Hooray Tulsi!

Spitfire

Active Member
Yeah, I'm not the one running around calling everyone a Russian spy.

Greetings:

What is the legal standard for defamation of a public figure like Ms. Gabbard?

The fact that she served in the military, while honorable, has nothing to do with anything on the table here.

So, the legal standard for defamation of Ms. Gabbard by Ms. Clinton?

And go.
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
I am not sure spitfires reasoning is correct as to why Hillary will not lose a nickel because of what she said.
I do know she will only lose what it costs her for a lawyer.If she bothers to get one.

Hillary is immune. "as she was in the beginning , is now and forever shall be." politics without end Amen.
 

Spitfire

Active Member
Greetings:

For those whose hatred for Hillary is not so strong as to affect your ability to take in information and learn, I direct you to New York Times vs. Sullivan. The legal term of art you'll need to get familiar with is "actual malice", an element which would be required for Ms. Gabbard to succeed in this case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Times_Co._v._Sullivan

There are good jumping off points at the wiki entry, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actual_malice and this bit quoted in below covers it.

"
Actual malice is different from common law malice, a term that indicates spite or ill will. It may also differ from malice as defined in state libel law, as reflected in the 1983 case of Carol Burnett v. National Enquirer, Inc., although states may not define a lower threshold for defamation claims than that required by the First Amendment.[5]

The existence of actual malice may be shown in many ways, as long as the claim is properly supported by admissible evidence.[6] Malice may be proved through any competent evidence, either direct or circumstantial. All of the relevant circumstances surrounding the transaction may be shown, provided they are not too remote, including threats, other defamatory statements, subsequent statements made by the defendant, any circumstances that indicate the existence of rivalry, ill will, or hostility between the parties, and facts that tend to show a reckless disregard of the plaintiff's rights on the part of the defendant.[6]"

So, Gabbard's case will go no where. You can reach that conclusion yourself by clicking through to the wiki piece and following the references.

That brings us to the why. Why is Ms. Gabbard doing this, likely being very well aware this will go nowhere?

Easy. She needs to increase her "surface area" a bit so that she can mount a third party campaign for President.

I hope this helps.
 

Yooper

Up. Identified. Lase. Fire. On the way.
Khizr Kahn spoke on stage and pointed out that his Muslim son would not have been allowed to the States if it were up to Trump.
Yup. Thus, why the Khans have been rebuked.

Just like Cindy Sheehan, the Khans weren't satisfied to honor their son's sacrifice. Instead, they used their son's dead body (who was a volunteer (as in, not drafted), btw) to preach a political point. One could have equally made a point with any number of still living Muslims in service. But that wouldn't have had the effect the Dems (and I can only think, the Khans) wanted.

As far as "attack" goes, one doesn't have to be a snowflake to see what a low blow this was as Trump wasn't excluding Muslims, per se. So it was a cheap shot for gratuitous political points (or am I being redundant here?).

Bottom line, no sympathy from me for the Khans other than for their loss. I served and had something happened to me I would have been really pissed if my parents pulled this kind of a stunt. In fact, I told my wife that if my mom tried to do something stupid to tell her to knock it off (same went for my wife). Because I volunteered. My son served (several combat tours in Afghanistan) and while I would have been sad if something had happened to him (more serious than what did happen to him) I wouldn't have stooped to this shallow political theater. Again, because he volunteered. So yup, eff them. Not because they are Muslim; rather, because they are low-life douches. Trump was absolutely correct to hit back.

--- End of line (MCP)
 
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Yooper

Up. Identified. Lase. Fire. On the way.
Easy. She needs to increase her "surface area" a bit so that she can mount a third party campaign for President.
Could be. And I agree that public figure malice is hard to prove. But I'm not so sure Tulsi fails here. Two reasons.

First, there's been a movement over the past years (on both sides of the political divide) to relook the threshold necessary to successfully sue. Not sure where I stand on this (as in, the solution might be worse than the problem) so I'll offer no other comment at this point.

Second, to me the hinge question is whether Gabbard suffered or benefited as a result of HRC's comments. There's little doubt Clinton's comments were directed at Gabbard and that the sum of the comments was that she was a Russian asset in some way; the key issue will be whether it can be "proved" Clinton meant Gabbard was a known asset working with the Russians or if the Russians were just using Gabbard as a talking point (which is what Clinton's team will say was the case).

Anyway, if Gabbard can "prove" her chances at competing for the Dem nom was adversely affected she might have a case. If her team can't or Clinton's team can "prove" Gabbard benefited (as in, your third-party run comment), then no.

Finally, apropos of nothing, if Gabbard tries a third party run there's gonna be beaucoup third-party action going on (Bloomberg, etc.).

--- End of line (MCP)
 

BOP

Well-Known Member
Could be. And I agree that public figure malice is hard to prove. But I'm not so sure Tulsi fails here. Two reasons.

First, there's been a movement over the past years (on both sides of the political divide) to relook the threshold necessary to successfully sue. Not sure where I stand on this (as in, the solution might be worse than the problem) so I'll offer no other comment at this point.

Second, to me the hinge question is whether Gabbard suffered or benefited as a result of HRC's comments. There's little doubt Clinton's comments were directed at Gabbard and that the sum of the comments was that she was a Russian asset in some way; the key issue will be whether it can be "proved" Clinton meant Gabbard was a known asset working with the Russians or if the Russians were just using Gabbard as a talking point (which is what Clinton's team will say was the case).

Anyway, if Gabbard can "prove" her chances at competing for the Dem nom was adversely affected she might have a case. If her team can't or Clinton's team can "prove" Gabbard benefited (as in, your third-party run comment), then no.

Finally, apropos of nothing, if Gabbard tries a third party run there's gonna be beaucoup third-party action going on (Bloomberg, etc.).

--- End of line (MCP)
I donated to Tulsi's campaign solely based on her punching back against Hill Dawg, even though I consider it to be money down the drain, and despite the fact that I disagree with her on nearly every single issue.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
I donated to Tulsi's campaign solely based on her punching back against Hill Dawg, even though I consider it to be money down the drain, and despite the fact that I disagree with her on nearly every single issue.

Between 2016 and this upcoming election, we're seeing our political system in action for the first time. We saw glimmers of it in the past, but now the gloves are off and they're not trying to hide it anymore.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Democrats relentless fight through lies and corruption to gain more power over decent Americans.


Republicans aren't saints. I'm ashamed to admit that I voted for Mitt Romney. I'm ashamed of John McCain, who was the last straw and why I dumped the Rs as a registered voter. Lindsay Graham is a terrible person who just happens to be on our side for the time being, but make no mistake: he is a disgusting political hack.
 

Kyle

ULTRA-F###ING-MAGA!
PREMO Member
Republicans aren't saints. I'm ashamed to admit that I voted for Mitt Romney. I'm ashamed of John McCain, who was the last straw and why I dumped the Rs as a registered voter. Lindsay Graham is a terrible person who just happens to be on our side for the time being, but make no mistake: he is a disgusting political hack.
No, they're not, but they dont' seem to have the same level of relentless lust that Democrats do, willing to do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING to ANYONE standing in their way to accumulate that power.
 

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
No, they're not, but they dont' seem to have the same level of relentless lust that Democrats do, willing to do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING to ANYONE standing in their way to accumulate that power.

Government itself is inherently the problem and anyone in government, Republican or Democrat, seeks power and will do whatever it take to get it. Typically at the expense of the people who votes them into office and their Constitutional rights.
 

Kyle

ULTRA-F###ING-MAGA!
PREMO Member
Government itself is inherently the problem and anyone in government, Republican or Democrat, seeks power and will do whatever it take to get it. Typically at the expense of the people who votes them into office and their Constitutional rights.
You needn't worry.

The same corrupt Democrat scum running roughshod over the nation these last three years are making certain you have all the hallucinogenic crap you need to stay happily high as a kite.

:yay: :yay:
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
Government itself is inherently the problem and anyone in government, Republican or Democrat, seeks power and will do whatever it take to get it. Typically at the expense of the people who votes them into office and their Constitutional rights.

I am not sure if they seek power or riches.Perhaps both.

I don't see Trump seeking either.
He was already rich and his riches actually went down when he was elected. He isn't writing a book and when he leaves office he won't be traveling the country selling the Presidency like the Clinton's and Obama.
He actually had plenty of power already.
He doesn't take a salary and so far his trade deals certainly have not benefitted him but benefitted America.
He has strengthened our military,and our economy is doing well.

I have lost a lot of my good deal of my liking for George Bush, but again, He had a few bucks when he went into office and he isn't writing books and traveling around selling the Prsidency either.
I see Clinton going into the Presidency with an old car with a rug in the back of it and coming out a rich man, I see Obama making himself a fortune on the way out and I have to wonder why Democrats go into politics.
Reagan didn't use the Presidency to get rich either.
But it's been a long time since Truman when a Democrat went in and came out without being enriched by the Presidency.
 
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