Jefferson, the American Mind and the Birth of Amer

[EmptyTimCup]

 

[JollyRoger]

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation

 

[sunman1_67]

AND THAT'S CHANGE YOU CAN BELIEVE IN!

 

[Alexa]

I very much agree with those words. However, kind of off topic, your posting this struck me odd. In another post in which I asked the question about what conservatism meant, you replied with a mantra on the constitution party. Believe it or not, I actually read through everything you posted and your links.

One of the major problems I have in the party beliefs is the assumption that the "Creator" and "God" that is referred to in the founding documents is the "Christian" God. However, when reading the biographies of many of the founders, it was clear that not all of them were "Christians", especially Jefferson. He was a deitist (sp?), in that he believed in a higher power and creator, but not necessarily the "Christian" interpretation of God. Franklin wasn't particularly religious either; while others still were, but differed a bit with others in their beliefs.

Another reason that many of the settlers came to these shores was to escape from religious persecution in England. It is why a great amount of Puritans came, but Quakers (considered radicals) and the like came too. The persecutions in England had to do with the interpretation of the "Bible" itself (Oh the irony.) and it is my understanding that the founding fathers, given the environment of the time, were very adamant about separating "church" and "state" because of it and very careful in their wording. Not one of the documents directly makes any statements to a "Christian" God, but to God and/or Creator. It is my understanding this was intentionally left up to interpretation, so that freedoms to practice their religion would not be thwarted in anyway at all.

However, the doctrine of the Constitution party insists that the founding fathers just had to be referring to the "Christian" interpretation of God.
I find this quite confusing for on one hand the party insists on going back to the documents as salvation for the country as it stands [I'm up for that], but then on the other hand, dictates what the founding fathers mean by "God and/or "Creator". Doesn't this go against the core of what the founding fathers envisioned?

I'm not being confrontational here, just asking, I may be misunderstanding?....:shrug:

 

[This_person]

Sadly most of the historical revisionists havent even read the Declaration of Independence. The Mission Statement of why they fought for our Independence.

If they had, maybe they'd notice the God mentioned in the document, is not the same God they (the revisionists) follow. The wording is pretty specific, its actually a description of the Deist belief of their Higher entity, but its definitly not a Christian flavor of a Higher Being.

Since they all pretty much went back and forth in their religious views throughout their lives, it's hard to say definitively what they meant. It's equally difficult to say what they meant based on the audience they knew they were appealing to.

It seems most likely to me that they merely meant "God", "Creator", "Supreme Judge of the World" (the references in the Declaration) intentionally ambiguously, to meet whichever God the reader chose to self-impose into their reading of the document.

 

[EmptyTimCup]

I'm not being confrontational here, just asking, I may be misunderstanding?....:shrug:

Hmm so you are saying, you do not believe the Founders were Christian at all ?

Preamble

The Constitution Party gratefully acknowledges the blessing of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ as Creator, Preserver and Ruler of the Universe and of these United States. We hereby appeal to Him for mercy, aid, comfort, guidance and the protection of His Providence as we work to restore and preserve these United States.

This great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been and are afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.

The goal of the Constitution Party is to restore American jurisprudence to its Biblical foundations and to limit the federal government to its Constitutional boundaries.

The Constitution of these United States provides that "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." The Constitution Party supports the original intent of this language. Therefore, the Constitution Party calls on all those who love liberty and value their inherent rights to join with us in the pursuit of these goals and in the restoration of these founding principles.

The U.S. Constitution established a Republic rooted in Biblical law, administered by representatives who are Constitutionally elected by the citizens. In such a Republic all Life, Liberty and Property are protected because law rules.

We affirm the principles of inherent individual rights upon which these United States of America were founded:

* That each individual is endowed by his Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are the rights to life, liberty, property and the pursuit of happiness;
* That the freedom to own, use, exchange, control, protect, and freely dispose of property is a natural, necessary and inseparable extension of the individual's unalienable rights;
* That the legitimate function of government is to secure these rights through the preservation of domestic tranquility, the maintenance of a strong national defense, and the promotion of equal justice for all;
* That history makes clear that left unchecked, it is the nature of government to usurp the liberty of its citizens and eventually become a major violator of the people's rights; and
* That, therefore, it is essential to bind government with the chains of the Constitution and carefully divide and jealously limit government powers to those assigned by the consent of the governed.

 

[Alexa]

Hmm so you are saying, you do not believe the Founders were Christian at all ?

No. I'm saying not all of them were Christian. Some were, some weren't. Your point?