Global warming devastates...

[Bustem' Down]

The question was how many days over the last summer did we reach 100 degrees, all I did was answer it based on the OFFICIAL observations for DC. Yes I know that National airport has not always been the official reporting station but we somehow have records back to the late 1800's, is that an accurate guide? I guess it depends on how accurate we can be.

Look like the Climate Reference Network will help NCDC get a grip on observations.

Climate Reference Network

Yes, but scientists studying micro organisms locked in the antartic ice have been able to tell there have been periods of global warming and cooling over the course of history. In the grand scheme of geology, 100 years of data is miniscule.

 

[Larry Gude]

More like...

100 years of data is miniscule.

...irrelevent.

We could have an immense volcanic erruption tommorrow that would completely change global weather patterns for decades...and not be able to do one damn thing about it.

 

[truby20]

How many links do you want?

One from a reputable source is all that will be needed

 

[Larry Gude]

I'll guess the EPA is OK...

http://www.epa.gov/air/urbanair/ozone/what.html

Or perhaps...


http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/vi/publications/brochures/spot12.pdf

...Texas?

 

[vraiblonde]

it was an example of how human activity does affect the worldwide environment.

Okay, I'll say it:

Yeah? So? :shrug:

DID YOU KNOW that some of the biggest environutties are also the biggest polluters and CO2 emitters? It's true. Think about who has the biggest homes and the most travel (plane and car) activity. Now watch them tell you how "human activity" is bad for the planet.

If they really believed this, wouldn't they be more ecofriendly themselves?

Were you joking about hurricanes making ozone? (I hope so)

Obviously they do. You can smell it. All storms replenish ozone.

 

[FastCarsSpeed]

The best way to put this is yes Humans have affected the environment. But it seems as though mother nature has a way of coming in and kicking our asses to take care of some of the issues.

As humans we can be more responsible and I think that we have in some areas so as to try to correct some of the moronic things we have done in the last 100 years.

 

[Larry Gude]

And what to make of this?

http://usinfo.state.gov/gi/Archive/2005/Jun/10-43198.html

NASA-funded scientists from Florida State University looked at ozone around hurricanes and found that ozone levels drop as a hurricane is intensifying.

Hmmm...

 

[Larry Gude]

And when we screw up...

The best way to put this is yes Humans have affected the environment. But it seems as though mother nature has a way of coming in and kicking our asses to take care of some of the issues.

As humans we can be more responsible and I think that we have in some areas so as to try to correct some of the moronic things we have done in the last 100 years.

...nature takes care of it anyway.

Prince William Sound. Good as new.

We may get all upset at oil slicks and dying birds and ugly beaches but it don't mean a thing to Mother Nature. Blip in time. Blink and you miss it.

 

[SamSpade]

...irrelevent.

We could have an immense volcanic erruption tommorrow that would completely change global weather patterns for decades...and not be able to do one damn thing about it.

True. But those kinds of eruptions happen every few millenia. Even Mt St. Helens or Pinatubo didn't affect global climate that long. Even Krakatoa only affected world climate for a year or two. You're talking pre-dinosaur kind of volcanic activity - in which case, we wouldn't really be having this discussion, because we wouldn't exist.

I am skeptical that GLOBAL WARMING is caused by us. It doesn't hurt to be cautious, to measure it and apply our brains to the matter WITHOUT waiting for a few *millennia* of data "just to be sure". That's not science - that's collecting data. Unlike other experiments - we LIVE in this one. We can't afford to be wrong on it. We have to rely on other means of proving or disproving this before the "necessary" millennia of data comes in. Because if we wait that long, it will be too late.

It's not unlike the "smoking gun" argument regarding terrorists - if we wait until there IS a smoking gun - or, perhaps, a mushroom cloud - well, it's kind of LATE for that, right? There MUST be another means to prove or disprove the matter.

I'm against the crowd that has rushed to judgment on the issue. I find it laughable that the group that signed onto Kyoto has since found that its members aren't complying, and it hasn't helped. Most of the worldwide obsession with the matter is pure politics - not science. Science is a search for facts - politics is a search for *blame*.

(You're out to lunch on the ozone thing, though. That's good science).

truby has a point where man DOES harm the local environment. You don't do yourself any favors going back and forth on this issue. Stick with the global argument. Local environmental devastation is clearly documentable. Taken a look at the Bay lately? The Patuxent? How 'bout them local oysters? How about local aquifers? Ever go fishing in the Charles, the Schuylkill, or the East River? On local levels we DO devastate the environment.

 

[SamSpade]

Obviously they do. You can smell it. All storms replenish ozone.

So, if I just zap enough electrical arcs, I can fix the ozone layer?

No.

You're talking troposphere. That ozone is a pollutant. Replenishing the ozone layer in the stratosphere is an entirely different mechanism - that is NOT how it fixes itself.

 

[truby20]

http://usinfo.state.gov/gi/Archive/2005/Jun/10-43198.html

Hmmm...

but you said:

Do you know that this fall of endless hurricanes, which some blame on man, all 'made' incalculable amounts of fresh, new 'ozone'?

And the article you linked says:

Zou and Wu noticed that over 100 miles, the area of a hurricane typically has low levels of ozone from the surface to the top of the hurricane. Whenever a hurricane intensifies, it appears that the ozone levels throughout the storm decrease. When they looked at the storm with ozone data a hurricane's eye becomes very clear. Because forecasters always try to pinpoint the eye of the hurricane, this knowledge will help with locating the exact position and lead to better tracking.

SO ozone levels DROP...nothing about a hurricane creating ozone. Why did you link this??

 

[Bustem' Down]

I still say that there is no where near enough scientific data to prove that there is abnormal global warming. I say abnormal, because it is normal for the planet to warm, then cool, then warm again. Geology deals in millions of years and not hundreds, who's to say that 400,000 years from now the planet starts cooling and then another 1.5 million we have an ice age. Global warming is just a theory and it's not even accepted by the entire scientific comunity, otherwise there would be no debate.

 

[dustin]

http://usinfo.state.gov/gi/Archive/2005/Jun/10-43198.html




Hmmm...

That if ozone levels deplete more in the upper atmosphere we can have more hurricanes? :shrug:

 

[Larry Gude]

OK Sam...

...but what to do?

We live in a world where everyone is against oil but the same people who cry loudest about its evils refuse to go nuke, the logical, most intelligent option.
At the very least these people should understand how STUPID conservation methods, MPG standards, and so forth, are. If it's so bad, the sooner we use it up, the better. Conservation guarantees it will be around longer.

Those same people decry industry polluting the bay yet exclude themselves and their perfect yards as a MAJOR part of the problem. Through in consumption and simple human waste.

You say be smart, use common sense and good science.

I say swell. To what effect? People insist on living in big cities where everything is concentrated to dangerous levels. You can't get around that. Pristine streams up county in Frederick are suffering simply from human waste levels, not some industrial problem.

Thus, we will kill and destroy what we destroy and we will do what we have to do to survive. Some will cry 'too late!' or piss and moan we should have done this or that years ago. Sorry, that's not human nature for groups of people, especially when so many run around crying wolf and offering absurd solutions.

In the mean time the climate could care less. It will be fine long after we are wiped off the planet by some natural made holocaust.

 

[Larry Gude]

but you said:

And the article you linked says:


SO ozone levels DROP...nothing about a hurricane creating ozone. Why did you link this??

Because I've read both this AM. Did you not read all the links? One is a pdf which won't let me cut and paste.

One says storms create ozone. Another says ozone drops as storms intensify. Neither link is what I would call disreputable.

 

[Larry Gude]

Another says...

...trees are an integral part of the problem.

 

[Larry Gude]

John Kerry causes...

...more global warming than any other single individual on the planet.

 

[Bustem' Down]

Now Larry...

...more global warming than any other single individual on the planet.

...Now you've just reverted to insults and name calling.

 

[Larry Gude]

PS: Poinsettias...

...cure global warming.

Anyone who doesn't buy one this season hates the earth.

 

[Larry Gude]

Yes...

...Now you've just reverted to insults and name calling.

...free speech.