Issue #1...Free speech...

Free speech or kinda free?

  • Free means free ZERO limits

    Votes: 2 11.1%
  • Limits on 'shouting fire' in a crowded theatre (public safety)

    Votes: 14 77.8%
  • Limits on political speech

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Deceny limits (call it the 'Stern' amendment)

    Votes: 2 11.1%

  • Total voters
    18
  • Poll closed .

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Government should not censor speech, press, media or Internet



Campaign finance reform is a clear limit on free speech.

Where do we stand? (Multiple choice)
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Feel free to help form this...

...'legislation'.

I wanna get to what a strong majority of us agree on. Call it 66% in favor.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
This should have been a multiple choice, as in you can choose more than one thing.

I choose free speech:
Except for public safety
and
Except for decency
 

Toxick

Splat
The only reason I'd override freedom of speech would be in the interest of public safety.



I'm capable of deciding for myself what's indecent, and what I'd like to say politically.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Toxick said:
I'm capable of deciding for myself what's indecent,
So you'd say that pure porn on network channels at 7pm is okay?

How about commercials that show full-frontal nudity or sex acts?
 

Midnightrider

Well-Known Member
vraiblonde said:
So you'd say that pure porn on network channels at 7pm is okay?

How about commercials that show full-frontal nudity or sex acts?
sounds good to me......

actually i wouldn't have a problem with either, but i would probably set up the DVR to block that stuff unless I wanted to see it. Its not that much different that what we have now. With my satilite service i have to block a lot of the stuff so my teenager doesn't watch or order what i have determined to be inappropriate for him. Although i don't want that stuff blocked in case i feel its completely appropriate for me.
 

Tonio

Asperger's Poster Child
I don't like the idea of decently limits because the definition of decency is too subjective. Traditionally, liberals have fretted about violence on TV and conservatives have fretted about sex. And as a parent, I don't like the idea of someone else deciding what is appropriate for my children to watch, as if I'm too stupid to make that decision myself.

I agree with Larry that campaign finance reform goes against the idea of freedom of speech. I also believe that politicians turning themselves into whores for big contributors goes against the idea of democracy in general. I can think of two compromises acceptable to me: either public financing of campaigns, or TV stations allocating free time to candidates as a condition of their licenses.
 

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
Tonio said:
I agree with Larry that campaign finance reform goes against the idea of freedom of speech. I also believe that politicians turning themselves into whores for big contributors goes against the idea of democracy in general. I can think of two compromises acceptable to me: either public financing of campaigns, or TV stations allocating free time to candidates as a condition of their licenses.
Campaign Finance Reform limiting contributions from businesses and organizations I can live with, restricting the amount that an individual citizen gives inhibits free speech for me.
 

MMDad

Lem Putt
vraiblonde said:
So you'd say that pure porn on network channels at 7pm is okay?

How about commercials that show full-frontal nudity or sex acts?
The only reason that stuff would be on is the same reason people push the limits today: people watch it. I'd rather vote with my wallet. If a show offends me today, I change the channel. Why should I trust someone with the morals of Ted Kennedy, Tom DeLay, "Duke" Cunningham, etc. decide what is okay for me to watch?

Honestly, if the restrictions were lifted today, do you think every channel would suddenly be flooded? TV channels have to find their niche and cater to it.

It's like this forum. Legally, you could allow all kinds of smut, but you don't because your advertisers would bolt. Why is that? Because their customers would let them know they will lose business. Do you think that wouldn't be true in TV and Radio?

You seem a bit libertarian, but this view doesn't fit a lot of your other views.
 

Toxick

Splat
vraiblonde said:
So you'd say that pure porn on network channels at 7pm is okay?


Don't be ridiculous. And we've had this conversation before.

Nothing good will result from it.
 

Mikeinsmd

New Member
Toxick said:
The only reason I'd override freedom of speech would be in the interest of public safety.
I'm capable of deciding for myself what's indecent, and what I'd like to say politically.
:yay:
 

Tonio

Asperger's Poster Child
MMDad said:
The only reason that stuff would be on is the same reason people push the limits today: people watch it. I'd rather vote with my wallet. If a show offends me today, I change the channel. Why should I trust someone with the morals of Ted Kennedy, Tom DeLay, "Duke" Cunningham, etc. decide what is okay for me to watch?

It's like this forum. Legally, you could allow all kinds of smut, but you don't because your advertisers would bolt. Why is that? Because their customers would let them know they will lose business. Do you think that wouldn't be true in TV and Radio?

Excellent point. I think the marketplace does a much better job of controlling smut than the government ever could. When it comes to regulating the content of the airwaves, I don't trust the motives of any politician or bureaucrat.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
My feeling about free speech can be summed up with a handful of quotes, two of them from Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.

"The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theater"

And

"Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins".

Both of these illustrate that while people may feel free to express any utterance they will, there are dire consequences. You can, for example, give your opinion - but you can't lie in court under oath. If your wife asks if her dress makes her look fat, you can say "hell yeah" but be prepared for a fat lip. (There's only ONE response to this question - jump out the window. This includes instances where you are ten stories up, because believe me, falling ten stories is STILL better than what you'll face, otherwise).

Lastly - with regard to "free speech".

"Yes, we have free speech in Russia - what we don't have, is freedom AFTER speech" - Yakov Smirnoff, circa 1990.

Freedom of speech means that the GOVERNMENT cannot restrict your ability to say what you want about the government - it does not mean you can say whatever you want, say, in this forum - or in my house. Your first amendment rights only mean that the government possesses no right to abridge your speech - it by no means gives anyone the right to say whatever they want at any time, without consequence. NO ONE has that right.
 

Vince

......
vraiblonde said:
This should have been a multiple choice, as in you can choose more than one thing.

I choose free speech:
Except for public safety
and
Except for decency
:yeahthat: And add "Except for wartime" The military should have the right to censor anything that comes out of the media during wartime that will endanger or cause to endanger troops, etc. And I say this only because the news media is too stupid to know what and what not to say.
 

SmallTown

Football season!
Vince said:
:yeahthat: And add "Except for wartime" The military should have the right to censor anything that comes out of the media during wartime that will endanger or cause to endanger troops, etc. And I say this only because the news media is too stupid to know what and what not to say.

none of us believe what we see in the media, why should our enemies?
 

Vince

......
Larry Gude said:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/25/AR2006042500893.html


I don't think he's talking to just to see himself on the front page. They've been waging a public opinion campaign from day one. Viet Nam also comes to mind. As does Iran and North Korea nowadays.

PR has ALWAYS played a role in war.
Sounds like WWII Propaganda. Instead of Tokyo Rose on the radio, you've got video now. I just don't feel our media has the right to divulge troop locations, etc. on the TV or anything else that will endanger our troops. I think this was done during Desert Storm by old what's his name. TV talk show host? :confused:
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Yeah...

Vince said:
Sounds like WWII Propaganda. Instead of Tokyo Rose on the radio, you've got video now. I just don't feel our media has the right to divulge troop locations, etc. on the TV or anything else that will endanger our troops. I think this was done during Desert Storm by old what's his name. TV talk show host? :confused:


...certainly, at some point when ol' Baghdad Bob is declaring victory all day every day with a M1 two blocks away, it becomes a joke but, your point is taken.

You're thinking of Geraldo, BTW, I think, and it was this time around, back in 2003 during the initial invasion. He was all Rambo'd out and acting the part, hanging with the grunts and said something he shouldn't on the air. He got in some trouble but was seen as good guy who goofed, not Hanoi Geraldo.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
Vince said:
Sounds like WWII Propaganda. Instead of Tokyo Rose on the radio, you've got video now. I just don't feel our media has the right to divulge troop locations, etc. on the TV or anything else that will endanger our troops. I think this was done during Desert Storm by old what's his name. TV talk show host? :confused:

Geraldo, most likely.

I think the media's problem with material concerning the war is, they don't consider it a war. I don't know what they think we're doing, but because there aren't huge battles and bombs dropping out of the sky, it's just not a war, and we should just leave it alone. Since they minimize it as such, they can freely ridicule or criticize it, because it's not as though anything they say is gonna cost us the loss of a fleet or a major city.
 
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