Good sports going on...

[Larry Gude]

...another tough loss for Phil but, absolute cheers for Justin Rose. For awhile there, I was thinking next par wins.

And yet another major week of coming to terms with just how difficult it was for Tiger to win 14 majors in the first place and coming to terms with it now becoming very unlikely he'll pass Jack AND coming to terms with Jack Nicklaus still being the greatest golfer, ever.

Also, the NBA has a great match up going as does the NHL.

I have to admit I LOVE watching the Heat lose but, that should take nothing away from just how good Parker is, how well Ginobli played, out of the blue, and how under rated Danny Green is even though he is one of the best, ever, from that other school in North Carolina. Add to that the over all team defense the Spurs are playing and having Tim Duncan as your catch all guy. It really is testament to how good Wade, Bosh and James are that they've won two of five.

Speaking of which, it really dawned on me James great weakness; he does not make his teammates much better. He's a great passer when he penetrates but, man, every time they got on any kind of break, they dribble it up. The great teams passed the ball, barely a dribble.

 

[dolemite]

...another tough loss for Phil but, absolute cheers for Justin Rose. For awhile there, I was thinking next par wins.

And yet another major week of coming to terms with just how difficult it was for Tiger to win 14 majors in the first place and coming to terms with it now becoming very unlikely he'll pass Jack AND coming to terms with Jack Nicklaus still being the greatest golfer, ever.

Also, the NBA has a great match up going as does the NHL.

I have to admit I LOVE watching the Heat lose but, that should take nothing away from just how good Parker is, how well Ginobli played, out of the blue, and how under rated Danny Green is even though he is one of the best, ever, from that other school in North Carolina. Add to that the over all team defense the Spurs are playing and having Tim Duncan as your catch all guy. It really is testament to how good Wade, Bosh and James are that they've won two of five.

Speaking of which, it really dawned on me James great weakness; he does not make his teammates much better. He's a great passer when he penetrates but, man, every time they got on any kind of break, they dribble it up. The great teams passed the ball, barely a dribble.

I love a good sports talk especially when it involves King James aka King Shame. I've been saying from the jump he's no comparison to MJ or Kobe nor is he a clutch player. Clutch players in my book take over the game; Lebron isn't that guy

 

[Larry Gude]

I love a good sports talk especially when it involves King James aka King Shame. I've been saying from the jump he's no comparison to MJ or Kobe nor is he a clutch player. Clutch players in my book take over the game; Lebron isn't that guy

No, he's not. He gets confused against good team defense. He hesitates, doesn't get to the line enough and is a so so shooter.

However, in terms of talent, gotta give him credit for being just a beast.

It's odd. I can't count how many times I lost track of him last night where he simply wasn't part of the play. Jordan, the best in my book, Bird and Magic as well, were ALWAYS doing something be it a pass, doubling on defense, a steal, a block, setting a pick, doing something to help.

James just disappears some times. Then, he forces it and turns it over. Plus, he's a touch whiny to me when he gets roughed up and doesn't get a call. Bird, Jordan, Magic, they'd get LIVID. James, no fire. No passion.

 

[dolemite]

No, he's not. He gets confused against good team defense. He hesitates, doesn't get to the line enough and is a so so shooter.

However, in terms of talent, gotta give him credit for being just a beast.

It's odd. I can't count how many times I lost track of him last night where he simply wasn't part of the play. Jordan, the best in my book, Bird and Magic as well, were ALWAYS doing something be it a pass, doubling on defense, a steal, a block, setting a pick, doing something to help.

James just disappears some times. Then, he forces it and turns it over. Plus, he's a touch whiny to me when he gets roughed up and doesn't get a call. Bird, Jordan, Magic, they'd get LIVID. James, no fire. No passion.

I would have to agree. It's so many people out here that doesn't like Kobe because they say he's a whiner don't get me wrong I would want Lebron to be on my team. IF he accepted the role as the Number#2 player, I think Wade should carry the team on his back. He's more of an athlete to IMO....

 

[Larry Gude]

I would have to agree. It's so many people out here that doesn't like Kobe because they say he's a whiner don't get me wrong I would want Lebron to be on my team. IF he accepted the role as the Number#2 player, I think Wade should carry the team on his back. He's more of an athlete to IMO....

Isn't that the problem though, how to make that talent NOT the primary guy?

I'd just like to see him exceed himself and grasp at greatness. He has talents Wade nor Kobe nor even Jordan can match. It's just the heart, I think.

I would be the first to applaud the guy if he finds a way to lead his team and win these next two.

As for Wade, his day is past. The knees have taken that critical step away. Parker just took it to him last night. Attacked him.

 

[donbarzini]

No, he's not. He gets confused against good team defense. He hesitates, doesn't get to the line enough and is a so so shooter.

However, in terms of talent, gotta give him credit for being just a beast.

It's odd. I can't count how many times I lost track of him last night where he simply wasn't part of the play. Jordan, the best in my book, Bird and Magic as well, were ALWAYS doing something be it a pass, doubling on defense, a steal, a block, setting a pick, doing something to help.

James just disappears some times. Then, he forces it and turns it over. Plus, he's a touch whiny to me when he gets roughed up and doesn't get a call. Bird, Jordan, Magic, they'd get LIVID. James, no fire. No passion.

No talk of Russell???? I'm disappointed. And nothing of the hockey playoffs? Tsk, tsk

 

[Larry Gude]

No talk of Russell???? I'm disappointed. And nothing of the hockey playoffs? Tsk, tsk

Hockey has it's own tread. I am trying to relish every moment of it I can stay awake for. The intensity, shift after shift, has been a pure joy to watch.

Just amazing.

 

[Larry Gude]

No talk of Russell???? k

Someone mentioned him last time I stuck my big mouth in a GOAT debate. He was certainly one of the greats and maybe I don't give enough credit?

 

[donbarzini]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poeWs2D5tTA


He did not do this often because he was not called upon to provide the offense. His job was to keep the other team from scoring. I've seen the memes on facebook with LeBron showing his one ring and Kobe holding up his 3, and then MJ chastising both and showing his 6. Excuse me MISTER Jordan but until you need THREE hands to display your championship jewelry, just have a seat over there and wait your turn.

And he was a player-coach for the last 3 years of his career(Only won two rings)

 

[DipStick]

Intense action in game six of the NBA Finals and I don't even like basketball.

 

[Larry Gude]

Intense action in game six of the NBA Finals and I don't even like basketball.

I can't stand the NBA except for playoffs and even then, within 5 minutes, the way the games are called, are reminding me why I can't stand the game.

The NBA long ago decided it was a league of individuals, not teams. It wanted super stars. You start calling fouls and, before long, your super stars are sitting on the bench and team depth is what really matters.

Can't have that.

It's why the NFL is so much better; you HAVE to have a BUNCH of good players. You can't make it with one super star and a bunch of half decent players. You have to have a team and when you do that, you have a lot more for fans to root for. You have a lot more to be interested in than just one or two guys.

 

[Beta]

I can't stand the NBA except for playoffs and even then, within 5 minutes, the way the games are called, are reminding me why I can't stand the game.

The NBA long ago decided it was a league of individuals, not teams. It wanted super stars. You start calling fouls and, before long, your super stars are sitting on the bench and team depth is what really matters.

Can't have that.

It's why the NFL is so much better; you HAVE to have a BUNCH of good players. You can't make it with one super star and a bunch of half decent players. You have to have a team and when you do that, you have a lot more for fans to root for. You have a lot more to be interested in than just one or two guys.

Right, because in football, you need 24+ players (off/def/ST) and probably even more than that, plus you can sub in/out for different packages, need different skill sets depending on the situation, oh and by the way, when you have a QB like Tom Brady, you hardly need anything else and you can still sniff the Super Bowl every year.

Basketball is 5 on 5. 1 superstar makes up a much larger percentage of the people on the court than it does in football, which is why it's easier to be a really good team when you have a great player. Last night's game was called pretty poorly, but the first 5 of the finals had been called pretty decent (at least better than the conference finals). I am surprised you went on that rant though, considering Wade was called for quite a few fouls, James was called on some blatant no-calls, and it was mostly Parker and roll players that got the benefit of the calls.

Out of curiousity, can you point me to the last NBA champion that fits the "super star and a bunch of half decent players" description? How often does that happen? And by half decent, I don't mean over-shadowed Hall of Famers or All Stars. I mean "half decent," which I would consider average starters that probably don't sniff the All Star game, let alone the Hall of Fame.

 

[donbarzini]

Right, because in football, you need 24+ players (off/def/ST) and probably even more than that, plus you can sub in/out for different packages, need different skill sets depending on the situation, oh and by the way, when you have a QB like Tom Brady, you hardly need anything else and you can still sniff the Super Bowl every year.

Basketball is 5 on 5. 1 superstar makes up a much larger percentage of the people on the court than it does in football, which is why it's easier to be a really good team when you have a great player. Last night's game was called pretty poorly, but the first 5 of the finals had been called pretty decent (at least better than the conference finals). I am surprised you went on that rant though, considering Wade was called for quite a few fouls, James was called on some blatant no-calls, and it was mostly Parker and roll players that got the benefit of the calls.

Out of curiousity, can you point me to the last NBA champion that fits the "super star and a bunch of half decent players" description? How often does that happen? And by half decent, I don't mean over-shadowed Hall of Famers or All Stars. I mean "half decent," which I would consider average starters that probably don't sniff the All Star game, let alone the Hall of Fame.

The games have been called exactly the way Vince McMah.....umm, David Stern has dictated. Now that it has reached game seven and they have wrung every single nickel out of the viewing public and the sponsors, they're on their own. And as far as your Brady comment goes, they won 11 games the season he went down......who needs to stick to what he knows?

 

[Beta]

The games have been called exactly the way Vince McMah.....umm, David Stern has dictated. Now that it has reached game seven and they have wrung every single nickel out of the viewing public and the sponsors, they're on their own. And as far as your Brady comment goes, they won 11 games the season he went down......who needs to stick to what he knows?

I know how many games they won (my Fins won the division that year ), but they had more talent that year...it was right after they went 17-0 and lost the Super Bowl, after all.

I'm talking more recently -- they were stacked for awhile, sure. But lately, their defense has been crap, they seem to have a bunch of castoffs at WR, and they didn't have a solid running game til last season (which may still have opened due to the Brady threat). Their main threats were Gronk & Hern, who are always injured. And put Welker with a "mortal" QB and he blends into the pack of solid-but-not-great WRs.

But maybe I made a bad choice with my example. Let's go with Peyton Manning. How did the Colts do the year he went down? A 10-14 win team won 2 games.

 

[DipStick]

But maybe I made a bad choice with my example. Let's go with Peyton Manning. How did the Colts do the year he went down? A 10-14 win team won 2 games.

The Colts weren't that good the year before. They barely lucked their way in to a division championship in a very weak AFC South division where their only real competition was Jacksonville. In fact, the only reason the Colts won the division was because Maurice Jones-Drew got hurt and the entire Jaguars offense fell apart.

Quite honestly, the only reason the Colts were good this past season was because they played a lot of incredibly weak teams (Jacksonville, Tennssee, Kansas, Miami, Buffalo and Detroit).

 

[Larry Gude]

...Last night's game was called pretty poorly, but the first 5 of the finals had been called pretty decent (at least better than the conference finals). I am surprised you went on that rant though, considering Wade was called for quite a few fouls, James was called on some blatant no-calls, and it was mostly Parker and roll players that got the benefit of the calls. .

I wasn't talking specifically about this series or Wade and James in particular. I do agree they called the games fine by typical NBA standards and, if anything, James was NOT getting calls that stars typically do.

I just meant in general. The NBA wants stars. They don't want 'team'. Yes, it's 5 on 5 but, there are 7 more guys on the bench. Call fouls. Get those people on the floor and let the better team win. The game gets beautiful when you can't plow into people, when you have to watch your positioning, when passing, give and goes, breaks to the hoop are at a premium. You can't 'learn' to be LaBron James physically but, you can practice and become a better shooter, better passer, better defender through effort and determination.

 

[Beta]

The Colts weren't that good the year before. They barely lucked their way in to a division championship in a very weak AFC South division where their only real competition was Jacksonville. In fact, the only reason the Colts won the division was because Maurice Jones-Drew got hurt and the entire Jaguars offense fell apart.

Quite honestly, the only reason the Colts were good this past season was because they played a lot of incredibly weak teams (Jacksonville, Tennssee, Kansas, Miami, Buffalo and Detroit).

I suppose you're backing up my point, although slightly odd since you're saying "ignore the records" which is all NFL teams can do. They won 10 with Peyton, then won 2 without him. So like you said, they weren't very good...remove Peyton and they suck.

But hey, who exactly has been good in the AFC East most of the years the Patriots have dominated? The Fins for a year. The Jets for a couple years. Then 10 years of nobody else. Isn't that a bunch of inflated wins as well?

I wasn't talking specifically about this series or Wade and James in particular. I do agree they called the games fine by typical NBA standards and, if anything, James was NOT getting calls that stars typically do.

I just meant in general. The NBA wants stars. They don't want 'team'. Yes, it's 5 on 5 but, there are 7 more guys on the bench. Call fouls. Get those people on the floor and let the better team win. The game gets beautiful when you can't plow into people, when you have to watch your positioning, when passing, give and goes, breaks to the hoop are at a premium. You can't 'learn' to be LaBron James physically but, you can practice and become a better shooter, better passer, better defender through effort and determination.

I think a bunch of refs might cater to the stars because they aren't comfortable enough in their own judgment, so they defer to the famous guy that flops/complains/etc. Then you have the last round of the playoffs, where the best refs in the game come. It may not be perfect, but at least it's more balanced overall.

As for becoming a better shooter, passer, and defender...that's all stuff Lebron came into the game lacking. Not only is he a physical freak, but he's probably the hardest working NBA player too. Lethal combination. It's a shame most other players don't have his work ethic.

By the way...

I would be the first to applaud the guy if he finds a way to lead his team and win these next two.

Still waiting on this. So much for first to applaud the guy, but something is better than nothing. With the amount of publicity he's been getting the past few years, taking a team to 3 straight titles and winning 2 in a row (as well as 2 finals MVPs) so he could accomplish something only Bill Russell and Michael Jordan did, I think that's a little better than "gutting it out in Cleveland and maybe winning 1." Read everything in the media. Try reading how many former NBA stars and top analysts are starting to elevate Lebron into their top 10, top 5, even top 3.

Staying in Cleveland and likely not winning a championship to this point would have most people saying he's overrated and can't help a team win. The most famous players of all time are rated because of their finals wins. Jordan. Russell. Magic. Kareem. Top players combined with multiple rings. That's where it's at in the history books. Anything less and nobody cares.

 

[Larry Gude]

Still waiting on this. So much for first to applaud the guy, but something is better than nothing. .

Well, excuse me! Been out of town since Thursday so, here it is for LaBron;

 

[Larry Gude]

Staying in Cleveland and likely not winning a championship to this point would have most people saying he's overrated and can't help a team win. The most famous players of all time are rated because of their finals wins. Jordan. Russell. Magic. Kareem. Top players combined with multiple rings. That's where it's at in the history books. Anything less and nobody cares.

Likely. That's the key.

Can we, if nothing else, agree that leaving Cleveland and winning titles with another top 10 player, Wade, and a top, what, 20 guy in Bosh, is not quite the epic history making achievement it could have been if he'd done it in Cleveland? Not as satisfying?

This is a guy with a chance to be the greatest of ALL time choosing, CHOOSING a smaller mountain to climb and nothing is going to ever change that. The possibilities in Cleveland were Mt. Everest, or whatever the pinnacle is.

Look at what he did in Cleveland; got them there with THAT cast? What was he, a Bosh coming to Cleveland away from winning it all, maybe multiple times?

 

[Beta]

he had been there what, 7 years, and the best they could do was a 40 year old shaq. sure, climbing a bigger mountain could have been more epic, but winning more titles and dominating the league is what people will look at. in 20 years, if he keeps this up, 99.9% of the population will remember him as a top player...and you and cleveland fans will say he should have stayed with a crap owner/team and somehow carried them to a championship. he gave them 7 good years and even resigned after his rookie contract to give them more chances to put talent around him. they failed, not lebron. if he had stayed and they kept failing to add talent, who knows where he would be now. he has learned a lot from wade, bosh, and allen. plus, 10 years with no talent around somebody can kill motivation. maybe he wouldnt have improved as much. im glad he has the chance to maximize his talent.

oh and so much for giving lebron his due...more empty words. why bother posting something if youre full of ####? he dominated games 6 & 7, won mvp, and carried a team to a title. wade was injured and bosh was ineffective against duncan (im not buying the ankle injury) so im curious if "adding a bosh" is the only difference, he arguably had less than that in the last 2 rounds, but still you are unhappy. the spurs clearly had more overall talent...green dominated the arc, leonard is an all around beast, the spurs own big 3 is pretty good, and even neal and diaw dominated in spots. it seems as if you merely wanted what you wanted and nothing else would appease you. maybe youre a closet cleveland fan after all