Homeland Security

[Larry Gude]

You're killing me...

Before 9/11, would you have really thought airplanes would be used as missiles to kill thousands of people?

...then I showed you who and now...

This proves YOUR point?

 

[SmallTown]

Why, o' great obstinant one, have we NOT been attacked?

and what makes you think we haven't been? At least people trying. Homeland Security is not a waste of time and effort. It is something we need and something we need to expand.

 

[Larry Gude]

We can prepare for all of these...

and that we are unprepared for even the most obvious scenarios

...inspect each and every shipping container, restrict all foriegn flights from entering US airspace that we don't know, fact certain, have been cleared of terrorists, build a couple of fences around the country, both North and South and more fences back from them to cover tunnels, wall of the beaches and have 1,000,000 Navy SEAL's in the water at all times looking for Gomer and, gee, what else, eliminate foreign mail and packages, put security on every truck, every bus, every private plane, arm guards at all points of gatehring, schools, churches, malls, etc. etc... etc...

And STILL get hit.

 

[Larry Gude]

Well you got me there...

and what makes you think we haven't been?

The only places I know for sure that have NOT been hit is where I've been. Recently.

The rest of you out there claiming not to be dead or blow'd up are possibly lying. Using auto posters or some such trickery.

 

[Larry Gude]

There's your own trap...

...if I can't claim to know that we have NOT been attacked then...

Homeland Security is not a waste of time and effort. It is something we need and something we need to expand.

How is it that you make that claim? Pehaps you know first hand of an atack foiled. Great, but that only puts public perception asleep while we need to be unified to kill our enemies. Right now, we are killing Al queda left sand right...in Iraq. This battle needs to be settled or we spend eternity looking over our shoulder.

Unless the news is lying about that to.

 

[SmallTown]

...inspect each and every shipping container, restrict all foriegn flights from entering US airspace that we don't know, fact certain, have been cleared of terrorists, build a couple of fences around the country, both North and South and more fences back from them to cover tunnels, wall of the beaches and have 1,000,000 Navy SEAL's in the water at all times looking for Gomer and, gee, what else, eliminate foreign mail and packages, put security on every truck, every bus, every private plane, arm guards at all points of gatehring, schools, churches, malls, etc. etc... etc...

And STILL get hit.

So you're just saying throw our hands in the air and don't worry about nationaly security? So we should eliminate the CIA, NSA, NRO, even the "new" FBI. Heck, Iraq has shown a willingness to battle us even with our military, maybe we should stop spending money on the military as well?

Hackers still find ways into computer systems, should we just stop spending money on computer protection? Identity theft was a big issue even before the internet, so should we remove security on all over our perceived personal data?

 

[ylexot]

I'm surprised than nobody has mentioned intel. As Sun Tzu wrote in the Art of War, "know your enemy, know yourself". I think we have a decent idea of what our strengths and weaknesses are. So "know your enemy" is gathering intel. I guarantee you we're gathering as much as we can. Actually, we have so much intel that we don't have enough people to go through it all. Look in the paper. I guarantee you can find a well paying job if you know Arabic. We could dump all the money we have into trying to secure borders and check cargo containers, but if we don't know what they're up to, they'll figure out a way to get in and attack. If we know our enemies, we can concentrate our efforts to counter them.

 

[SmallTown]

The only places I know for sure that have NOT been hit is where I've been. Recently.

The rest of you out there claiming not to be dead or blow'd up are possibly lying. Using auto posters or some such trickery.

yea, go to the familys of the thousands of people who were killed in NYC and say "hey, Sh!t happens."

 

[Larry Gude]

Ok...

I admit I will not use 5 words where 500 will suffice but...

So you're just saying throw our hands in the air and don't worry about nationaly security? So we should eliminate the CIA, NSA, NRO, even the "new" FBI.

You gotta read SOME of it.

I said:

The effort (manpower and money) should go into using the Patriot Act, developing usable evidence and acting on it, evidence that used to not be enough.

That means when the flight school guy says 'hey, Atta don't wanna know to land, wanna look into it?' ...that we LOOK into it instead of 'nahw, we can't go hurting peoples feelings about what parts of class the ywanna skip..."

 

[Larry Gude]

Thank you very much...

I think we have a decent idea of what our strengths and weaknesses are. So "know your enemy" is gathering intel. I guarantee you we're gathering as much as we can. Actually, we have so much intel that we don't have enough people to go through it all. Look in the paper. I guarantee you can find a well paying job if you know Arabic. We could dump all the money we have into trying to secure borders and check cargo containers, but if we don't know what they're up to, they'll figure out a way to get in and attack. If we know our enemies, we can concentrate our efforts to counter them.

Making me stand in ####ing line for an hour at the airport is NOT helping a thing.

 

[Larry Gude]

Ok...

yea, go to the familys of the thousands of people who were killed in NYC and say "hey, Sh!t happens."

Now I have no idea what you are after.

I'm supposed to be upset for people who were not attacked?

 

[SmallTown]

That means when the flight school guy says 'hey, Atta don't wanna know to land, wanna look into it?' ...that we LOOK into it instead of 'nahw, we can't go hurting peoples feelings about what parts of class the ywanna skip..."

My ideas for homeland security go beyond just the actual DHS. As ylexot mentioned, to me it is a combination of DHS, intelligence, and military.

 

[SmallTown]

Making me stand in ####ing line for an hour at the airport is NOT helping a thing.

 

[Larry Gude]

And inspecting...

DHS, intelligence, and military.

...every freaking container at the docks and holding up non-Arabs at the airport is a WASTE OF THEIR TIME AND RESOURCES.

If there is cause, go get 'em.

 

[Larry Gude]

You know...

...you're the guy who didn't want anyone messing with computers at libraries so you could catch some porn in public. You didn't wanna have to help watch anyone elses kids.

Now, you want a crosswalk guard EVERYWHERE.

?

 

[vraiblonde]

ST, the fact of the matter is that there's NOTHING you can do about a terrorist who is willing to kill himself in the process of killing you. That's why suicide bombing is so effective - the killer doesn't have to worry about getting caught, doesn't have to plan an escape, doesn't have to be sneaky about it. You just strap a bomb on yourself, walk over to a populated area and ka-BLAM! Mission accomplished.

Shoot, I could load myself up and take out the Supreme Court right now. I could take out an elementary school. And there wouldn't be anything you could do to stop me.

If there were a way to stop suicide bombers, don't you think Isreal would have figured it out by now?

 

[Larry Gude]

The last word...

If there were a way to stop suicide bombers, don't you think Isreal would have figured it out by now?

They live in an armed society with threats and inconveniences we'd never dream of tolerating.

Great point.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Before 9/11, would you have really thought airplanes would be used as missiles to kill thousands of people? I'm sure on 9/10 we all thought our airlines here were safe, hijackings only happened in those "other countries"

Are you kidding? Do you remember the hijacking to Cuba? Being a pilot, I figured it was only a matter of time.

 

[Ken King]

Before 9/11, would you have really thought airplanes would be used as missiles to kill thousands of people? I'm sure on 9/10 we all thought our airlines here were safe, hijackings only happened in those "other countries"

Yes, it has been a concerned scenario for years, but it was more of a fear that the airplane would be inbound from another nation loaded with either a thermo-nuclear or a dirty device. The ingenuity on 9/11 was that they didn't use explosives but the near full fuel condition of locally originating flights to pull it off. At that time our defenses were out-looking, now they must encompass the full 360 degree view.

 

[SmallTown]

...you're the guy who didn't want anyone messing with computers at libraries so you could catch some porn in public. You didn't wanna have to help watch anyone elses kids.

Now, you want a crosswalk guard EVERYWHERE.

?

Wasn't about catching some porn, simply anti-censorship.

And please tell where I said I want a crosswalk guard everywhere. You always use the extreme case of your oposition to try and prove your point. But so far the only point you have really made is that you hate the extra time at the airport.

And I just flew last month. Zipped right through security at Dulles, Memphis, and New Orleans :shrug: