Hudson Helicopter Crash

[BOP]

We had SH3D's aboard Sara 1970, pretty much coal haulers. 72 they had door gunners in VN when they went SAR. Ever use these ole Alamite cans? They always had water and dirt in the bottom, we didn't much gaf 18 hour days, just reset the filters.

USS Saratoga (CVA 60) Vietnam Cruise Book 1972-73 - HS-7

Yeah, the CH/HH-3E and F, if I recall correctly. We had a few of them down at IB when the Big Mothers came home for disestablishment. The ones the Navy had looked different from the ones the AF had. The SH-3 became the CH-3 (alpha, maybe?). It was basically an armored SH-3 with 2 (armored) cargo doors, different fuel tanks, and I forget what else. An OD green SH-3. The HH-3 had different sponsons, an elongated fuselage (armor, of course) and a few other things, but if you looked at the forward section, still looked like an SH-3.

Alamite, or Mermite?

 

[BOP]

Was the "Finger Room" there when you went through Memphis? Finger in a jar 1969 LOL, I heard it was eventually stolen.

It wasn't me.

One of the instructors said "I didn't know you drank until I saw you sober."

I did streak the EM club, though.

Got robbed getting off the bus in Memphis, before we caught the shuttle to Millington.

My father, who had been on one of the straight-deck carriers in the Pacific near the end of WWII (AOM), once told me to put all but $20 in my sock. That way, if I got robbed, I'd only lose $20. My two shipmates from boot camp weren't so lucky. Oh, and it was the usual suspects. As if you couldn't guess.

 

[BOP]

I have a picture of the particular one I did flight test on being used as Nixon's Marine 1.

Right on. I was in HC-1, and was told that that one came from our squadron. I can't remember if it went to NARF-NI, or one of the others. Those are now NADEPs, unless they've changed that, too. Right after WWII, they were called O&R - Overhaul and Repair.

Speaking of that, I've been to the NADEP at Norfolk...pretty danged impressive facility. Got to see a full round of composite repair on the H-1 upgrades tail blades - you know, the water-absorbing composite blades.

 

[BOP]

Tool inventory at start and finish of every shift SOP......... probably started early 80's.

We had those yellow plastic toolboxes with the foam inserts and the metal clips so you could (theoretically) tell at a glance what was missing. You had to check those out from the tool crib. I think Joeshit the Ragman in the tool crib was mad because he couldn't be a Marine armorer. Ask for a tool box and you'd think he thought you were asking to date his sister, or something.

 

[WingsOfGold]

We had those yellow plastic toolboxes with the foam inserts and the metal clips so you could (theoretically) tell at a glance what was missing. You had to check those out from the tool crib. I think Joeshit the Ragman in the tool crib was mad because he couldn't be a Marine armorer. Ask for a tool box and you'd think he thought you were asking to date his sister, or something.

Never used tool crib except for IMRL gear, 120 had our own shadow boxes. When I was a wee lad EACH of us were issued our own small doghouse box. Mine was numbered along with the tools within AF 8. Mostly basic stuff, never inventoried and always came back from cruise with fewer than started with. "Oh, it broke so I threw it over the side". That was also the same time my personal tools also had AF8 in the trunk of my car.
They pay me a little so I take a little was the philosophy.

 

[WingsOfGold]

It wasn't me.

One of the instructors said "I didn't know you drank until I saw you sober."

I did streak the EM club, though.

Got robbed getting off the bus in Memphis, before we caught the shuttle to Millington.

My father, who had been on one of the straight-deck carriers in the Pacific near the end of WWII (AOM), once told me to put all but $20 in my sock. That way, if I got robbed, I'd only lose $20. My two shipmates from boot camp weren't so lucky. Oh, and it was the usual suspects. As if you couldn't guess.

Roll of dimes tied in back of my bosuns tie was effective before civies were allowed ashore overseas.

 

[WingsOfGold]

Yeah, the CH/HH-3E and F, if I recall correctly. We had a few of them down at IB when the Big Mothers came home for disestablishment. The ones the Navy had looked different from the ones the AF had. The SH-3 became the CH-3 (alpha, maybe?). It was basically an armored SH-3 with 2 (armored) cargo doors, different fuel tanks, and I forget what else. An OD green SH-3. The HH-3 had different sponsons, an elongated fuselage (armor, of course) and a few other things, but if you looked at the forward section, still looked like an SH-3.

Alamite, or Mermite?

Alamite..... maybe, don't remember, they got shitcanned late 70's maybe. Helo's to me weren't "really" airplanes, ugly and slow but they brought the mail and sometimes milk when the COD was down.
Notta rotohead

 

[glhs837]

Kinda reminds me of all the Pax engineers lined up at Radio Shack waiting for it to open.

In test you can do all sorts of creative stuff..... as long as its int your test plan. Early 2000s, there was concern about how much force flare firings were imparting back into the airframes. Drug instrumented CH-53E and an AH-1W down the the old seaplane ramp at the test VX-23 hangar. I made a field ground with a hunk of rebar and we strapped them down on the ramp so the flares would hit the water and spent all day watching flares skip along the basin water a few hundred feet before sinking still burning....

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.268...try=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDQwOS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw==

Lol I believe the H3 dates back to 1960, also worked on an EA-6B which was built in the 60s.

I have a picture of the particular one I did flight test on being used as Nixon's Marine 1.

Man, I worked on those, and did some tests on an F-4, EA-6B, and a 46 build in 68. Also got the chance to go to West Palm and run release and control checks on a privately owned OV-10, owner had three of them and planned to rent them as trainers to the Marines. Never happened.

I worked on the same VH-3. Still have some furniture grade plywood bought to convert its cabin back to VH configuration. Dont know if that ever happened, I left not long after that.

Tool inventory at start and finish of every shift SOP......... probably started early 80's.

When I started going out to Boeing in the late Oughts, we did flight line training and the proudly mentioned they had recently instituted beginning and end of shift tool inventory........ My buddy and I were shocked. We entered the Fleet in 1984 and start and finish of task inventory was the rule then, not shift.

 

[glhs837]

Yeah, the CH/HH-3E and F, if I recall correctly. We had a few of them down at IB when the Big Mothers came home for disestablishment. The ones the Navy had looked different from the ones the AF had. The SH-3 became the CH-3 (alpha, maybe?). It was basically an armored SH-3 with 2 (armored) cargo doors, different fuel tanks, and I forget what else. An OD green SH-3. The HH-3 had different sponsons, an elongated fuselage (armor, of course) and a few other things, but if you looked at the forward section, still looked like an SH-3.

Alamite, or Mermite?

There was an HH-60 for a while. Not armored though, as I recall.

 

[PeoplesElbow]

In test you can do all sorts of creative stuff..... as long as its int your test plan. Early 2000s, there was concern about how much force flare firings were imparting back into the airframes. Drug instrumented CH-53E and an AH-1W down the the old seaplane ramp at the test VX-23 hangar. I made a field ground with a hunk of rebar and we strapped them down on the ramp so the flares would hit the water and spent all day watching flares skip along the basin water a few hundred feet before sinking still burning....

Pretty sure I was involved in that same test, very early in my career, I was expecting a huge firework like explosion, man was i disappointed to just see a small pop-fizzz.

Radio Shack components had so much variability they weren't good for much of anything requiring any tolerance at all, they were ok to breadboard up a proof of concept though since the good stuff often required a minimum order and could have a significant wait time.

 

[glhs837]

Pretty sure I was involved in that same test, very early in my career, I was expecting a huge firework like explosion, man was i disappointed to just see a small pop-fizzz.

Radio Shack components had so much variability they weren't good for much of anything requiring any tolerance at all, they were ok to breadboard up a proof of concept though since the good stuff often required a minimum order and could have a significant wait time.

Yep, bright but otherwise not very exciting. Missiles love em though........ I was there as the tech for that test. Went to do it again a few years later and the environmental folks freaked out....... burning magnesium/teflon? Oh hell no. So I took a Cobra wing out to Crane so we could test the new dual dispenser pod. We also had a chunk of 53 in the lab backside of 2187 where we used a slide hammer to simulate dispenses.

 

[PeoplesElbow]

Yep, bright but otherwise not very exciting. Missiles love em though........ I was there as the tech for that test. Went to do it again a few years later and the environmental folks freaked out....... burning magnesium/teflon? Oh hell no. So I took a Cobra wing out to Crane so we could test the new dual dispenser pod. We also had a chunk of 53 in the lab backside of 2187 where we used a slide hammer to simulate dispenses.

Lol so that's why there wasn't a follow on. Those were my peeps in 2187.

 

[LightRoasted]

For your consideration ...

What happens when you forget to tighten the Jesus nut.

Actually ...... It's if one forgets to safety wire the torqued 7/16 bolt that secures the key lock that engages the grooves of the Jesus Nut. It all comes down to that safety wire. If I remember correctly, on a UH-1 and AH-1 the Jesus Nut was torqued to about 625 Foot Pounds, which was backed up with that safetied bolt.


On the New York helo, it could be that the lift link, or associated framing, failed.

 

[PeoplesElbow]

For your consideration ...





Actually ...... It's if one forgets to safety wire the torqued 7/16 bolt that secures the key lock that engages the grooves of the Jesus Nut. It all comes down to that safety wire. If I remember correctly, on a UH-1 and AH-1 the Jesus Nut was torqued to about 625 Foot Pounds, which was backed up with that safetied bolt.


On the New York helo, it could be that the lift link, or associated framing, failed.

Safety wire is just a backup to help keep the bolt from loosening, if the bolt isn't worn and is torqued properly it shouldn't loosen. Fasteners that are not meant to be reused are often reused, once they are reused their holding power to keep them from coming loose is greatly diminished.

 

[LightRoasted]

For your consideration ...

Safety wire is just a backup to help keep the bolt from loosening, if the bolt isn't worn and is torqued properly it shouldn't loosen. Fasteners that are not meant to be reused are often reused, once they are reused their holding power to keep them from coming loose is greatly diminished.

Yeah I know. But even in the best of circumstances, torqued properly, with a new bolt, it could still come loose. Hence the need for the safety wire. There has been study after study, research after research, after aircraft incidences that identified the need for safety wire.

Never really replaced any bolts nor castellated nuts, unless there was visible questionable wear. (Referring to non safety of flight fasteners) However, never ever reused those prevailing torque nuts. And always took a tare reading to add to the specified torque called for.

 

[PeoplesElbow]

For your consideration ...





Yeah I know. But even in the best of circumstances, torqued properly, with a new bolt, it could still come loose. Hence the need for the safety wire. There has been study after study, research after research, after aircraft incidences that identified the need for safety wire.

Never really replaced any bolts nor castellated nuts, unless there was visible questionable wear. (Referring to non safety of flight fasteners) However, never ever reused those prevailing torque nuts. And always took a tare reading to add to the specified torque called for.

I'm a fan of castellated nuts, thankfully I'm not the guy that has to do them.

Did have a Navy QA trying to show off his safety wiring skills to me once for him to actually do it backwards, man his face was red when I pointed out that it looked really nice but was the wrong direction. He held a grudge after that.

I was part of a study before that drilled out a large bolt and put gages inside of it, the point was to show how accurate torque was as an indicator of tension on the bolt. It varied by as much as 50% depending on some very small factors.

 

[glhs837]

Lol so that's why there wasn't a follow on. Those were my peeps in 2187.

Between the structural lab guys, and the Cargo lab guys and the ALSS folks, I've had some fun times over there. The poor intern whose job was to **** and release the slide hammer all summer didn't have a lot of fun. Needed a LOT of data points.

 

[glhs837]

I'm a fan of castellated nuts, thankfully I'm not the guy that has to do them.

Every time I'm working with engineers on new stuff, I get tagged early as the hardware ahole. I demand that we think about 20-40 years of mechanics who will be working on this stuff in deserts and the arctic after 14 hour shifts with the worst tools. Screw RTV seals on panels, no swaz tips, washers should be captive where ever possible, that sort of thing. I don't mind castellated nuts. but don't you dare place one where I cant see the damn hole in the bolt. The frikin APU fire bottle on the 53 required one mech to stand in the cabin with three feet of extension poked up through the roof, and one up top to keep the nut the bolt was going to tight since it wasnt captive.

"Meh, sailor/marine time is free" I hear. Money free doesn't mean there's not a cost...