I am pretty sure there are WORSE Countries For The POOR

[Lurk]

About the topic at hand; why the US is so bad for poor people. Sam gave you a first hand account of why. Beyond that, if you take into account the debilitating results of how we do welfare, the generational disability it tends to inflict on beneficiaries, you could see the argument Newt and so many others on the right used to be able to make.

Jeez. I just reread Sam's post and there was nothing in there that supported the Bernie Sanders statement. I don't see that Sam edited his post anytime either. So point out to me where Sam said anything that says America is the worst place to be poor.

 

[GURPS]

Jeez. I just reread Sam's post and there was nothing in there that supported the Bernie Sanders statement.

yeah I don't see it either ....

 

[SamSpade]

:shrug:


about ?

Yeah not seeing it either. Maybe he doesn't get that every person, every facilitator, every shop owner - everyone we saw there was from Ethiopia.
The entire post was about another country.

One thing about our visit - at one point, one of our much younger facilitators explained that "a long time ago, there was a famine in Ethiopia" and it became clear that she was referring the Live Aid era. My wife and I looked at each other and said "uhhh - we both remember that - it wasn't that long ago" and she answered "well it was before I was born". The other staff that was with us had written a book on Ethiopian history (which we bought for our daughter) and he explained something that I actually didn't know - the socialist government (and war) were the biggest culprits in that event. Drought certainly was the cause, but the government was responsible for making it so dire.

 

[Larry Gude]

Yeah not seeing it either. Maybe he doesn't get that every person, every facilitator, every shop owner - everyone we saw there was from Ethiopia.
The entire post was about another country.

One thing about our visit - at one point, one of our much younger facilitators explained that "a long time ago, there was a famine in Ethiopia" and it became clear that she was referring the Live Aid era. My wife and I looked at each other and said "uhhh - we both remember that - it wasn't that long ago" and she answered "well it was before I was born". The other staff that was with us had written a book on Ethiopian history (which we bought for our daughter) and he explained something that I actually didn't know - the socialist government (and war) were the biggest culprits in that event. Drought certainly was the cause, but the government was responsible for making it so dire.

Maybe I misunderstood your point. I took you to be saying that, universally, when you try and do too much for people, you make their situation worse. Yes? No?

If so, then, Sanders can be understood to be saying that very thing, that the US is the worst place to be poor because, institutionally, we tend to make people even more dependent, thus, worse. Sanders doesn't need to mean that to be right. He can be right bit nor for the reasons perhaps he meant. So, what was your point?

 

[SamSpade]

So, what was your point?

Well most of it was just, we've seen poverty in Ethiopia, and it's worse there than here.

 

[Larry Gude]

Well most of it was just, we've seen poverty in Ethiopia, and it's worse there than here.

Objectively, I get that. It is, physically, worse. Clearly so. I understood you to be talking about what to DO about it, how not to make it worse. Put another way, it's better to be poor in Ethiopia AND be taking responsibility, working FOR better than to be poor in America and have you life hopeless and over at an early age because you've basically become a ward of the state because the state made you so.

 

[GURPS]

- he ran on MORE Giveaways
how would that have not made matters worse ....

Welfare was never supposed to be a multi-generational Life Time Achievement Award

 

[Larry Gude]

- he ran on MORE Giveaways
how would that have not made matters worse ....

Welfare was never supposed to be a multi-generational Life Time Achievement Award

As I say, I think we could all agree Bernie is right but not for the reasons he may have meant.

 

[b23hqb]

Well most of it was just, we've seen poverty in Ethiopia, and it's worse there than here.

That's how I took your post. Where you just touring or on some kind of mission - "facilitator" caught my eye. Just curious. I was there for 2 1/2 years, and managed to see many historical cities and sites, along with a camera safari to Kenya with Navy buds. Poverty is rampant in the cities, while the countryside itself was pretty much self-sufficient, with the normal rains and stable govt, for the most part, until the Cuban-inspired Mengistu took control in his coup.

I agree with your take on sponsored program. My wife and I sponsor two young boys - one in India and one in Honduras through Compassion International. They work wonders, and know where the money needs to go. Church based programs are by far the best and most efficient. No need for any UN or Bernies. Those types just waste money.

 

[Kyle]

For as much money as the Clinton foundation received every Haitian should be a millionaire.

Make me wonder how they qualify as a charity at all.

 

[Larry Gude]

F

Make me wonder how they qualify as a charity at all.

When you're in power...you use it. :shrug:

 

[Hijinx]

When you're in power...you use it. :shrug:

Good answer, and a correct one.

 

[SamSpade]

That's how I took your post. Where you just touring or on some kind of mission - "facilitator" caught my eye.

We tend to use that more than "translator". We were there to adopt, so our contacts put together the rides, the paper work, the interviews at the Embassy - they made sure it all got done. They taught classes, drove us across the country and so on. It was still fascinating to hear all they had to tell us, and they talked quite a bit.

Every nation we've been to, to adopt, has been different. Ethiopia was probably the closest to "fun" because most of the adopting families were in the same place, and there was a common area where we hung out together. It was a small hotel with no more than a dozen suites, and half at any time are by adopting families.
We ate in the same area and did all our stuff together. And it was a good crowd. Sadly, we rarely left the hotel - but mainly because, there was no place really to go. The only place was a small kiosk, and they didn't have much.

 

[Merlin99]

And THAT is why Bernie is correct.

Good post, sam!

I'm not seeing that response as having to do anything with Sam's memoir.

 

[Merlin99]

As I say, I think we could all agree Bernie is right but not for the reasons he may have meant.

It depends on whose POV you use, humanities as a whole or the poor. The US's idea of dragging the indigent along at all costs is definitely bad for the world as a whole. If you can't make it in this country, in this climate, your essentially too stupid to live. This country has more opportunities to not only succeed, but to actually get rich than any country in the history of the world.

 

[Larry Gude]

It depends on whose POV you use, humanities as a whole or the poor. The US's idea of dragging the indigent along at all costs is definitely bad for the world as a whole. If you can't make it in this country, in this climate, your essentially too stupid to live. This country has more opportunities to not only succeed, but to actually get rich than any country in the history of the world.

Again, my point is that Sanders is correct and not for the reasons he probably meant.

 

[PsyOps]

Again, my point is that Sanders is correct and not for the reasons he probably meant.

What were the reasons he "probably meant"?