I Have a Confession to Make

[Larry Gude]

I know Larry; we all have sub-simple minds. .

That's the maddening part. You don't. What most have, and I certainly include myself in this, is partisan minds. We, human beings, want to associate with a group. Once we're on the team, our critical faculties take a walk. A long one. You have to want to stop it and most don't. You have to be interested in critiquing your own. Most aren't, it's not the reason they joined a group.

 

[This_person]

Ok, then let's dumb it all the way down; what is on your list of great things we no longer have or do.

Before you begin, you do realize that the Constitution leaves firearm regulation to the states, yes? You have the federal right to keep and bear, and yes, it gets violated all the time, but the states have the right to apply terms and conditions.

Well, I disagree with the 2A comments you make. Constitution is supreme law, constitution says everything NOT given to the federal is given to the states or the people, and the constitution says "shall not be infringed". Seems pretty clear.

How about the ability to travel within the bounds of the US without having to produce papers, and subject myself to warrantless search and seizure?

How about being able to drive around my home county without having to be subject to warrantless search, just because it is a certain time of dayand I might have been drinking?

How about the right to NOT buy products I might choose not to buy? (such as health insurance)

How about the ability to converse electronically without having my conversations recorded by the government in direct violation of the 4th?

How about my state having a direct voice in the federal government through their appointed senators?

How about no standing army?

How about a balanced federal budget, with no Federal Reserve?

After that, we can talk the second term of a conservative president.

 

[This_person]

Well, I disagree with the 2A comments you make. Constitution is supreme law, constitution says everything NOT given to the federal is given to the states or the people, and the constitution says "shall not be infringed". Seems pretty clear.

How about the ability to travel within the bounds of the US without having to produce papers, and subject myself to warrantless search and seizure?

How about being able to drive around my home county without having to be subject to warrantless search, just because it is a certain time of dayand I might have been drinking?

How about the right to NOT buy products I might choose not to buy? (such as health insurance)

How about the ability to converse electronically without having my conversations recorded by the government in direct violation of the 4th?

How about my state having a direct voice in the federal government through their appointed senators?

How about no standing army?

How about a balanced federal budget, with no Federal Reserve?

After that, we can talk the second term of a conservative president.

And, Larry, I didn't even begin to talk about the sexist/racist tax system aimed at hurting older white males worse than anyone else.

I didn't talk about lobbyists controlling legislation (the idea of "lobbying" of course coming with Pres Grant in the lobby of the Willard Hotel) since the 1870's.

I didn't talk about prior to 1913, when the government ran pretty well (except in times of war) on no income tax (yes, I know, from the Civil war to 1872 there was a 3% tax, and again 1894-5 there was a tax, but in 1895 SCOTUS said income tax was unconstitutional blah blah blah - other than that one war, we did just fine without income tax), but now we have tax rate of just shy of 40% for the financially-successful, not including Soc Sec, Medicare, and other non-discussed taxes. Any chance we could talk about how that should change?

 

[Larry Gude]

I didn't talk about prior to 1913, when the government ran pretty well (except in times of war) on no income tax (yes, I know, from the Civil war to 1872 there was a 3% tax, and again 1894-5 there was a tax, but in 1895 SCOTUS said income tax was unconstitutional blah blah blah - other than that one war, we did just fine without income tax), but now we have tax rate of just shy of 40% for the financially-successful, not including Soc Sec, Medicare, and other non-discussed taxes. Any chance we could talk about how that should change?

Sure. Which part?

 

[Gilligan]

We, human beings, want to associate with a group.

Not me.

 

[Larry Gude]

Not me. H]

Ist.

 

[Gilligan]

Ist.

I strive to be unique...an island...aloof and independent... That's why I ride Harleys.

 

[Larry Gude]

I strive to be unique...an island...aloof and independent... That's why I ride Harleys.

You know exactly how many Strat riders?

 

[Gilligan]

You know exactly how many Strat riders?

:rats: Point.

 

[This_person]

Sure. Which part?

I gave two posts in direct response to you asking what it is I think we're without. I assumed you asked the question to discuss the list, or provide a list of when YOU think we were great, or something.

 

[Larry Gude]

I gave two posts in direct response to you asking what it is I think we're without. I assumed you asked the question to discuss the list, or provide a list of when YOU think we were great, or something.

I already said I think we're greatest now. I sure don't think pre 1913 age of the robber barons was best.

 

[This_person]

I already said I think we're greatest now. I sure don't think pre 1913 age of the robber barons was best.

So, you believe that daily violations of the Constitution to millions of Americans is a sign of being the greatest? Then we disagree. I believe we have a potential for being our greatest, and it is in the future, not the past or the present.

 

[Larry Gude]

So, you believe that daily violations of the Constitution to millions of Americans is a sign of being the greatest? Then we disagree. I believe we have a potential for being our greatest, and it is in the future, not the past or the present.

Ah, that's not the qiestion, is it, the future and the possibilities and potential? The question "make America great again" and what and when that was. We agree we can be better. Where we don't agree is that I think right now is the time when the constitution and D of I are most honored and lived up to. There were never times when they were not both being violeted, daily and deeply. I think now it is the least and the most broadly honoring of our principles.

 

[This_person]

Ah, that's not the qiestion, is it, the future and the possibilities and potential? The question "make America great again" and what and when that was. We agree we can be better. Where we don't agree is that I think right now is the time when the constitution and D of I are most honored and lived up to. There were never times when they were not both being violeted, daily and deeply. I think now it is the least and the most broadly honoring of our principles.

All citizens are routinely subject to 4th amendment violations, we have governmental racist and sexist policies, the states have been essentially removed from representation in the federal government...but, Chuck and Bill can register their relationship with the federal and state governments, so all is better? I disagree.