"Happy Holidays" political correctness

[TWLs wife]

Re: how do you know?

Originally posted by BuddyLee
how do you know god loves me?? and how do you know if there is a god??

I know god loves everyone, or I would be dead right now. Twl & I would have never met ( if there wasn't a god) . God gave me the best gift of all my son. That's how I know there is a God.

 

[zuchick]

Re: how do you know?

Originally posted by BuddyLee
how do you know god loves me?? and how do you know if there is a god??

BuddyLee, if you had a child, think you could love that child?

 

[zuchick]

Re: Re: Re: how do you know?

Originally posted by BuddyLee
arent their scientific explanations for that though?? im not saying that i dont believe that there is a god i just like to question it.

Indeed there are Scientific Explanations for such things.. Science can only predict or explain what it can measure and observe..

A couple years ago there was a study to determine if prayer really helped those who were sick. They determined those who were prayed for had a higher success rate of recovery then those who were not prayed for.

Can Science Measure or Observe Prayer? Don't think so, but they know it works because they have observed and noted the results.

If a fellow is holding a gun on me, tells me that he is going to shoot me, I have Great Faith that I am going to be shot.

Can Science measure or observe Faith. Don't think so. So what are we to think, Faith doesn't exist? Again, don't think so because the results are evident..

Science is dependent upon the existing Technology.

If you want an instrument to measure and observe God, ask someone who has experienced Him.. After all experience is the best teacher.

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by zuchick
They determined those who were prayed for had a higher success rate of recovery then those who were not prayed for.

Zuchick, if that were true then all the people living under a murderous dictator wouldn't be there. Or does God only listen to Christians?

 

[Kain99]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
Zuchick, if that were true then all the people living under a murderous dictator wouldn't be there. Or does God only listen to Christians?

Actually I think the study proved that those who prayed healed quicker. JMHO

 

[zuchick]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
Zuchick, if that were true then all the people living under a murderous dictator wouldn't be there. Or does God only listen to Christians?

Vrai, God hears all prayer... In my case many times He said NO, but He hears them none the less..

And you must realize that God tempers His Children as a Black Smith tempers a piece of steel.. God made a promise that I hold Him to.. He said that He would not place more on me then I can bare..

Don't forget, God also loves those murderous dictators as much as He does a devote Christian. He hates their error, but He loves them.

Ever notice that some who have served God all their lives generally suffer the most before God calls for their return to Him? Many ask why? Many are afraid to ask why? Take my father for example, God rest his soul.. Dad had Parkinsons Diease, Black Lung and Silocos (Sp??) Not to mention Heart Diease, Vascular Diease and more. He truly suffered, but was a walking testimony to God. In his suffering, I never heard him complain though I know he was in Great Pain.. Why would a Loving God do such a thing to such a devoted loving man? Because He knew dad could handle it.. And when my father fell asleep in Christ, I am sure that the way he carried himself and still showed his love and devotion to God touched not only my heart but many others..

So you might say because I do not know the mind of God that it was God's Plan to benefit others who would have been lost in their sin by showing them the courage and Faith my father had while he was still in the flesh.. I believe with all my heart, mind and faith that such suffering is to bring others closer to God.

 

[zuchick]

Vrai you must realize.

Vrai, you must realize there are worse thing then death.

 

[zuchick]

No I take that back, you do not have to realize anything you have no desire for, but IMHB one day, you and everyone else will be on bent knee before God. On that day they must realize they were in error. I mean don't get me wrong, I am not trying to conver you or anyone else... God is the only one who can do that, but it is my duty to atleast tell you of the truth I fough so hard at one time to deny.. I just thank God I realized it before I was on bent knee pleading for mercy before God's Judgement.

Many people say they are atheist.. Personally I do not believe there is such a thing.. But I will ask those who proclaim themselves as being atheist, "Have you ever been wrong? If you have ever in your lifetime been wrong, what if you are wrong about there not being a God in heaven."

You gotta admit, it is something to think long and hard about?

If I were agnostic which I believe that all atheist really are, and had ever been wrong about anything in my life, I think I would prefer to be wrong about God existing then God not existing and live accordingly because there is simply too much at risk to be wrong by saying there is no God.

 

[zuchick]

Originally posted by Tonio
My idea of political correctness is "Happy Holidays." It sounds like a pathetic attempt to not ignore non-Christians during Christmas.

In my workplace (non-government) we had someone give a Christian prayer before our annual awards dinner. Unlike some of the extremists in the ACLU, I have no problem with that.

But also, unlike some of the extremists in the Christian Coalition, I think we should recognize other religions during these type of events. Some of my co-workers are Jews and Hindus, and if I ran the awards dinner, I would ask one person from each of these faiths to say a short prayer before the Christian prayer. And if the workplace is setting up a Christmas tree in the lobby, why not invite some Jewish employees to set up a menorah?

Sounds like a much better solution than watering down Christmas for somebody's twisted idea of inclusion.

You know, I have thought even more over what you have said here Tonio.. If you are a Jew and wish a Christian Happy Hanuka, I do not see how a Christian could be insulted because the one making such a wish to them is not asking them to become a jew, merely wishing them Happiness during the Jewish Holiday Hanuka like a Jew should not take offense by a Christian wishing them a Happy or Merry Christimas.. One who would take offense in another wishing them Happiness or to be Merry I would question their rationality.

IMHB people have became toooooooo sensitive in this day and time and are always looking for insult in the most innocent things so they can take them to court.. Maddness! Sheer Maddness!

 

[Toxick]

Re: Re: Re: how do you know?

Originally posted by BuddyLee
arent their scientific explanations for that though?? im not saying that i dont believe that there is a god i just like to question it.

Didn't we already have this conversation?

 

[Tonio]

Re: Re: "Happy Holidays" political correctness

Originally posted by zuchick
You know, I have thought even more over what you have said here Tonio.. If you are a Jew and wish a Christian Happy Hanuka, I do not see how a Christian could be insulted because the one making such a wish to them is not asking them to become a jew, merely wishing them Happiness during the Jewish Holiday Hanuka like a Jew should not take offense by a Christian wishing them a Happy or Merry Christimas.. One who would take offense in another wishing them Happiness or to be Merry I would question their rationality.

IMHB people have became toooooooo sensitive in this day and time and are always looking for insult in the most innocent things so they can take them to court.. Maddness! Sheer Maddness!

Good post. I think you understand me in part.

You're right that people of all religions are too quick to be offended. I doubt that most Jews get offended if someone assumes they're Christian. The ones that do are the type of people who are just looking to get offended by something, no matter what their religion. (Many Jews, notably Lenny Bruce, have suggested that "Jew-dar" is the result of belonging to a religious and cultural minority.)

I didn't suggest having many religious displays for fear that someone would get offended. My idea is that it would be a proactive gesture of goodwill to a company's non-Christian employees.

The big problem at the heart of PC is that it's not based in common sense and simple manners. With a black person, for example, it only recognizes the black and not the person. My guess is that most members of minorities want to be treated as people and not as "special," which is very patronizing. (The ones who do want that special treatment, like Al Sharpton, are acting out of a childish, pathetic need for attention.) Treat someone with respect and you shouldn't have to worry about offending them.

 

[Ehesef]

Re: Re: Re: "Happy Holidays" political correctness

Originally posted by Tonio
Treat someone with respect and you shouldn't have to worry about offending them.

This is a great thought! I think I will use it as my new sig line!

 

[tlatchaw]

 

[zuchick]

Re: Re: Re: "Happy Holidays" political correctness

Originally posted by Tonio
Good post. I think you understand me in part.


You're right that people of all religions are too quick to be offended. I doubt that most Jews get offended if someone assumes they're Christian. The ones that do are the type of people who are just looking to get offended by something, no matter what their religion. (Many Jews, notably Lenny Bruce, have suggested that "Jew-dar" is the result of belonging to a religious and cultural minority.)

I think what offends peoples of all Faiths is obscene displays, action, thought and words. However there are the some fundamentalist movements who go to extremes to be offended.


I didn't suggest having many religious displays for fear that someone would get offended. My idea is that it would be a proactive gesture of goodwill to a company's non-Christian employees.


I personally do not believe it is the religious displays that people find offensive as much as their desire to "get rich quick" ideas via a suite.. Most realize that companies these days are quick to offer out of court settlements.


The big problem at the heart of PC is that it's not based in common sense and simple manners. With a black person, for example, it only recognizes the black and not the person. My guess is that most members of minorities want to be treated as people and not as "special," which is very patronizing. (The ones who do want that special treatment, like Al Sharpton, are acting out of a childish, pathetic need for attention.) Treat someone with respect and you shouldn't have to worry about offending them.

It was due to Jessy Jackson's focus on the minority groups with his Rainbow Coalition why I did not vote for him years ago. I ain't interested in minority groups at all.. I'm interested in Americans though I belong to one of the smallest minority groups in the US. The only Special Interest Group I have any desire to be part of is the American Group.. When we stop this Political Correctness hurt feelings thing which like gas will pass with time, we can get back to being Americans instead of part of a Special Interest Group.

 

[Tonio]

Re: Re: Re: Re: "Happy Holidays" political correctness

Originally posted by Ehesef
This is a great thought! I think I will use it as my new sig line!

Well, garsh! I'm highly flattered. Thank you.

 

[BuddyLee]

explain

Originally posted by zuchick
Vrai, God hears all prayer... In my case many times He said NO, but He hears them none the less..

And you must realize that God tempers His Children as a Black Smith tempers a piece of steel.. God made a promise that I hold Him to.. He said that He would not place more on me then I can bare..

Don't forget, God also loves those murderous dictators as much as He does a devote Christian. He hates their error, but He loves them.

Ever notice that some who have served God all their lives generally suffer the most before God calls for their return to Him? Many ask why? Many are afraid to ask why? Take my father for example, God rest his soul.. Dad had Parkinsons Diease, Black Lung and Silocos (Sp??) Not to mention Heart Diease, Vascular Diease and more. He truly suffered, but was a walking testimony to God. In his suffering, I never heard him complain though I know he was in Great Pain.. Why would a Loving God do such a thing to such a devoted loving man? Because He knew dad could handle it.. And when my father fell asleep in Christ, I am sure that the way he carried himself and still showed his love and devotion to God touched not only my heart but many others..

So you might say because I do not know the mind of God that it was God's Plan to benefit others who would have been lost in their sin by showing them the courage and Faith my father had while he was still in the flesh.. I believe with all my heart, mind and faith that such suffering is to bring others closer to God.

ok im not trying to say that your totally wrong but i would just like to question you. how do you know that all that you say is correct??? how do we know that everything in the bible is correct??? i dont want to hear anything about FAITH because if we dont know if its true or not then why have FAITH in it??? i could have faith in a PENCIL and who would say that im wrong. we dont know for sure is all im saying. sure having faith in a pencil for a god is irrational but im just giving a foolish example. i am just not so sure that all we hear the religous world is the actual truth!! for all we know the story could have been written over and over and over with many changes over all of these years and people. just a lil something to think about.

 

[zuchick]

Re: explain

Originally posted by BuddyLee
ok im not trying to say that your totally wrong but i would just like to question you. how do you know that all that you say is correct??? how do we know that everything in the bible is correct??? i dont want to hear anything about FAITH because if we dont know if its true or not then why have FAITH in it??? i could have faith in a PENCIL and who would say that im wrong. we dont know for sure is all im saying. sure having faith in a pencil for a god is irrational but im just giving a foolish example. i am just not so sure that all we hear the religous world is the actual truth!! for all we know the story could have been written over and over and over with many changes over all of these years and people. just a lil something to think about.

Good question, but I rely upon the 2,000 years of unintrupted Church History.. And in that 2,000 years there has been little if any change in the Eastern Orthodox Church. Also in that 2,000 years is 2,000 years of experiences. And for me that is enough. Some think that God, the Creator of All Things Known and Unknown, Visible and Invisible, should come and appear before them and say.. Hey here I am, I'm real.. Now tell me what makes such a person who doesn't believe in Him so important that He would do such a thing, not to say He wouldn't..

Take Saint Paul the Apostle, would he risk life and limb if God did not exist? St Peter, would he do the same if the Bible was in error? Would St Peter, St Andrew, St James and the other Apostles have place their life at risk if they did not know Christ as they did.. They all were rational men and women who were Disciples of Christ that seen His Works and testified about His works..

It is not up to me to convince you thet Word of God is the truth? I can not force feed you the words to make you believe and wouldn't if I could because of Freewill. We must make that choice to either believe or not to believe in Him like we must be held accountable for those choices.. Even the Bible says many will be called, but few will come.. God will sometimes harden a persons Heart to resist Him.. Why? Only He knows and the best we can do is to speculate His reasons for doing such athing.. Like the Death of someone always works to benefits others who knew the person who passed or merely read about the person who passed. But Hard Hearted works to show examples or message to benefit others like Death..

But All I can do is to tell you of my personal experience in God's Dealing with me in my life. My mother, God rest her soul, fell asleep in Christ July 10, 1991.. She was IMHO a Godly Woman and if her passing only effected me personally which I am sure it did not then her passing was God's Will and within His Plan for others and myself who looked her life as an example as to how we wanted to be. My father's falling asleep in Christ in Sept 1978 had the same result.. It not only benefited me, but others who knew or read about dad..

There was a young man who passed away a year ago yesterday. I had never met him, but my wife worked with his mother.. The young man literally had pieces of his body to die and fall off due to Diabetes.. when this young man passed away, his death had benefited my life because it not only made me take better care of myself, but closer to God because I realized myown mortality years ago and just these last couple years have came to terms about it..

Everyone knows they are going to die, but knowing is not the same as preceiving.. When you preceive yourown mortality which if you live long enough you will, then you will seek God, if it be His Will and Plan for you to do so.

I don't know if I have answered your question, but for me, I would rather believe the Bible as being the truth then what is written in History.

 

[BuddyLee]

Re: Re: explain

Originally posted by zuchick
Good question, but I rely upon the 2,000 years of unintrupted Church History.. And in that 2,000 years there has been little if any change in the Eastern Orthodox Church. Also in that 2,000 years is 2,000 years of experiences. And for me that is enough. Some think that God, the Creator of All Things Known and Unknown, Visible and Invisible, should come and appear before them and say.. Hey here I am, I'm real.. Now tell me what makes such a person who doesn't believe in Him so important that He would do such a thing, not to say He wouldn't..

Take Saint Paul the Apostle, would he risk life and limb if God did not exist? St Peter, would he do the same if the Bible was in error? Would St Peter, St Andrew, St James and the other Apostles have place their life at risk if they did not know Christ as they did.. They all were rational men and women who were Disciples of Christ that seen His Works and testified about His works..

It is not up to me to convince you thet Word of God is the truth? I can not force feed you the words to make you believe and wouldn't if I could because of Freewill. We must make that choice to either believe or not to believe in Him like we must be held accountable for those choices.. Even the Bible says many will be called, but few will come.. God will sometimes harden a persons Heart to resist Him.. Why? Only He knows and the best we can do is to speculate His reasons for doing such athing.. Like the Death of someone always works to benefits others who knew the person who passed or merely read about the person who passed. But Hard Hearted works to show examples or message to benefit others like Death..

But All I can do is to tell you of my personal experience in God's Dealing with me in my life. My mother, God rest her soul, fell asleep in Christ July 10, 1991.. She was IMHO a Godly Woman and if her passing only effected me personally which I am sure it did not then her passing was God's Will and within His Plan for others and myself who looked her life as an example as to how we wanted to be. My father's falling asleep in Christ in Sept 1978 had the same result.. It not only benefited me, but others who knew or read about dad..

There was a young man who passed away a year ago yesterday. I had never met him, but my wife worked with his mother.. The young man literally had pieces of his body to die and fall off due to Diabetes.. when this young man passed away, his death had benefited my life because it not only made me take better care of myself, but closer to God because I realized myown mortality years ago and just these last couple years have came to terms about it..

Everyone knows they are going to die, but knowing is not the same as preceiving.. When you preceive yourown mortality which if you live long enough you will, then you will seek God, if it be His Will and Plan for you to do so.

I don't know if I have answered your question, but for me, I would rather believe the Bible as being the truth then what is written in History.

thanks alot that was a real good read!!! gives me something to think about. i like you and your posts, you stand up for what you believe in and i like that!!!!

thanks again

 

[zuchick]

Re: Re: Re: explain

Originally posted by BuddyLee
thanks alot that was a real good read!!! gives me something to think about. i like you and your posts, you stand up for what you believe in and i like that!!!!

thanks again

You words are very humbling to me.

God Bless and Keep you and yours and may He grant you a Peaceful, sinless and Restful sleep.

 

[TripleJ]

Hmmn? I'm an athiest, I tend to think we are all athiest, I simply believe in one less god than say Zuchick.... I still can't believe that there are those that use Pascal's Wager in an attempt to promote their religious beliefs? This has been destroyed many times over by both secular and nonsecular parties..... something you could get away at a teen bible study, but be embarassed by in adult circles if you brought it up...... Any way.... I'm not insulted or offended when someone wishes me a merry christmass, I like the season, I believe in Santa and like the good cheer that brings, so Merry Christmas everyone