Hoyer votes against Homeland Security!

[Bruzilla]

Smalltown, what "country" is it that you think that you're protecting? Is it one where the government has virtually unlimited powers to intrude into your personal life? Is it the one where you can be denied life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness based on your religious preferences or nation of origin? Or maybe it's the one where they persecute followers of religions that you don't agree with? If that's the America you're defending, then you're right because that's the America we have become since 9/11.

By the way, not all of the Americans who have died were service members in uniform. They were nurses serving overseas, lawyers representing Americans here and abroad, businessmen, reporters, farmers, hookers, mechanics, fishermen, etc. And how do you choose to recognize their sacrifice? Why... by giving up the things they thought were worth dying for of course!

Why don't you just admit that you are a coward, and would rather live in a totalitarian regime and feel "safe" from the bad guys... albeit at the cost of feeling safe from your own government? That's what you're saying you want to do after all. Don't try to make what you want sound noble, because it isn't. It's just cowardly and selfish.

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by Bruzilla

Why don't you just admit that you are a coward, and would rather live in a totalitarian regime and feel "safe" from the bad guys... albeit at the cost of feeling safe from your own government? That's what you're saying you want to do after all. Don't try to make what you want sound noble, because it isn't. It's just cowardly and selfish.

Funny, my side says the same about your argument.


Life, Liberty, and the Persuit of happiness.

Allowing terrorists to do what they are doing, they are taking away ALL three.. By picking us off while we fly, while we work, while we enjoy ourselves, the TERRORISTS are the ones taking away your rights, not the government.

I suppose you were lobbying at the white house againt President Bush allowing militaty and/or CIA spy planes to help track down the DC sniper? From what I can tell, he was caught before the planes could do any good, but I had no problems with Bush doing this at all. So lets say you were againt the planes (which going by your previous arguments, you had to be) and lets say you knew the government was tracking this sniper. The plane followed the sniper right to a busy inersection where he stopped and put a round into the back of your child's head. If you found out about this tracking, what would you do? would do do nothing because the plane should not have been there in the first place. Or would you be upset, not understanding why the government did not react to what they saw? Eventhough you strictly opposed this tracking in the first place?

People always enjoying the steak, but don't want to know how it was slaughtered.

 

[SmallTown]

Luckily for Bruzilla, there is plenty of privacy when you are dead.

 

[Bruzilla]

Actually Smalltown, I recently learned that you lose a lot of your privacy when you are dead. I heard Heather and T-Bone talking about those family tree websites, and went on one to see what they were all about. I just looked for my maternal Grandmother who passed away, and I found all of her info on the internet, free of charge, including DOB, DOD, SSN... the works. And the info was provided through the familiy tree website courtesy of the Social Security Administration.

 

[vraiblonde]

I'm reading up on the Civil War, since my hubby is such a buff and it's interesting. One thing in particular caught my attention - how Lincoln suspended habeas corpus (sp?) in response to the threat of dissolution of the Union. The public outcry in the South was enormous, calling him a tyrant and a dictator. At first glance, suspending habeas corpus would cause us to raise our eyebrows. But when you look at the big picture, you maybe get a different take on it.

People complain when something like 9-11 happens - "Why didn't someone DO something to prevent this?" Then when the President DOES try to do something to prevent it in the future, people complain about that as well. You can't win.

Kain is right that "privacy" is a figment of our imagination. Now it's just official. I personally have no problem with it because I trust our government to not abuse this power (stop that laughing!). I can see how it would make some people uncomfortable from a civil rights issue. But it's like ol' Abe during the Civil War - what are your alternatives?

 

[Kyle]

As Vrai indicated... The historical truth is, as well, that things like this go away after the threat is eliminated.

So long as it is a part of an ongoing conflict it's fine by me. After we've won the thing then we can start crying bloody murder to have these things removed!