trunk, should the doctor be obligated to impregnate her is she asks and has the money?

...there and blow up your own argument and don't even see it.

Is this where we are now? Not only can this amazing doctor see into the future as to how horrible this little child's life would be suffering the doom of being raised by a lesbian, but he can also see into the hearts and minds of the hetero community and see future evil as well. That's one heck of a religion he's got there, dontcha think? Can we put him in charge of foreign policy, too? The current religious people we have now have a faulty crystal ball.

That's amazing. Simply amazing.
 

bcp

In My Opinion
...there and blow up your own argument and don't even see it.

Is this where we are now? Not only can this amazing doctor see into the future as to how horrible this little child's life would be suffering the doom of being raised by a lesbian, but he can also see into the hearts and minds of the hetero community and see future evil as well. That's one heck of a religion he's got there, dontcha think? Can we put him in charge of foreign policy, too? The current religious people we have now have a faulty crystal ball.

That's amazing. Simply amazing.
I would not have wanted to been raised by lesbians or humpers.
I expect that the good doctor can see enough to realize that he would be condeming this child to an alternative childhood filled with ridicule and confusion.
I think he made the right choice, gays should not be allowed to raise children.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
That's...

I would not have wanted to been raised by lesbians or humpers.
I expect that the good doctor can see enough to realize that he would be condeming this child to an alternative childhood filled with ridicule and confusion.
I think he made the right choice, gays should not be allowed to raise children.

...not the issue here, now is it? He sent her off to someone else who would do it. All he is against is HIM providing his services to lesbians. That makes him complicit in her getting the service she sought.

The only ridicule and confusion a child raised by lesbians is going to confront is from people like you who think they've been condemned.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
...makes no sense, at all, that YOU want government to be able to pick and choose when it can make someone provide a service.
When something is a life-saving issue, I do believe there is a "general welfare" provision in the constitution that gives the federal government oversight into such an issue. When it's whether or not someone's teeth are whitened, or they can be inseminated, or they get a latte from the store of their choice, I see (personally) no such "general welfare" that would put the government into play.
What if the doctor figures the person is a goner and life saving attempts are a waste of time and resources? Is that decision up to we, the people while all others are not? What if they don't like the persons religion? Or their sexual habits? Or their favorite football team? How do you make exceptions to what you argue is some sort of preeminent right of choice all the rest of the time?

Simple public accommodation and common sense dictates that if a society has the right to regulate and oversee commerce from a simple standpoint of basic rules and regulations, evenly applied, then there is a societal expectation that someone wishing to do business, under those conditions can, at the very least, leave their personal beliefs over who has the 'right' to their services at home along with their faith.

You people are embarrassing yourselves by asserting a right to discrimination for all and any reasons, to take us back over 140 years of societal evolution in order to justify and cover up your own fears and dislikes based on the private sexual practices of a given person.

Based on your arguments, a business has a right to discriminate based on every single sin and offense to God in the Bible without question, without argument. You seek to throw out the baby and the bathwater based on one specific piece of dirt, as you see it, in that water that holds particular offense to your sensibilities, never mind that it doesn't have one thing to do with your own right to life, liberty and your pursuit of happiness.
You're mistaking the reason of discrimination for the reason discrimination should be allowed. If we truly are a free society, a capitalist society, then anyone has the right to build or destroy their business as they see fit.

I would not go to a store or restaraunt that denied service based on race, gender, sexual orientation, etc., etc. I doubt you would, either. Therefore, if a place of business chose that avenue, they would probably go under. That's freedom - freedom to succeed or fail all on your own. I really don't care what the reason is this doc decided not to serve this customer. I just believe a business has the right to deny service as they see fit. I do not believe the government has the right to deny service as they see fit, as they are BY THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE, AND OF THE PEOPLE. Target is not. Target is a private organization. Should they choose to only serve pretty young black girls in short skirts, they have that right. And, they have the right to fail. And, if you're a pretty young girl in a short skirt, you have the right to recognize that would be a stupid, discriminatory, abhorant action on Target's part, and not frequent the store.

I do not see the constitutional authority for the government to tell me who, as a business owner, I have to provide my product/services to. Unless there is a compelling "general welfare" component (say, an ER doctor, an electricity provider, a single grocery store within hundreds of miles, etc., etc.), I see no authority nor reason for the law/government to be involved at all.

If you want the government to ensure private social equality for all, forced upon people, I think you're in the wrong. That's all.
 

bcp

In My Opinion
Pretty young black girls in short skirts, I'm thinking Target! :lmao:

under no circumstance should you attempt this type of hunting at Wal-Mart in Bowie, you will find the short skirt, but the black girl/woman inside of that skirt is going to weigh in at 300# min.
 

Nonno

Habari Na Mijeldi
under no circumstance should you attempt this type of hunting at Wal-Mart in Bowie, you will find the short skirt, but the black girl/woman inside of that skirt is going to weigh in at 300# min.

Hmmmm, I'll keep that in mind!
 

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