Jesus, Son of David

[Starman3000m]

Hey Starman,
I had heard that a persons "Jewishness" was from the mother, but I had nothing to back it up. For all I knew it was just a rumor. Thanks for the link.

You're very welcome. It is interesting and yet not a very well known or understood concept unless one is quite familiar with the Judaic faith.

No, I did not know that the Jews await two Messiahs. How is it that they think a second Messiah (does Messiah mean Savior?) is needed if one has come? You said the first Messiah is to appears to be killed, so what does that mean and how does Jesus not fulfill this?
More later, hubby coming in.

Yep; another little known fact about the Judaic faith is that the Orthodox Jews today are waiting for the two Messiahs. I believe that this is where the prophesied appearance of anti-Christ will deceive the Jews, in their thinking that he is Moshiach ben Yosef. As you know, in the Book of Revelation, anti-Christ will be killed half-way into his 7-year rule, after having negotiated the false peace-pact between Jews and the Gentile world.

Jewish teaching states that when their Moshiach ben Yosef is killed, there will be chaos and great persecution throughout the world, then, shortly afterward Moshiach ben David appears to restore peace in the world and will exonerate the Jews once and for all and reign from Jerusalem.

This sure parallels with Biblical prophecy about the anti-Christ turning against the Jews and Christians and persecuting and killing those who do not accept the mark of the Beast. Shortly afterward is when Yeshua HaMashiach, the New Testament Jesus, appears prior to anti-Christ's total extermination of Jews and anyone else who did not accept the mark during that time period which lasts approx. 3 1/2 years.

Yeshua HaMashiach, New Testament Jesus, has already fulfilled the first appearance, albeit that Orthodox Jews did not accept Him at that time because what they wanted was a "political strong-man" to be their leader in order to vanquish their enemies. Also, in Orthodox Judaism, the qualifications for their first Moshiach does not call for being a "Divine being" just an ordinary man with the right Davidic lineage and that is how the anti-Christ will be able to come along to deceive the Orthodox Jews into accepting him.

I believe that anti-Christ will fit the bill of being the political leader who appears to be the restorer of peace and the one that Orthodox Judaism awaits right now. Additionally, the way things are going on in the world at this point in history it will be easy for anti-Christ to make his false peace-plan that the whole world, including Orthodox Jews, will gladly accept.

I know that many people in Christendom pray for the "soon return of Jesus" however, this cannot happen until this world goes through the period given over to anti-Christ and the False Prophet, as has been written in Bible Prophecy.

 

[fredcaudle]

This is a great thread and I have enjoyed the many comments and research. For those interested, First Baptist Church of St. Charles is exploring the geneology of Jesus the next two Sundays during worship hours. The geneology gives incredible weight, but how does it apply to our lives in 2007?

All all welcome to come and hear. Matthew will be explored this Sunday and Luke next week - and then tieing it all together for relevance to our lives.

There is no fee, and the offering collected during worship is for active members... need only come and hear and then use the information.

For directions, times of worship, or questions about our doctrine, please visit: home - First Baptist Church of St. Charles

 

[Starman3000m]

This is a great thread and I have enjoyed the many comments and research. For those interested, First Baptist Church of St. Charles is exploring the geneology of Jesus the next two Sundays during worship hours. The geneology gives incredible weight, but how does it apply to our lives in 2007?

All all welcome to come and hear. Matthew will be explored this Sunday and Luke next week - and then tieing it all together for relevance to our lives.

There is no fee, and the offering collected during worship is for active members... need only come and hear and then use the information.

For directions, times of worship, or questions about our doctrine, please visit: home - First Baptist Church of St. Charles

Hi Fred,

Wish I could accept your invitation and attend - the teaching should really open up greater Biblical insight for those who are able to be there and quite applicable for this present season.

As far as how Jesus' genealogy applies to our lives in 2007: This is a two-fold perception:
1. As seen by those who have accepted Him by faith as Saviour and who have a Biblical understanding and belief in Biblical Prophecy.

Followers of the New Testament Jesus believe His warnings about the end-times and how things will get worse in the world before they get better. Not to worry, though, as followers of Jesus are filled with the Comfort and Peace through the indwelling Holy Spirit in that no matter what happens, God is still in control and things must unfold as He has already ordained.

2. As seen by the secular world and non-Christian faiths who do not accept Yeshua HaMashiach but believe he was only a prophet or just a man.

This group of mankind are the ones that the Bible says will be calling for "peace and safety" - as they are right now! This group denies that Jesus is the Divine Son of God and, therefore, cannot relate to Him but they will be able to relate to a charismatic human who comes along with the right "peace-plan" that unites this world into a sort of inter-faith agreement so as to bring a sense of tolerance for all people throughout the world.

Herein is the awareness of where we are at this point in history in the year 2007 and how people relate or don't relate to Yeshua HaMashiach.

God's Peace must first dwell in the heart of all mankind before this world can truly experience True Peace; that can't happen until the real Messiah, Yeshua (New Testament Jesus) appears as He prophesied.

 

[camily]

This is a great thread and I have enjoyed the many comments and research. For those interested, First Baptist Church of St. Charles is exploring the geneology of Jesus the next two Sundays during worship hours. The geneology gives incredible weight, but how does it apply to our lives in 2007?

All all welcome to come and hear. Matthew will be explored this Sunday and Luke next week - and then tieing it all together for relevance to our lives.

There is no fee, and the offering collected during worship is for active members... need only come and hear and then use the information.

For directions, times of worship, or questions about our doctrine, please visit: home - First Baptist Church of St. Charles

I was just about to send this thread to you since this was the topic in church! I knew it was Matthew though! See, I was listening, , not just laughing.

 

[Dymphna]

anti-Christ will be killed half-way into his 7-year rule,

How can someone be killed half-way through his rule? Wouldn't that then be the end of his rule? :shrug:

I took a class once where they were talking about numbers in the bible...According to the teacher, the number 7 and the word/symbol in ancient Hebrew for infinite or indeterminate (distance or time) is the same. The number 4 is it's opposite, meaning a set distance or period of time that has a conceivable end.... so for example, 40 days and 40 nights, could mean LITERALLY that period of time or it could mean "a really long time (since it was 40, instead of 4) that eventually ended"

 

[Starman3000m]

How can someone be killed half-way through his rule? Wouldn't that then be the end of his rule? :shrug:

I took a class once where they were talking about numbers in the bible...According to the teacher, the number 7 and the word/symbol in ancient Hebrew for infinite or indeterminate (distance or time) is the same. The number 4 is it's opposite, meaning a set distance or period of time that has a conceivable end.... so for example, 40 days and 40 nights, could mean LITERALLY that period of time or it could mean "a really long time (since it was 40, instead of 4) that eventually ended"

Good question and, yes, there is an answer!
According to Bible Prophecy, anti-Christ recovers from the deadly wound. This is the point when Satan enters the body of anti-Christ so as in this "supernatural way" the anti-Christ rule from that point is actually Satan in control of the world. It is believed that all born-again Believers in Yeshua who are indwelt with the Holy Spirit will not be here on earth during that time and will be spared from being persecuted.

However, there will be a multitude of people who had not accepted Yeshua as Lord who will then realize that He in fact was the Saviour of mankind and then will accept Him, albeit at the peril of being persecuted and/or killed by the anti-Christ system that demands all to accept the mark of the Beast and worship the image of the Beast.

This is explained in the Book of Revelation and this is how anti-Christ will be able to "recover" after being killed.

Please note that Satan entered Judas at the Last Supper, as mentioned in the New Testament, that is how it will be for anti-Christ to change from being the bringer of false peace to the persecutor of Jews and all people who do not comply with the One World Government/One World Religion under the direction of anti-Christ.

 

[tommyjones]

Good question and, yes, there is an answer!
According to Bible Prophecy, anti-Christ recovers from the deadly wound. This is the point when Satan enters the body of anti-Christ so as in this "supernatural way" the anti-Christ rule from that point is actually Satan in control of the world. It is believed that all born-again Believers in Yeshua who are indwelt with the Holy Spirit will not be here on earth during that time and will be spared from being persecuted.

However, there will be a multitude of people who had not accepted Yeshua as Lord who will then realize that He in fact was the Saviour of mankind and then will accept Him, albeit at the peril of being persecuted and/or killed by the anti-Christ system that demands all to accept the mark of the Beast and worship the image of the Beast.

This is explained in the Book of Revelation and this is how anti-Christ will be able to "recover" after being killed.

Please note that Satan entered Judas at the Last Supper, as mentioned in the New Testament, that is how it will be for anti-Christ to change from being the bringer of false peace to the persecutor of Jews and all people who do not comply with the One World Government/One World Religion under the direction of anti-Christ.

that shiat cracks me up EVERYTIME i hear it......

 

[Starman3000m]

that shiat cracks me up EVERYTIME i hear it......

lol -

Even if you do not believe the Biblical prophecy, tommy, you do have to admit that the "secular" world is headed toward the unification of a global government, i.e. One World Order - or as Bush Sr., Jr. and other presidents have called it, " A New World Order." This is happening right under your nose as you laugh and as you remain in denial of what's happening with this crazy world. Won't be long before you'll be asked then demanded to have a chip implant installed in your body.

Laugh, but it's on its way. Sorry I cannot laugh with you as you have been warned and could not understand.

 

[tommyjones]

lol -

Even if you do not believe the Biblical prophecy, tommy, you do have to admit that the "secular" world is headed toward the unification of a global government, i.e. One World Order - or as Bush Sr., Jr. and other presidents have called it, " A New World Order." This is happening right under your nose as you laugh and as you remain in denial of what's happening with this crazy world. Won't be long before you'll be asked then demanded to have a chip implant installed in your body.

Laugh, but it's on its way. Sorry I cannot laugh with you as you have been warned and could not understand.

still laughing here......

I dont see this one world or new world order you are talking about.

besides the writers of the bible were talking about the romans taking over the world, not the UN, and there are lots of countries that arn't part of the global economy/other stuff

 

[Starman3000m]

still laughing here......

I dont see this one world or new world order you are talking about.

besides the writers of the bible were talking about the romans taking over the world, not the UN, and there are lots of countries that arn't part of the global economy/other stuff

google New World Order. You will find lots of info and statements from our politicians promoting the global economy and eventual merging with all countries to come under the United Nations agenda.

Also, google United Nations Charter, developed in 1947 - it takes time to get everyone in line to agree but that will occur.

The Jews in Jesus' time were indeed opposed by the Roman government which sought world dominance - but Jesus' prophecy speaks of the end times of the world with warnings that could only happen in the era that we live in today - and not 2000 years ago.

 

[tommyjones]

google New World Order. You will find lots of info and statements from our politicians promoting the global economy and eventual merging with all countries to come under the United Nations agenda.

Also, google United Nations Charter, developed in 1947 - it takes time to get everyone in line to agree but that will occur.

The Jews in Jesus' time were indeed opposed by the Roman government which sought world dominance - but Jesus' prophecy speaks of the end times of the world with warnings that could only happen in the era that we live in today - and not 2000 years ago.

but back then they were saying that it could only happen back then, not in a thousand or two thousand years......


and i know all about the new world order, just dont believe its happening or that it is a threat.

 

[Starman3000m]

but back then they were saying that it could only happen back then, not in a thousand or two thousand years......


and i know all about the new world order, just dont believe its happening or that it is a threat.

Yes, back then they were trying to get ahead of God's Plan and tried to interpret events for their time. However, unlike today, they did not have the weapons of mass destruction that could wipe out the world's population as we have today and as mentioned in Biblical Prophecy.

One major prophecy fulfilled that could have only happened in our time was the formation of the Jewish nation of Israel - in 1948. That is one of the prophetic signs that must occur in order for the Jewish Moshiach to appear.
Up until 1948, the Jews had been dispersed throughout the world, as prophesied, then have been returning to their homeland, as prophesied. Right now, Orthodox Jews have plans to reconstruct the Third Temple of God, another event that needs to occur - but can only happen under the false-peace pact enacted by the anti-Christ reign - as prophesied.

 

[Plan B]

Christ spoke of the Kingdom of God; the Romans nor the new world order effect it.
Time has no bearing. Only your soul, and what you do while alive here after salvation, matter.
Geneology matters in fulfilling prophesy, but Christ fulfilled it Himself.
Many beleivers do not consider the current state of Israel to be the return of His kingdom.

 

[fredcaudle]

Hi Fred,

Wish I could accept your invitation and attend - the teaching should really open up greater Biblical insight for those who are able to be there and quite applicable for this present season.

As far as how Jesus' genealogy applies to our lives in 2007: This is a two-fold perception:
1. As seen by those who have accepted Him by faith as Saviour and who have a Biblical understanding and belief in Biblical Prophecy.

Followers of the New Testament Jesus believe His warnings about the end-times and how things will get worse in the world before they get better. Not to worry, though, as followers of Jesus are filled with the Comfort and Peace through the indwelling Holy Spirit in that no matter what happens, God is still in control and things must unfold as He has already ordained.

2. As seen by the secular world and non-Christian faiths who do not accept Yeshua HaMashiach but believe he was only a prophet or just a man.

This group of mankind are the ones that the Bible says will be calling for "peace and safety" - as they are right now! This group denies that Jesus is the Divine Son of God and, therefore, cannot relate to Him but they will be able to relate to a charismatic human who comes along with the right "peace-plan" that unites this world into a sort of inter-faith agreement so as to bring a sense of tolerance for all people throughout the world.

Herein is the awareness of where we are at this point in history in the year 2007 and how people relate or don't relate to Yeshua HaMashiach.

God's Peace must first dwell in the heart of all mankind before this world can truly experience True Peace; that can't happen until the real Messiah, Yeshua (New Testament Jesus) appears as He prophesied.

Thanks Starman... Appreciate your comments and insights given in the threads. Maranatha!

 

[Starman3000m]

Christ spoke of the Kingdom of God; the Romans nor the new world order effect it.
Time has no bearing. Only your soul, and what you do while alive here after salvation, matter.
Geneology matters in fulfilling prophesy, but Christ fulfilled it Himself.
Many beleivers do not consider the current state of Israel to be the return of His kingdom.

Many believers do in -fact have differing opinions, however, the Orthodox Jews certainly require the Third Temple to be constructed and this would be the Temple that is defiled by anti-Christ (the abomination of desolation) as prophesied in the Bible.

Jesus stated to His followers that His Kingdom was not of this world and that the Kingdom of God was not one that could be observed but that is within you- speaking of the Holy Spirit that is sent to indwell believers at Pentecost and all present-day believers.

It is the Orthodox Jewish nation that God will still deal with and it is Jewish - not "Christian" fulfillment that needs to come to pass in the area of the Third Temple of God being constructed. By the way, it appears the anti-Christ will be successful in deceiving the Jews in order for them to accept him as their Moshiach - as prophesied.

google Temple Mount Faithful for more info on waht is happening among Jews in Israel who are making preparations for Temple worship/sacrifices and the return of their first Moshiach.

 

[Starman3000m]

Thanks Starman... Appreciate your comments and insights given in the threads. Maranatha!

You're very welcome Fred.
Things are picking up pace as we speak and prophetic events are unfolding before our very eyes. Praise God that through faith in Yeshua HaMashiach we are called the Children of God and have received His Promise of Salvation that is freely offered to all mankind.

God Did For Mankind What Abraham Was Going To Do For God.

 

[2ndAmendment]

still laughing here......

I dont see this one world or new world order you are talking about.

besides the writers of the bible were talking about the romans taking over the world, not the UN, and there are lots of countries that arn't part of the global economy/other stuff

The New Testament writers were not writing of the Roman Empire since the Roman Empire had already conquered the Middle East.

 

[2ndAmendment]

but back then they were saying that it could only happen back then, not in a thousand or two thousand years......

Oh? What is your source? They were speaking of a time to come and as Jesus had told them:

Matthew 24:36-39

36"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.

37"For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.

38"For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,

39and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

and i know all about the new world order, just dont believe its happening or that it is a threat.

Head in sand syndrome just like Neville Chamberlain believed Hitler could be appeased into not being a threat to England.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Christ spoke of the Kingdom of God; the Romans nor the new world order effect it.
Time has no bearing. Only your soul, and what you do while alive here after salvation, matter.
Geneology matters in fulfilling prophesy, but Christ fulfilled it Himself.
Many beleivers do not consider the current state of Israel to be the return of His kingdom.

It isn't. It is the fullfillment of this:

Isaiah 66:6-9

6"A voice of uproar from the city, a voice from the temple,
The voice of the LORD who is rendering recompense to His enemies.
7"Before she travailed, she brought forth;
Before her pain came, she gave birth to a boy.
8"Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things?
Can a land be born in one day?
Can a nation be brought forth all at once?
As soon as Zion travailed, she also brought forth her sons.
9"Shall I bring to the point of birth and not give delivery?" says the LORD.
"Or shall I who gives delivery shut the womb?" says your God.