Harry Potter...

[andwhat]

Everything has an opposite? That I can agree with b/c without knowing dark, you will never know what is light, the smae way with hot or cold, etc. But how do you know definitively that it is the opposite. If all my experience with water is water that is 40 degrees and tehn i come acroos water that is 45 degrees, that would seem down right hot to me. Go take a dip in a pool thats 45 degrees and let me know how warm that is. What I'm saying is that when you determine something to be opposite, wihtin your won intellect and experience i.e. a postori (as opposed to a priori knowledge) you are judging on the limit of your experience.
As for the sorcery, voodoo thing. Someone who comes back to life after he's dead is voodoo. thats zombism, one of the most visible aspects of voodoo. how about someone flying, are they a witch then? Or walking on water? Or changing bread into body and wine into blood. Isn't the church simply pervaying a sort of voodoo. Was Jesus a zombie when he ascended into heaven after he rose again? Or when he walked on water which is pretty close to flying if you ask me. Whats wrong with kids wishing they could fly on brooms or cast spells. Everykid in those developmental years is searching to find themselves and who they are. Everyone wants to feel special, to be set apart from the group b/c they are better at something than others. The Harry Potter series is merely acknowledging that fact and saying that its ok. So Harry Potter is voodoo, what about superman. Have your kids never read or seen sleeping beauty, or cinderella or the wizard of oz? They all seem to fit your definition of voodoo, which accoding to you is inherently bad, though I'm not sure that you are qualified to make that claim b/c I'm guessing your experience with anything like that comes from what some other overly conservative person has told you. Go read Plato's allegory of the cave and you'll understand.

 

[PmoneyandTT]

For the sake of non-argument - I don't want my children reading those books - my parent preference..

Why do liberals insist on making me do what they have accepted.. I can go on and on with this - but Im not.. Im not putting titles on anything - I said TV fortune tellers - no one in particular - You chose to use Ms. Cleo - I said 2nd graders because I kept having to repeat myself. Much like you would do with a child.  Jimmy - you like to argue for the sake of arguing.. Thats fine - if thats your cup of tea.. But I made a comment about what I will not do in my family.. What you do in yours - is your business.. If you made a comment about that - I would disgard it - because Im sure I wouldn't agree anyway - so there would be no need for negative or positive response.

 

[Jimmyrich]

P&TT,

No one is trying to make you DO anything; other than to offer some justification for your blanket statement of "I'm not gonna agree with anyone on this".  Sure you have parental preference with your children;  they're your children go ahead. But I'm only asking for some sort of logical reason why?  You liken it to wichcraft, I say "how"? And your only response is to say 'well I'm not gonna believe you. You only argue just to argue. I can go on and on, but I'm not'.  You don't really offer anything, and you get defensive. You're not being attacked here; your views are being questioned. That's what these forums are about--expressing and discussing/arguing viewpoints. And when you are asked to justify your position, you kinda run away?  Why express your opinion in the first place then?

 

[daniel]

well played fellow second graders!

Just to clarify, I do not necessarily like witchcraft or sorcery but I do not hate or condem witches. I also don't follow the beliefs of Jews or Muslims but I am not condeming them for being different. I am a christian but unlike the ulta conservative christians like PmoneyandTT, I do not use christianity to hate or condem others who are different. Hate, ignorance and religion are a dangerous combination. When groups use religion as an excuse to hate what they don't understand bad things happen. A few extreme examples are the witch burnings, lynching by the KKK and of course the attacks on Sept. 11. I know that is a very extreme case but It fits. The terrorists used religion and their idea of god as a base for their hate and ignorance of America. Religion teaches us to accept one another and love all; not to hate and persecute.

 

[PmoneyandTT]

Im not expecting you to like my answers.. Really I don't have to give justification of why.. Reason - Im a CHRISTIAN.. No other reason why.. I don't have to go into detail with you.. Plus - Man likes to ask for justification.. Ask your self this - would it really matter if I explained myself to you?  Probably not.. You have your life - I have mine.. And Im not saying you liberals - just the world as a whole.. I don't accept gay lifstyle - Im wrong for that.  I don't accept witchcraft Im wrong for that.. I don't accept shackling up Im wrong for that.. I could go on and on with it.. But really I backdown - because really I don't have to prove my belief to you.. Your just a man - and you will find fault regardless.

 

[andwhat]

I completly acknowledge your right as a parent to shape the minds of your children and deem what is and is not appropriate for them to watch, listen to, read etc.  That is a parental right that noone should ever attemp[t to take away. But at least have the decency to allow your children to have an open mind and not grow up with a closed mind so they turn out to be someone like hessian. I was at my gf's church the other day adn they are very creligously and socially conservative. The priest held up a bible and a book of mormon and asked the congregation which oone they should turn to for answers. everyone said the bible, except for me. I simply said both. Read everything, look at everything, approach everything with an openmind and then you will eb fulfilled as a person. Leonardo Da Vinci did this and the phrase renaisance man was coined after him as a person who explores his world and makes his own decisions and approaches everything with an open mind. If Harry Potter is so wrong and inherently bad, then when your kids read it, they won't be interested. Your role as a parent is not to sit there and completly control your kids lives so they believe the same things as you and turn out to be you. It is to teach your kids and allow them to grow to become who they are. Let them find their individuality to find who they really are. Help them, don't hinder them.

 

[PmoneyandTT]

And the God I follow - teaches love.. Regardless of what you might think of me.. I would never hurt another human being - dispite their differences.. This world has been using that for so long.. I judge character from the inside.. Not what I see on the outside.. I never one time said I would kill - hate - or do anything negative to anyone - you got me mixed up with someone else.. Plus your a newbie - go back and read some post - before you start slinging mud.. Just because I believe Harry Potter is practicing witchcraft - is my own opinion..

 

[daniel]

PmoneyandTT,
You are dense as can be. WE said Mrs Cleo, Not you, but we were just picking a name to use out of a long list of tv fortune tellers (3.99 per minute. for enetertainment value only). So please stop bringing that up, its pointless and only lessens teh credibility of your already shakey argument.

On another not, we are not telling you how to raise your kids, no one said "hey that not fair, let your kids see harry potter". And if you don't want to argue your points then don't post them. This is not a place to rally all ultra conservatives together in a campaign against Harry Potter  and witches. It is a place toi state and defend arguments. Its not our fault that you make statements that are based on hate filled beliefs instead of logic. You are getting defensive cause you can't logically argue your points. sad, very sad indeed.

 

[PmoneyandTT]

And about my kids - They have an opinion - but Im still the parent.. We talk about alot of things.. Nothing I wish to discuss on this forum.. But believe me - my kids know more then adults give them credit for..

Example - When I teach my children the stove is hot when you turn it on - I just don't tell them - I show them by turning it on - and letting them feel the heat come off the eye..

I express some of my views on this forum - but best believe me - Im not an open book..

And I know what it feels like to be judged on a regular basis - so don't throw that at me either.. So the choices you make in life - shouldn't be based on someone's belief - they should be based on what you wanna do with your life..

Let me be the parent I wanna be - and you be the parent you wanna be.. Everything is discussed openly with my family..

Im not one to tell my children there is a Santa Claus.. Do you think Im going to give some imaginary character credit of what I spend.. NO... But if you do that in your household - thats good for you.. Its fine with me.. And about getting defensive - YEP sure do.. I defend anything I trust and believe in.. If I don't get defensive then Im not sure of myself..

 

[daniel]

oh, i am only a newbie. well for christs sake i must be wrong. i guess if i read more posts i will see that your arguements must be based on absolutely nothing more than ones beliefs. They shouldn't make sense or be based in some sort of fact. and if i get in a jam i will just say "i am a christian so i don't need logic and reason to form or defend my arguements. they don't need to make sense cause christians are right cause we are annd i am one so i am right and you can't beat that". Yeah thats makes sense, so i say to you, you are wrong infinity plus one. yes i win! hey your a christian and i am a newbie second grader.

 

[PmoneyandTT]

I bought it up twice daniel.. Thats because Jimmy kept talking about it.. I wasn't going to talk about it - until Jimmy had to find some reason to make a big deal out of it.. Yes Im defensive - So what...

Yep - Im going to talk about my opinion just like your talking about yours.. You will just be another opponent I have to deal with.. Tell me one time I said Hate?  Dislike? I do not judge.. I said what I will not let my kids see.. I didn't say people shouldn't let their children go and see that movie.. Now if I had said that - I could understand your argument.. But I said my family - my family - my family.. My family.. NOw do you get it.. MY FAMILY WILL NOT SEE THAT MOVIE....... NO need is justifying to you what I do with my family......

 

[Jimmyrich]

Pretty much said what I was thinking, andwhat...
Pmoney,
You're misinterpreting.  I'm not here to run you away from Christianity.  But I don't mind saying that I'd like the opportunity to open your mind a bit.  I'm not condeming you as "wrong" for your beliefs.  I'm curious as to how they come about. You say it is because you are a Christian. But I'm not sure about that justification because I know plenty of Christians who are letting their kids see/read Harry Potter.  I'm picturing a scenario where your children go to school and all the other kids are talking about Harry Potter and the movie and acting it out at recess etc.  Won't your kids feel left out?  And you may feel that this is OK because, hey, you don't have to just conform to what everyone else believes.  But don't you think that your children should be afforded the opportunity to decide for themselves? Sure you raise them and you give them the best rearing you can and instill morals. But, inevitably, they will be in the real world without you there to cover their eyes at the scary parts or to keep poisons on the high shelves.  Why don't you trust your own parenting ablitity?  If your children read Harry Potter and find it evil and repulsive then you'll have affirmed your belief in your children's ability to make decisions. But if you find that  they enjoy it and it doesn't lead to devil worship or witchcraft, maybe you'll rethink your hard-line stance on some other issues like sexuality, religion and culture.  

 

[Christy]

TT, to change the subject somewhat, would you allow your children to read the "Chronicles of Narnia" by C.S. Lewis?  If so why?  If not why not?  just curious.  

 

[AnonymousPenguin]

What does being a newbie have anything to do with this matter??

If I recall correctly, we all started out as newbies... and being a newbie did not in any sense make our view points less meaningful....

I believe that this thread is about reviewing the movie....just putting things in perspective...seems you guys are no longer discussing the subject...as you are speaking of individual parental choices...and Ms. Cleo...can we leave her alone??...lol

I'd like to hear more about WHY the practices in the movie are good or bad...

 

[PmoneyandTT]

Nothing is a cop out - with being a christian.. I believe by faith not by sight.. It really doesn't matter how you view me.. You don't have a hell or heaven to put me in.. So what you have to say to me - still will not change my views - will not change my faith - and will not make me believe in Man.. Everything I have - and worked for - came from God.. He has blessed my life - I will never have to worry about anything.. Im happy with who I am.. Who I serve. And what I believe in.. Regardless of how you feel about me - Im content in me..  Just because something isn't logic to you - doesn't mean anything.. Im not saying your right or wrong - Im expressing what I believe in only.. I never said - PEOPLE that don't believe in my faith are lower then myself.. We are not taught that.. God has no respector of a certain person.. He sees us all the same.. And thats how Im suppose to be.. Once again - I don't hate anyone - regardless of color - sex - religion belief - ethinic background.. Can you say the same?  And what I meant by newbie - is that you have to look at the foundation - before you can come in and make a judgement call..

 

[Jimmyrich]

Ok, ok....

This thread was started by my favorite member, Hessain, and he was basically expousing the evil, dark, horrible things that the Potter series has been leading to.   I challenged him to provide proof as I viewed it as an attack on the Potter series that was unfounded. He was not able to do so credibly. Then, PmoneyandTT comes in and says that "I'm not letting my family see it. I also don't call the psychic on tv" basically equating the two as voodoo, magical, heresy.  I call her (him?) on that and all I get is a rhetorical arguement about the invoking of Ms. Cleo's name, which was not the point. So let's get beyond that.
Then, when asked to claim WHAT ABOUT THE MOVIE she/he finds so offensive; nothing.  Just some words attesting to his/her faith and how I can't judge her/him and believing through faith not eyes etc...whatever.
The question is:  Why single out the Potter series? Have you read them? Do you know, really, what they are about first hand and why they might or might not be dangerous to your children? Do you simply hear your pastor say "Don't watch this movie" and go "ok"?  What in the movie/book to you find morally reprehensible? And, following that, how do you justify calling that amoral yet touting swordfish to be one of the greatest movies you've ever seen? (complete with graphic violence, lying, cheating, stealing, and hallie Berries, beautiful, boobies?)   Where and why do you draw the line?

 

[daniel]

Thanks Penguin, for the newbie comment.

Thank you Christy and Jimmy for getting back to the point, no more on parenting and Mrs Cleo, just good questions for Pmoney. And, pmoney, I am just asking, like Jimmy, that you use some sort of reasoning for your opinion on harry potter. And if you are just banning it from your house hold because your pastor said it was bad, don't you think that that sort of blind following is dangerous?

 

[andwhat]

And to add on to Jimmyrich, swordfish was absolutely horrible.
You have said before Pmoney that you don't tell your kids about Santa b/c you don't want him getting credit for what you do. Don't you think that your kids are going to be incredibly out of place with the rest of their classmates? Do you not allow your kids any imagination at all? Let me guess, you don't allow them to trick or treat b/c it started out as all hallows eve when people would dress up as ghosts. Yuo don't want your kids ot believe in this mystical being that loves everyone and tries to make them happy by giving them presnets and rewarding them if they do good and punishes them if they do bad. Were you talking about Sanat or God b/c jeez they seem kinda similar when you really look at it. Hmmm. You won't let your family read Harry Potter but you loved swordfish, a movie about killing innocent people for essentially no reason. Seems a bit hypocritical to me, but hey you like what you like.

 

[PmoneyandTT]

Great.. all have good opinions..

 

[Jimmyrich]

You still haven't explained what about Harry Potter you find offensive.  How about JUST that question and nothing else for now...I can see that you are probably feeling a bit overwhelmed right now. But I'm anxious to know what about HARRY POTTER books/movies has led you to that decision...