Larry Gude
Strung Out
No. Slavery was decided by the Declaration of Independence. We simply spent four score and 9 years fighting over the definition of 'man'.
It wasn't about Christians...
- Thread starter PsyOps
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No. Slavery was decided by the Declaration of Independence. We simply spent four score and 9 years fighting over the definition of 'man'.
Blister
Active Member
Slavery is still alive and thriving today. By far the worst offenders are not white southern U.S. plantation owners. I'm sure Obama doesn't want acknowledge the skin color or religion of the majority of modern slaveholders.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/10/17/this-map-shows-where-the-worlds-30-million-slaves-live-there-are-60000-in-the-u-s/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/10/17/this-map-shows-where-the-worlds-30-million-slaves-live-there-are-60000-in-the-u-s/
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This_person
Well-Known Member
The Constitution, written after the Declaration of Independence and actually having some legally binding status, left that question to the states.
PsyOps
Pixelated
The only thing Christianity was used for was coming to this land to escape religious tyranny. What you can infer, by extension, is those Christians instituted slavery because they believed it fell within their Christian values at the time. But there was no “Christ made me do it” mentality; especially in the context of how Muslims are launching Jihad on the world. Obama’s comparison is so far off the mark you can’t get it back on with a zero-radius lawnmower.
My intent is how Obama turned his speech into an opportunity make the whole ‘all religions have committed evil’ diatribe a racial issue. Knowing full-well he never fails to invoke race into an issue, knowing race is central to his world view, I am convinced he was taking a poke at white Christians.
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Midnightrider
Well-Known Member
There was no racial element to the clip you posted, that's all coming from you. You are jut as bad as Sharpton in seeing race or racism everywhere.
But yes, the bible was used to justify slavery, and you better believe many slaveholders believed it was their god given duty and right as a christian to hold slaves.
Racism is everywhere. Coming from you, islam, Asia, everywhere. Just accept that. People are people. Sin is sin. Always has been, always will be.
Slavery as it is known ended here 150 years ago. Half a million Americans paid the price for that decision.
Just because, as you stated, in your opinion that they "had to do it" - "many slaveholders believed it was their god given duty and right as a christian to hold slaves", I ask you to prove that. They did it because they could, by law. Show me where any of those individual "slave owners" did it based on their accounting of what the Bible preached.
You can't, and you won't.
Some people were as ignorant 150 years ago as you are today.
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Midnightrider
Well-Known Member
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Just to be perfectly clear, the President's remarks are an embarrassing absurdity, but sadly, not news. He can do nothing more to set in stone his intellectual weakness and vacuity. Frankly, his Professor Gates farce settled that issue virtually day one. From there it has been nothing but a slow, steady realization by his friends of the cost of their faith in the presumed strength of his mind. Again, the GOP ought to be toasting and honoring him at every chance for doing the work they refused to do; defeat him.
Now, as to Christianity and slavery in the US, to be sure, Christian values very much helped lead to its abolition AND, in the South, very much supported it's retention. If you say Christianity is not the cause of slavery in the US, you're suggesting a lot of very devout people suddenly realized it was right there in front of them and said "Oh, well. Best leave well enough alone." Southern slave owners were VERY devout Christians, by and large.
As for abolitionists, very devout as well and in that faith VERY anti slavery, very few, and none of power, considered the races equal. Creation all well and good but, devout Northern abolitionists willing to risk civil war over the issue, in fact, seeking war to settle it spent very little time pondering what it would mean once achieved.
In 1865 the US had ended slavery as a legal matter, had settled the issue of dominance between the states, was still very Christian and absolutely STILL viewed blacks, in general, as inferior. That is just historical fact.
There is no doubt slavery an evil and one that was stoutly supported, and opposed, by Christianity in the US.
You're right there - now show me in the Bible, or from any past slaveholder, that they are obeying God by being a slaveholder.
Not from what someone wrote about it.
Stick with your original premise that those that held slaves were driven by god to do such.
Wrong on the second sentence. The debate was fourscore and seven years - The war to decide the debate lasted four years.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Ha! in context of what I said, 4 score and 9 years was when the issue was decided. 4 score and 7, the war was not won.
Midnightrider
Well-Known Member
You need to read that passage again.
Here is a link to the full text.
http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/document/a-southern-christian-view-of-slavery/
That's a Christian preacher arguing that it would be wrong to not own slaves because that's how it was in the bible.
CleanTheSlateInSMC
Infidel
I never said Christ justified slavery. I said that christian Americans used their faith and bible to justify the enslavement.
Hijinx
Well-Known Member
It doesn't really matter how you said it , either way you are full of sheit.
They didn't have any need to use the bible or any other justification, it was legal and expected in that time.
Midnightrider
Well-Known Member
It wasn't legal in all of the states, and it was certainly a hot topic at the founding. Prior to that slavery was slowly being abolished around the world
Hijinx
Well-Known Member
Slavery was at one time all over the United States. Then there were Bond servants and debtors who were treated like slaves.
As time went on the North did not need slavery so it was slowly abolished, but even so it was around 1840 before some Northern states did away with it.
Truly the north did not need slaves they had the Irish who were treated as slaves or worse.
Many slaves came here with the Spanish and Portugese and it is a historical fact that slaves brought to this country were brought in on ships belonging to the British, Dutch and Northern shipholders who claimed hypocritically not to support slavery. I haven't been able to find any documentation of Southern shipholders running slaves.
Probably because there were few Southern shipholders.
not about taking slaves, but owning them ....
Leviticus 25:44-46New International Version (NIV)
44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
there are sections about selling your - younger than 12 - daughter
... treatment of slaves, 7th yr freeing of all slaves and giving them, livestock and wine when you release them
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_slavery
unfortunately any search for Bible and Slavery - the 1st 5 pages are atheists and Christ haters - so one must dig through the chaff
although in 1 Samuel 15:13 - Samuel denounces Saul, because he was supposed to kill the Amalekites, instead bringing back slaves, live stock ... etc
18and the LORD sent you on a mission, and said, 'Go and utterly destroy the sinners, the Amalekites, and fight against them until they are exterminated.'…
19"Why then did you not obey the voice of the LORD, but rushed upon the spoil and did what was evil in the sight of the LORD?"…
CleanTheSlateInSMC
Infidel
Spoken like a true tea party loyalist of the Palin variety. When you just don't have a rational argument for your irrational position, you resort to insults and name calling.
Hijinx
Well-Known Member
Gee I wonder where I got that from. Do you see the irony in your post?
No---you don't.