Howard Dean - Master of the Obvious

[rraley]

Uncle Larry, all I can say is, depends on what Democrat gets elected. Some of them ultimately will be classy, others won't be.

 

[vraiblonde]

Uncle Larry

 

[Penn]

Uncle Larry, all I can say is, depends on what Democrat gets elected. Some of them ultimately will be classy, others won't be.

Uncle Larry! OKaaaaaaay

RR, I sat here thinking about your last, and honestly, among the leading mouthpieces on your side of the fence, I'm having a little difficulty selecting any classy ones.

Maybe Joe Lieberman - but he's not in the news that much anymore.

Who was that great Democratic Senator who spoke at the Republican National Convention?

Yeah, there's a man with class.

 

[rraley]

Penn....here's my list of classy Democrats...

Evan Byah
Barack Obama
Brian Schweitzer
Maria Cantwell
Steny Hoyer
Harry Reid
Phil Breedsen
Mark Warner

Some you've heard of, some you haven't. The ones that get the most airtime (Pelosi, Schumer, Hillary Clinton), often aren't the greatest ambassadors. This above list, however, would be great presidents in my estimation.

 

[vraiblonde]

Harry Reid

You're kidding me? You think Harry Reid would make a great President??? Are you high???

Or Steny Hoyer??? The ONLY reason Hoyer keeps getting re-elected is because he has clout on the Hill for Pax - that's it. Otherwise he'd have been out on his ass a long time ago.

 

[vraiblonde]

PS, you'll get your chance to vote for Bayh in '08. You read it here first.

 

[rraley]

You're kidding me? You think Harry Reid would make a great President??? Are you high???

Or Steny Hoyer??? The ONLY reason Hoyer keeps getting re-elected is because he has clout on the Hill for Pax - that's it. Otherwise he'd have been out on his ass a long time ago.

Steny Hoyer is in Congress from the 5th District because he's a Democrat. The reason that he gets 70% is due to his clout. If he didn't have it, the races would be closer to 55% for him.

Anywho, I like his moderation (while he may not be a Zell Miller "moderate" he ain't no liberal). Same goes for Reid and I like Reid's fighting spirit.

As for Evan Byah...he and Mark Warner are my top 2 picks for the 2008 race for the Democratic nomination.

 

[vraiblonde]

Anywho, I like his moderation (while he may not be a Zell Miller "moderate" he ain't no liberal).

Hello. Steny votes lockstep with the liberal agenda. Check his record, schweetie pie.

And Reid's "fighting spirit" is what cost the Democrats in '04.

 

[Penn]

You're kidding me? You think Harry Reid would make a great President??? Are you high???

Or Steny Hoyer??? The ONLY reason Hoyer keeps getting re-elected is because he has clout on the Hill for Pax - that's it. Otherwise he'd have been out on his ass a long time ago.

You beat me to it!!

Harry Reid! He's right up there with Pelosi, Kennedy, Schummer, Boxer and the rest of the loony left. Did he not have to back off a statement he made about the president, or issue an apology for an ill-thought, untimely comment?

Steney Hoyer is a bit lower keyed in the rhetoric aspect, but I've heard some pretty wild things come out of his pie hole too.

The one I do recognize and respect is Evan Byah. He does not always toe the party line, I've noticed.

Barack Obama - looked good in his candidacy, sounds smart and well versed, got elected, etc., but I don't know that much about him, nor have I seen him that much since he did get elected. Jury is still out on him.

The rest are unknowns to me, haven't heard much out of them.

 

[vraiblonde]

Barack Obama - looked good in his candidacy, sounds smart and well versed, got elected, etc., but I don't know that much about him, nor have I seen him that much since he did get elected. Jury is still out on him.

He's a baby - sounds good, from what I've heard, but he just got elected so it's hard to make a call just yet. Nice looking guy, well-spoken, nice looking family. We'll see where he goes.

I know almost zip about Bayh, except my ex-wife worked in the law office that he was using to start his...whaddaya call it?...preliminary campaign launch. She says he's serious and will definitely toss his hat in the ring, barring any dead bodies that turn up under his bed.

 

[Penn]

He's a baby - sounds good, from what I've heard, but he just got elected so it's hard to make a call just yet. Nice looking guy, well-spoken, nice looking family. We'll see where he goes.

I know almost zip about Bayh, except my ex-wife worked in the law office that he was using to start his...whaddaya call it?...preliminary campaign launch. She says he's serious and will definitely toss his hat in the ring, barring any dead bodies that turn up under his bed.

You have an ex-wife? Larry, is that you?

 

[vraiblonde]

You have an ex-wife? Larry, is that you?

No - it's me

 

[Penn]

No - it's me

Your last post - you said you had an ex-wife?

Sorry, did I misspeak?

 

[rraley]

If you look at Obama solely based on his voting record, you will notice that he consistently votes along the liberal line. His way of speaking, however, is unparalleled, and his DNC keynote speech made me want him as my party's nominee over Kerry; it was that good. I suggest you read it if you have a shot and even get the video of it, if possible.

Hoyer, meanwhile, has ADA ratings in the 70-80 range, which is "moderate to liberal." He is pro-free trade, pro-Iraq war, and pro-balanced budgets (supported the BBA).

 

[Bruzilla]

... thirdly in the only election since he took over, the Democratic candidate (who called President Bush a chickenhawk and an SOB) for a congressional seat in Ohio (where the last Democratic candidate only received 28% and where John Kerry only received 35%) came within 4,000 votes of winning. This special election in Ohio in the most Republican district in the state suggests that Democratic organization is working and that perhaps the message is getting clearer and stronger (the RNC spent $500,000 to "bury" the Dem candidate, who is an Iraqi war veteran, but well they couldn't quite do that). Or maybe people are just sick of Republicans dominating all branches of government...in any event, it ain't looking too bad for Democrats.

You know rr... I thank the heavens for people like you every day as you are truly the bellweather for how things are going. I find it so incredible that someone with so much smarts can be so duped into blindly believing their party's spin. But as long as it works for us, it's a good thing.

You're completely right when you re-spew the talking points from the DNC that you listed above. Yes, Paul Hackett did lose by a smaller number than previous Democrats, and yes he was an Iraqi war veteran, and yes the Republicans spent a lot of money to defeat him (as the Democrats spent a lot of money to defeat Jean Schmidt). But as we all know, political spin is taking selected facts and shaping them to support a desired outcome, so there's always some facts ommitted because they don't support the desired outcome, and in this case some of the facts are:

1. Paul Hackett may have called Bush an SOB at some point, and was against the war in Iraq BEFORE he volunteered to go fight in it (go figure that one out), but his campaign did not focus on being anti-war, rather it focused on him having served in the war. He did not come out against any of Bush's policies, instead he either didn't mention them or said that he would review and consider them if he were elected. In short, he did not run an anti-Republican campaign, he ran a highly moderate, i.e., independent, campaign... some would even say he ran as a Republican. Had he run as a true Democrat, and been yelping for environmental needs, gay rights, abortion on demand, etc., he would have been whacked at the polls.

2. He lost by a small number of votes, but Republican voter turnout for the election was at historic lows. Now whether the cause of this lack of Republican turnout was that it's summer and people are on vacation, or not thinking about elections; or that Republicans in Ohio are pretty pissed off at their leadership for tax hikes and other actions in the state they disagree with, is open to interpretation. But, in either case, the small margin of "lose-ery" that you are celebrating was not a result of growing support for a Democrat from moderate and Republican voters, it was a result of a record number of Democratic voters coming out and a record number of Republicans staying home.

So, if you and your fellow Dems want to look at the dark cloud of the Ohio special election and see a bright, sunny, future... by all means go for it. The more deluded you guys are about your futures the better.

 

[Pete]

The present doesn't look fruitful, but the future could be...Democratic epithets are far, far too premature and somewhat misguided in my view.

I know what you mean, I am still waiting for Betamax to come back.

 

[rraley]

Bru, this isn't Democratic spin...from political analysts Charlie Cook and Amy Walter...

For national Republicans looking for lessons from GOP nominee Jean Schmidt's narrow win last night over Democrat Paul Hackett in the special election in Ohio's 2nd Congressional District to replace newly-sworn in U.S. Trade Representative Rob Portman, it is that in this current political environment, being tagged as a "rubber stamp" for this President can be a problem, even in one of the most Republican districts in the country...In short, Republicans in 49 states should take note that the "don't send a rubber stamp for President Bush to Congress" argument very nearly worked in an extremely Republican district, something that should be cause for concern. In Ohio, the lesson should be that virtually nothing is safe given the current climate, and that the climate is unlikely to change before the 2006 election. While it would be a mistake for Democrats to read too much into this special election result since things in Ohio are much worse for the GOP than elsewhere. At the same time, it would be a grave mistake for Republicans to read too little into what happened, as there are plenty of seats that they could lose in Ohio and that some of what happened can be reasonably extrapolated to the rest of the country.

So it ain't landslide proportion, but it ain't bad. You cannot tell me that the job approval ratings of the Republican President, the ratings of his performance on the economy and Iraq, job approval ratings of the Republican Congress, public backlash over a braindead woman, constant reporting of ethics violation surrounding Tom DeLay and "Leakgate" do not worry you. All political barometers point to a potential Democratic gain if the party gets its act together, runs good candidates in vulnerable districts and states, maintain its fundraising ability, and provides a "time for a change" message.

I think that it can happen; and the less that you and hardcore Republicans believe it, the better for our side.

 

[vraiblonde]

Raley, lemme clue ya: at any given time, I would give George Bush a low rating. But I STILL will vote for him over some loony leftist. I can't count how many times I've said "unsatisfactory" in my Zogby poll. But Zogby never asks WHY I'm unsatisfied - I'm unsatisfied when Bush starts acting like some liberal instead of the conservative I voted for.


So don't assume low poll ratings means the country is going granola (to borrow from Christy).

 

[Pete]

Bru, this isn't Democratic spin...from political analysts Charlie Cook and Amy Walter...



So it ain't landslide proportion, but it ain't bad. You cannot tell me that the job approval ratings of the Republican President, the ratings of his performance on the economy and Iraq, job approval ratings of the Republican Congress, public backlash over a braindead woman, constant reporting of ethics violation surrounding Tom DeLay and "Leakgate" do not worry you. All political barometers point to a potential Democratic gain if the party gets its act together, runs good candidates in vulnerable districts and states, maintain its fundraising ability, and provides a "time for a change" message.

I think that it can happen; and the less that you and hardcore Republicans believe it, the better for our side.

No more so than the Democrats worried about Hummers in the oval office, travelgate, white water, Vince Foster, renigging on allowing gays to serve openly, the healthcare fiasco, Chinagate. Politics is a tit for tat business, wish it wasnt. The ONLY people interested in Leakgate, Tom Delay and most of the other triffling crap is the media because it gives them drama to diddle themselves over. Jack and Dianne in Boise could give a rats ass. Iraq and the sluggish economy are issues and the man had conviction and he acted and the economy is improving form the internet crash and the feverish over buying on the stock market Greenspan warned and warned and warned about. I think alot of your pollsters are missing the bulk of Americans who admire a man with conviction who took decisive action and not a Somolia.

To me, all political barometers point to the Democrats crashing and burning because as Dashle learned being an obstructionist chickenshit snarky chest beater and whiner is not what Americans admire. Moveon, NARAL, ACLU, Rainbow/PUSH are not reflective of the BULK of America and NEVER will be.


Barak Obama is charismatic, and popular in his niche, nationally I do not think he could carry a pail of water. Evan Bayhe is a good guy but he has not had national attention focused on him. Until the Democrats can shake off the wild assed freak look they have managed to get I think they will tank. They will continue to rule inner cities and urban areas because of paradigms, it is the rest of America that pinches their nose in disgust like they just smelled something bad when they start with their rhetoric.

As long as someone can point to Al Sharpton and Ted Kennedy and say "Hey that Evan is a decent guy but he is in the same party as those idiots, he will have to walk uphill a long freaking way.

Hillary is the darling of the Dems and I cannot for the life of me figure out why. She doesnt come across as smart, she is as charismatic as a bent trashcan lid, she speaks like a infomercial pitch chic and all she has really done in the senate is stand behind Schumer and pose for photo ops. She has a cult following in the Northeast and the west coast but I don't think they are buying what she is selling anywhere else.

 

[Bogart]

What's the problem? I think the DNC message is very clear and they get it out quite effectively:

George Bush is an evil Nazi and Republicans are stupid rednecks who lynch black people. Dick Cheney is responsible for tsunamis and Condoleeza Rice is a murderer.

What's unclear about that message?

Don't forget; if you don't live in a large coastal city, you are a talentless retard