"Ghost guns"

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
What exactly are those, and how do they work? I can't imagine that a completely plastic gun would be an effective weapon. Do they use plastic bullets as well?

The hysteria of the Dems tells me that it's a fat load of chit, because typically the louder and more hyperbolic they are, the dumber the issue is. But I'm still interested in what we're talking about here.
 

Kyle

Beloved Misanthrope
What exactly are those, and how do they work? I can't imagine that a completely plastic gun would be an effective weapon. Do they use plastic bullets as well?

The hysteria of the Dems tells me that it's a fat load of chit, because typically the louder and more hyperbolic they are, the dumber the issue is. But I'm still interested in what we're talking about here.

Ghost gun is a scary tag they've given to people building their own rifles rather than buying a serialized, cataloged firearm from an FFL.

It's not illegal. There is nothing nefarious about it nor is it a practice in the criminal realm.

It's nothing different than them tagging every modern rifle and "Assault Rifle" to scare people.
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
You are getting terms mixed up and conflated...so are most of the media idiots too, though.

So-called "ghost guns" are very simply those that are "home built" by firearms enthusiasts, amateur gunsmiths etc. They wre coined "ghost guns" by some on the left simply because they are not required to have any identifying markings or registration. Hence, for all intents and purposes related to any government or law enforcement agency, the guns do not exist. Hence..."ghost guns".

Building completely 100% plastic guns that can chamber real ammunition is just silliness being spread around, very few examples exist and they were purely novelties... Now that said, there are 3D printing technologies that could come real close, but ironically, the one that has the greatest chance of achieving a serviceable firearm prints using a metal powder and is hugely expensive....not to mention the result is legal with respect to the Undetectable Firearms Act. LOL


Edit: Kyle types faster than I do. ;-p
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Ghost gun is a scary tag they've given to people building their own rifles rather than buying a serialized, cataloged firearm from an FFL.

It's not illegal. There is nothing nefarious about it nor is it a practice in the criminal realm.

It's nothing different than them tagging every modern rifle and "Assault Rifle" to scare people.

What they're talking about is putting out the blueprints to make a gun with a 3D printer. The gun would have to be made entirely out of plastic, right?

The Dems are acting like any thug on the street can afford to buy one of those machines and the materials, I'm guessing because they're banking on the ignorance of their constituents. Those machines are super expensive, and it's not like guns aren't readily available to them for a much cheaper price.

But supposedly the outcry is because plastic guns can be taken through airport security, etc. The problem with that is that in order to hijack a plane with a plastic gun, you'd have to have real bullets, and those are made out of metal.

Am I dumb or is it them?
 

nutz

Well-Known Member
What exactly are those, and how do they work? I can't imagine that a completely plastic gun would be an effective weapon. Do they use plastic bullets as well?

The hysteria of the Dems tells me that it's a fat load of chit, because typically the louder and more hyperbolic they are, the dumber the issue is. But I'm still interested in what we're talking about here.
originally coined for homemade firearms that did not have a serial number. This is a legal practice (although frowned upon)under the national firearms act for personal build and same person use.

Ghost Gun sounds scary, Assault weapon sounds scary...what makes headlines?
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
What they're talking about is putting out the blueprints to make a gun with a 3D printer. The gun would have to be made entirely out of plastic, right?

The Dems are acting like any thug on the street can afford to buy one of those machines and the materials, I'm guessing because they're banking on the ignorance of their constituents. Those machines are super expensive, and it's not like guns aren't readily available to them for a much cheaper price.

But supposedly the outcry is because plastic guns can be taken through airport security, etc. The problem with that is that in order to hijack a plane with a plastic gun, you'd have to have real bullets, and those are made out of metal.

Am I dumb or is it them?

A gun made entirely out of plastic would be illegal. If it was actually possible to do so... Bullets can be made without metal, but would be very ineffective at anything but very close range.
 

Kyle

Beloved Misanthrope
What they're talking about is putting out the blueprints to make a gun with a 3D printer. The gun would have to be made entirely out of plastic, right?

The Dems are acting like any thug on the street can afford to buy one of those machines and the materials, I'm guessing because they're banking on the ignorance of their constituents. Those machines are super expensive, and it's not like guns aren't readily available to them for a much cheaper price.

Thats exactly what they are counting on. No street thug is going to have the wherewithal or ambition to find, purchase and learn how to operate one of these things. More hyperventilation by the Democratic-Communists.

But supposedly the outcry is because plastic guns can be taken through airport security, etc. The problem with that is that in order to hijack a plane with a plastic gun, you'd have to have real bullets, and those are made out of metal.

Am I dumb or is it them?
it's not you. It will have to have critical metal components or as Gilligan said it'll blow up in your hand.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
it's not you. It will have to have critical metal components or as Gilligan said it'll blow up in your hand.

See, that's what I thought because guns are pieces of machinery with intricately working parts. I can't imagine you can just "print" a working gun; you'd have to print the parts of the gun, then put them together. Then you'd have to figure out how to get that plastic to be strong enough to fire a bullet without destroying itself.

But I frankly admit I don't know what I'm talking about, which is why I wanted to ask you all.
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
A gun made entirely out of plastic would be illegal. If it was actually possible to do so... Bullets can be made without metal, but would be very ineffective at anything but very close range.

The blueprints aren't illegal though. That's the issue that's being argued. The guy who is distributing these blueprints is providing a legal product to make an illegal thing. He is arguing that this is an infringement on his 1A rights.
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
The blueprints aren't illegal though. That's the issue that's being argued. The guy who is distributing these blueprints is providing a legal product to make an illegal thing. He is arguing that this is an infringement on his 1A rights.

Even the premise of that case (which he won) was total BS. 2D flat drawings and 3D models of many, many firearms have been available for a long time. The government went after that one guy as the "test case" to try and use ITAR as a lever to make dissemination of such models and drawings illegal. They failed to do so. None of that changes the simple fact that printing up a 3D firearm on your typical printer will create only something that will blow your hand off.

I posted this yesterday; it's a screen shot taken from a Solidworks viewport of a very accurate AR-15 lower 3D model that can be used to program a CNC machine or a 3D printer in a snap.

AR lower.jpg
 
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nutz

Well-Known Member
The blueprints aren't illegal though. That's the issue that's being argued. The guy who is distributing these blueprints is providing a legal product to make an illegal thing. He is arguing that this is an infringement on his 1A rights.

Is it really an illegal thing or is the expected intent illegal? To actually complete the 3d gun, the instructions have you add the required amount of metal prior to final assembly.

How to legally assemble the DD Liberator:
-Print (ONLY) the frame sideways (the shortest dimension is the Z axis). USC18 922(p)(2)(A)*: “For the purposes of this subsection (The Undetectable Firearms Act of 1988) – the term ‘firearm’ does not include the frame or receiver of any such weapon;”
Thus, you can legally print ONLY the frame entirely in plastic, even without 3.7 ounces of steel.-Once the frame is finished, epoxy a 1.19×1.19×0.99″ block of steel in the 1.2×1.2×1.0″ hole in front of the trigger guard. Add the bottom cover over the metal if you don’t want it to show.-Once the epoxy has tried, the steel is no longer removable, and is an integral part of the frame. Now your gun has ~6 ounces of steel and is thus considered a ‘detectable’ firearm. So now you can print all the other parts.
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
Look at it another way. Forget all the nonsense and hype about 3D plastic printing or the availability of any drawings or 3D product models:

A competent machinist working in a reasonably well-equipped machine shop could build a friggin' M134 minigun. But to do so would be, in almost all circumstances, illegal. ;-)
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
The Dems are acting like any thug on the street can afford to buy one of those machines and the materials, I'm guessing because they're banking on the ignorance of their constituents. Those machines are super expensive, and it's not like guns aren't readily available to them for a much cheaper price.

3D Printers sure ... but one can finish an 80% lower for an AR-15 with Jig and a Drill Press .....

its like going after AR-15s demonize something to scare people ... criminals are ALWAYS going to find away.


https://www.motherjones.com/politic...s-in-their-homes-driving-a-new-kind-of-crime/

Yet DIY guns are not exclusively built by the hobbyists and gun enthusiasts that helped me back then. The appeal of these guns is, in part, the enjoyment that comes from the build. But for some people, it’s also that they bear no serial numbers, and are, as a result, completely untraceable. No database and certainly no cop will ever know about them. That’s why this class of firearms is commonly referred to as “ghost guns.” And now, it’s becoming more and more clear that ghost guns also provide an avenue for criminals and individuals with mental illness or who are otherwise prohibited from owning guns to get them, undetected. Just last month, for instance, Kevin Janson Neal massacred five people and wounded nine others in Tehama County, California, using two semi-automatic rifles he built himself. A criminal protective order and a separate restraining order that had been placed on Neal in January—he was charged with assault with a deadly weapon after allegedly stabbing and beating two neighbors he held at gunpoint—meant Neal wouldn’t have passed a background check if he’d tried.

[clip]

Under federal law, building an unserialized gun is legal so long as it is intended for personal use and is not sold. And now building one is truly easier than ever; what once required hulking and expensive machinery and expertise can be accomplished with relative ease and on the cheap using tabletop mills and 3D printers. Everything a person would need can be freely purchased and sold online, no questions asked. And since the only part of a gun that does require a background check is the receiver, the companies that sell them have created workarounds by offering partially completed receivers. Known as “80 percent” lowers, or unfinished receivers, they don’t require checks or serial numbers, and they are manufactured so that all a person has to do is drill a few holes, make a few cuts and, depending on the type of gun, bend it into shape for it to be completed. What’s more, some milling machines, small enough to fit on the top of a desk, can now churn out unserialized receivers with just the push of a button.

In the scope of firearms-related crime, the percent committed using ghost guns still remain a statistical outlier, according to Tallman, also an adjunct professor at Colorado State University-Pueblo’s Center for the Study of Homeland Security. “Since 2008,” he says, “trace reports involving DIY crime guns have increased several fold, but the total number is still less than one percent of all gun crimes that are traced.” Tallman warns, though, that the problem is growing; crime connected to ghost guns “has become an increasing factor in the United States, and certainly other countries.”

While so far there have only been a few glaring, high-profile cases involving these firearms in the United States, each of them has resulted in a shocking massacre. In addition to Neal, in 2013, 23-year-old John Zawahri, who had been kept from purchasing a gun years earlier, used a homebuilt AR-15-style semi-automatic rifle in a rampage in Santa Monica, California, that left five dead. Meanwhile, authorities continue to find ghost guns when busting up trafficking rings. In September 2015, New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman called ghost guns “the new frontier of illegal firearms trafficking.”
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
Good stuff...

So, at least for now, Defense Distributed can’t distribute their files. But today’s order has zero effect on anyone else with access to those files, which have already been downloaded by thousand of people. So we’d like to do our part in helping to ensure that the signal reaches as many more people as possible.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/07/daniel-zimmerman/gun-controllers-politicians-and-judges-think-they-can-stop-the-free-flow-of-information-theyre-wrong/
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
yeah but not the average gang banger ...

Apparently in the UK garage machinists are cranking out SMG's

You seen the video clips of some of the "basement armament production" that was going on in Syria??? Mind boggling the guns they manufactured and the rates of ammo production they were achieving.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
You seen the video clips of some of the "basement armament production" that was going on in Syria??? Mind boggling the guns they manufactured and the rates of ammo production they were achieving.

no, but I have seen what gets made in dirt huts in the Kyber Pass BY HAND
 

black dog

Free America
You seen the video clips of some of the "basement armament production" that was going on in Syria??? Mind boggling the guns they manufactured and the rates of ammo production they were achieving.

Dillon progressive presses can deliver around the rounds per hour that the machines are numbered.
550, 650 and the 1050... Can run close to those numbers per hour.
The 1050 also can ream the primer crimp out of NATO 9MM,,,5.56,,,, 7.62x 51 and others if needed.
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
More misinformation and utter BS being bandied about...

https://www.manufacturing.net/news/2018/08/judge-blocks-release-blueprints-3d-printed-guns?et_cid=6413596&et_rid=45595864&location=top&et_cid=6413596&et_rid=45595864&linkid=toc_headline


With the only sane part buried at the bottom.

People can use the blueprints to manufacture plastic guns using a 3D printer. But industry experts have expressed doubts that criminals would go to the trouble, since the printers needed to make the guns can cost thousands of dollars, the guns themselves tend to disintegrate quickly and traditional firearms are easy to come by.
 
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