LA SWAT Accepts First Woman Into Training Program.

[AK-74me]

http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_8741020

Female officer accepted into LA's SWAT training program
The Associated Press
Article Launched: 03/29/2008 09:31:25 AM PDT


LOS ANGELES—A female police officer has been accepted into the Police Department's SWAT training program that could make her the first woman to join the elite group.
Jennifer Grasso, 36, is one of 13 officers selected for spots in the department's 12-week training school, which is scheduled to begin on Monday, according to an internal department e-mail obtained by the Los Angeles Times.

A confidential report made public earlier this month said a panel of law enforcement experts sought changes in SWAT testing to make the process more open to women.

Police Chief William Bratton has not discussed the details of the new selection criteria until the department's civilian oversight commission is briefed on them.

No problem with a woman on the team, but to change the standards just isn't good for a job like this.

 

[itsbob]

http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_8741020





No problem with a woman on the team, but to change the standards just isn't good for a job like this.

Don't know anything about her, but you have to wonder if she's able to throw a 200 lb man on her shoulders and get her wounded comrade out of the line of fire.

 

[Ken King]

They might not be changing the standards just because of her. I found the following in an article from the LA Times.

Grasso won the hard-earned praise of current SWAT officers in large part because of her strong performance during tryouts last year. She was nearing acceptance to SWAT school when she badly injured her knee during one of the final tests on a Marine obstacle course at Camp Pendleton. If she had not proved her mettle then, several SWAT officers said, they would be more skeptical of Grasso's abilities.

It was Grasso's injury and similar ones suffered by her male counterparts that led department officials, in part, to question whether the punishing Marine courses were excessively arduous for vetting SWAT prospects. A panel of outside experts convened by Bratton to examine SWAT practices also pushed the department to change, concluding that the old tests were "over-emphasizing physical prowess and tactical acumen."

 

[AK-74me]

They might not be changing the standards just because of her. I found the following in an article from the LA Times.

May be.

check out this article.

Jack Dunphy on LAPD Standards on National Review Online

 

[Ken King]

May be.

check out this article.

Jack Dunphy on LAPD Standards on National Review Online

There seem to be more articles singing praise to Officer Grasso and saying she is deserving. The change is in the initial vetting process that has resulted in injuries that appear to impact either sex. Dunphy sees it as a planned act to force women onto the team and seems openly biased. The candidates will still have to complete the 12 week course and hope to obtain one of the six open slots. Nothing is saying that she is a shoe-in and of greater interest to me is that there is no mention of the other female candidate.

I say let her go for it and if she makes the grade to become a SWAT member so be it.

 

[tom88]

There seem to be more articles singing praise to Officer Grasso and saying she is deserving. The change is in the initial vetting process that has resulted in injuries that appear to impact either sex. Dunphy sees it as a planned act to force women onto the team and seems openly biased. The candidates will still have to complete the 12 week course and hope to obtain one of the six open slots. Nothing is saying that she is a shoe-in and of greater interest to me is that there is no mention of the other female candidate.

I say let her go for it and if she makes the grade to become a SWAT member so be it.

Your response to this seems to me to lack common sense. It seems the practice has been in place for a number of years to have members of this team first complete this course. How many male officers have not been able to attend the training after failing this course? Is it now fair to allow this female to do so, by lowering the standards? If so, what will this do to the morale of the rest of the officers, to know that she was given "special" considerations, and standards were changed in order for her to get on the team.

What theses officers do is not a test. This shouldn't be a place where we make social experiements and hope all is o.k.

There was a minimum standard in place, with a unit who has a pretty high success rate. The people who DO the job are opposed to these changes. Why not abide by their decision. There is nothing that says a woman who passes the test all the other current members had to pass can't be a member of the SWAT team.

The rest of the stuff, the report Braxton speaks of sounds like spin to me. And your comment that "there seem to be more articles singing praise to Officer Grasso and saying she is deserving" seems short sighted. NONE of the experts on LAPD SWAT seem to be singing her praises?

 

[AK-74me]

Your response to this seems to me to lack common sense. It seems the practice has been in place for a number of years to have members of this team first complete this course. How many male officers have not been able to attend the training after failing this course? Is it now fair to allow this female to do so, by lowering the standards? If so, what will this do to the morale of the rest of the officers, to know that she was given "special" considerations, and standards were changed in order for her to get on the team.

What theses officers do is not a test. This shouldn't be a place where we make social experiements and hope all is o.k.

There was a minimum standard in place, with a unit who has a pretty high success rate. The people who DO the job are opposed to these changes. Why not abide by their decision. There is nothing that says a woman who passes the test all the other current members had to pass can't be a member of the SWAT team.

The rest of the stuff, the report Braxton speaks of sounds like spin to me. And your comment that "there seem to be more articles singing praise to Officer Grasso and saying she is deserving" seems short sighted. NONE of the experts on LAPD SWAT seem to be singing her praises?

Anything that William Bratton is for I am pretty much against. He is not a true LEO, he is just an overpaid politician.......... a liberal one at that.

 

[Ken King]

Your response to this seems to me to lack common sense. It seems the practice has been in place for a number of years to have members of this team first complete this course. How many male officers have not been able to attend the training after failing this course? Is it now fair to allow this female to do so, by lowering the standards? If so, what will this do to the morale of the rest of the officers, to know that she was given "special" considerations, and standards were changed in order for her to get on the team.

What theses officers do is not a test. This shouldn't be a place where we make social experiements and hope all is o.k.

There was a minimum standard in place, with a unit who has a pretty high success rate. The people who DO the job are opposed to these changes. Why not abide by their decision. There is nothing that says a woman who passes the test all the other current members had to pass can't be a member of the SWAT team.

The rest of the stuff, the report Braxton speaks of sounds like spin to me. And your comment that "there seem to be more articles singing praise to Officer Grasso and saying she is deserving" seems short sighted. NONE of the experts on LAPD SWAT seem to be singing her praises?

Why doesn't it make sense? The process has resulted in injuries and now the process is being modified to possibly eliminate those injuries. What about that doesn't make sense?

Can one only be SWAT if they are over 6 foot tall and can lug around a 250 pound fallen officer? How many women are qualified as firefighters, EMTs, regular police officers, military members that might have to do the same?

I don't know what aspect of the qualification that this officer was injured trying to complete, do you? And I don't think it is a social experiment to allow women to be SWAT members. You take the best of the best regardless of the gender. Hell, they might discover that they have a hell of a sniper within the female candidates or just as capable tactical action officers. Why shouldn't they be given the chance and if the testing is injuring both male and female candidates why shouldn't the process be reviewed or changed?

 

[RadioPatrol]

http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_8741020


No problem with a woman on the team, but to change the standards just isn't good for a job like this.

Military has been doing that for yrs via congressional mandate to get more women in the Armed forces .... why else would the PT Requirements for women be less stringent

 

[RadioPatrol]

Nothing is saying that she is a shoe-in and of greater interest to me is that there is no mention of the other female candidate.

yeah and if shes does not get a slot ....



.... and feminist come running out of the wood work like roaches with the ACLU in a close second

screaming how the system is stacked againist women .....

 

[Ken King]

yeah and if shes does not get a slot ....



.... and feminist come running out of the wood work like roaches with the ACLU in a close second

screaming how the system is stacked againist women .....

You are aware that there already are women on various Federal, state and local SWAT units. Have been since the 1980s. It seems LA is one of the last hold outs and they have already been sued and loss the case for what was deemed as continuously changing the standards depending on the applicants.

 

[ImnoMensa]

Me??? I am surprised it hasnt happened before this.

 

[RadioPatrol]

You are aware that there already are women on various Federal, state and local SWAT units. Have been since the 1980s. It seems LA is one of the last hold outs and they have already been sued and loss the case for what was deemed as continuously changing the standards depending on the applicants.

Great ..... as long as no one lowered the standards so women could get in ..... Not A Problem ..... I am all for anyone having any job they are qualified for .... except for Women in Combat .... without the standards being lowered ....

 

[AK-74me]

Great ..... as long as no one lowered the standards so women could get in ..... Not A Problem ..... I am all for anyone having any job they are qualified for .... except for Women in Combat .... without the standards being lowered ....

That is exactly my feeling, I am all for it as long as the standards stay the same. The enemy/bad guy isn't going to be easier on you just because there is a woman in their sights.

 

[Larry Gude]

200...

Don't know anything about her, but you have to wonder if she's able to throw a 200 lb man on her shoulders and get her wounded comrade out of the line of fire.

...pounds? Are you suggesting she strip him of all his gear first?

 

[itsbob]

Can one only be SWAT if they are over 6 foot tall and can lug around a 250 pound fallen officer? How many women are qualified as firefighters, EMTs, regular police officers, military members that might have to do the same?

I

Name one (to include the military) that hasn't lowered their standards and/or have seperate standards for the females..

They don't have to carry as much, or do as much or run as fast as their male counterparts in any of the above jobs (I don't know if volunteer fireman have to ANY of the above anyways).

AND it's just not females. It seems once you make any of the above teams you no longer have to worry about passing any kind of physical test to prove your ability. I'd like to see any of the 10 year, 300 pound State Police veterans pass the physical agility test they require the cadets to pass.

Yeah, females can be EMT's, or firemen.. but I also believe they aren't going to pull my 230 pound ass out of a fire either without help, or sending in a male counterpart that can, THAT being said, 50% of the males probably can't either.

SO men have been getting hurt on this obstacle course for years, and it's never been an issue, a female trying out gets hurt and all of a sudden it's not fair!! Yep, no bias there.

 

[LordStanley]

Well they did it in the movies. So you know it has to be done in real life

 

[Ken King]

Name one (to include the military) that hasn't lowered their standards and/or have seperate standards for the females..

They don't have to carry as much, or do as much or run as fast as their male counterparts in any of the above jobs (I don't know if volunteer fireman have to ANY of the above anyways).

AND it's just not females. It seems once you make any of the above teams you no longer have to worry about passing any kind of physical test to prove your ability. I'd like to see any of the 10 year, 300 pound State Police veterans pass the physical agility test they require the cadets to pass.

Yeah, females can be EMT's, or firemen.. but I also believe they aren't going to pull my 230 pound ass out of a fire either without help, or sending in a male counterpart that can, THAT being said, 50% of the males probably can't either.

SO men have been getting hurt on this obstacle course for years, and it's never been an issue, a female trying out gets hurt and all of a sudden it's not fair!! Yep, no bias there.

Did the injured officer say it wasn't fair, don't think so, from what I have read it was those that manage the force that said it was causing injury and needed changing.

As to whether standards have been lowered you do the checking to see, you made the claim now it is up to you to back it up. As far as I know the standards havven't been changed just for women.

I'll even give you a few places to look. You can start by by looking at the certification of Mary Smith of the San Bernadino County Sheriff's Department that passed the FBI course in 1984. Or maybe Julie Erickson of the Illinois State Police that made the TRT in 1988 or Janice Easterling of the Dallas Police Department also became SWAT in 1988. You might want to check out Denice Faxton of the Tippecanoe Sheriffs Department in north central Indiana. Maybe they lowered the standards for Cynthia Howard of the Annapolis, MD, Police Department, you should check her out too. I'm sure they had to lower the standards for Special Agent Samantha Mikeska with the FBI's El Paso Bureau, you should investigate how she was able to get through that course.

There are more out there, you can find them with a little effort and an expert such as yourself should be able to determine if the standards were lowered or not.

 

[itsbob]

Did the injured officer say it wasn't fair, don't think so, from what I have read it was those that manage the force that said it was causing injury and needed changing.

As to whether standards have been lowered you do the checking to see, you made the claim now it is up to you to back it up. As far as I know the standards havven't been changed just for women.

I'll even give you a few places to look. You can start by by looking at the certification of Mary Smith of the San Bernadino County Sheriff's Department that passed the FBI course in 1984. Or maybe Julie Erickson of the Illinois State Police that made the TRT in 1988 or Janice Easterling of the Dallas Police Department also became SWAT in 1988. You might want to check out Denice Faxton of the Tippecanoe Sheriffs Department in north central Indiana. Maybe they lowered the standards for Cynthia Howard of the Annapolis, MD, Police Department, you should check her out too. I'm sure they had to lower the standards for Special Agent Samantha Mikeska with the FBI's El Paso Bureau, you should investigate how she was able to get through that course.

There are more out there, you can find them with a little effort and an expert such as yourself should be able to determine if the standards were lowered or not.

Federal Bureau of Investigation

That was easy.. NEXT!

Seperate and lower standards for women to enter the FBI..

 

[Ken King]

Federal Bureau of Investigation

That was easy.. NEXT!

Seperate and lower standards for women to enter the FBI..

That isn't there SWAT team it's just entering the FBI, back to the books, Boy.