Let's talk about lying and liars

M

MGKrebs

endangered species
So now that I am back to normal:

I hate to be the one to bring up president Clinton, BUT:

If the sex wasn't the thing, if it was the lying, then I would like to know;

What are we to think of Bush hiring the following guys;

Elliott Abrams
John Poindexter
Otto Reich

These guys are all proven (and some convicted) liars. Bush has hired them anyway.
 
B

bknarw

Attire Monitor
Originally posted by MGKrebs
So now that I am back to normal:

I hate to be the one to bring up president Clinton, BUT:

If the sex wasn't the thing, if it was the lying, then I would like to know;

What are we to think of Bush hiring the following guys;

Elliott Abrams
John Poindexter
Otto Reich

These guys are all proven (and some convicted) liars. Bush has hired them anyway.
Click to expand...

Who doesn't lie? Who in this life, at some point, doesn't tell a lie or two?

Let he who is without sin...

Oh, and when will the shrill Libo-rhetoric ever stop?
 
SmallTown

SmallTown

Football season!
Re: Re: Let's talk about lying and liars

Originally posted by bknarw
Who doesn't lie? Who in this life, at some point, doesn't tell a lie or two?

Let he who is without sin...

Oh, and when will the shrill Libo-rhetoric ever stop?
Click to expand...

I don't lie.. I stretch the truth some, but never lie :biggrin:
 
K

Kain99

Guest
I don't know about you guys but I have never ever told a lie! Everything i have ever posted is 100% true! :biggrin:

True Story (Really)
 
vraiblonde

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
It's not the sex and I can get past the lies. What I can't get past is the way he acted about them and the way the Democrats overlooked them. I can't get past the absolute abuse of power with the Utah land-grab, the ruin of Billy Dale, China-gate, etc, etc, etc. It was just one thing after another.

Hell, Clinton wasn't even in office before the scandals started. Then, the minute he's elected, here comes Paula Jones. But I could get past the serial philanderer bit, even though I think that sort of thing shows poor character. It was the more serious things that I was concerned about.

I have often said that you're going to be hard-pressed to find anyone who's been in politics for any length of time who hasn't done some shaky things. It seems to go with the territory, regardless of your party affiliation.

But Clinton went above and beyond the call of unethical behavior. Then the Democrats wouldn't even reign him in - they were smooching a$$ no matter WHAT that guy did. Lying for him, making excuses for him - it was an embarrassing time in our American history. At least with Nixon, his own party made him resign. If the Democrats had any integrity, they would have asked Clinton to do the same.

You, Maynard (as much as I like you), are a wonderful representative for the Democratic party. Not as good as DemsforMD but still pretty good. You overlook the absolute corruption of the Clinton years and get real excited about Bush appointing Poindexter. Bet you got real excited about that 25 year old DWI too, didn't you? And I'll bet you thought the media made all that Juanita Broadderick stuff up, didn't you?

So ya'll got what you deserved by losing your butts this last election.
 
M

MGKrebs

endangered species
We can talk all day

(and all night) about rumors, innuendos, and accusations. I'm pretty sure i can match you one for one on Bush scandals, and he's only been in office two years. But that's not the point. As you sorta said, if the repubs are so much better, shouldn't they be calling for some kind of punishment here? These guys are convicted criminals ( 2 outta 3 anyway). And Bush hired them.

I'm not asking or expecting for Bush to not finish his term, but if this kind of stuff was so bad before, it should still be bad now. You can't say it's OK because WJC did it. Can you?
 
vraiblonde

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Elliott Abrams
John Poindexter
Otto Reich

These guys are all proven (and some convicted) liars. Bush has hired them anyway.
Click to expand...

We have a former President who is a proven and convicted liar. We kept him on anyway. It set the standard and now the American public isn't excited about political liars anymore. When Nixon lied, it was a different climate and the public was outraged. Now we just go *yawn* - imagine that, lies in politics! Especially since the Democrats spent 8 years telling everyone, "Lies - so what? EVERYONE lies."

I'm not going to try to compare Bush and Clinton - frankly, there's no comparison. But I do have to admit that sometimes I wonder what Bush is thinking in some of his choices. The Kissinger thing made me raise my eyebrows, then along came Poindexter. It seems to me that he should have a big enough pool to choose from that he wouldn't have to get ANYONE who was tainted by scandal.

Maybe he lost a poker game with dear old Dad and this was the payoff. Dunno.
 
Ken King

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
Re: We can talk all day

Originally posted by MGKrebs
These guys are convicted criminals ( 2 outta 3 anyway). And Bush hired them.
Click to expand...
As Abrams received a pardon and Poindexter's conviction was overturned on appeal neither are convicted criminals.
 
M

MGKrebs

endangered species
A pardon doesn't mean the person didn't do the deed. It just means they can't be punished for it. And Poindexter's being overturned (if I remember correctly) was because it was determined that he had immunity for his testimony in which he admitted to the lying. Again, doesn't negate the fact that he had lied.

But if this doesn't bother you, then so be it. So that should take the "lying" references to Our Former President off the table, right?

That leaves:
rapist- never convicted, so by your argument shouldn't be an issue.
murderer- same as above.

What else am I missing?
 
H

Heretic

Guest
Every politician is a liar, its the breaking the law that bothered me. The bar association doesn't disbar someone for no reason.
 
Ken King

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
All I was saying is that with the pardon and overturned decision it is improper to call them convicted criminals.

What do you think of your boy Gore calling it quits?
 
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M

MGKrebs

endangered species
Re: Gore

I'm disappointed. I like him. I was actually looking forward to the rematch.
I'm not sure yet who else I like. I've heard that the press disliked Gore because he was condescending, and if that is the case, then Kerry has no chance. Edwards is still too young. Don't know much about Dean yet, I'll have to keep my eyes on him, and Lieberman might as well be a Republican.

Frankly, I don't give the dems much chance of re-taking the White House in 04. As long as the "war" trumps all other issues in the voters minds, what can anybody do to challenge? The way it's set up now, there is no criteria for failure on that issue. We already believe that it's going to last forever, it's going to cost boatloads of money, we don't care about giving up civil liberties, and peace is not an option. We have zero expectations. Something really drastic would have to happen, and I certainly don't want to see that. Besides, if something that drastic were to happen, it would not shock me if there were no elections then.
 
vraiblonde

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Dunno, Maynard - Big Bush had extraordinary poll numbers coming off the Gulf War and HE managed to lose.

Al Gore stinks. Kerry stinks. Don't know enough about Edwards to say anything about him. Think Governors - they're always the guys who get it. Since the Dems are going retro with all this Fritz Mondale business, how about Mike Dukakis making a comeback? :lol:

Whoever it is will come out of nowhere. Watch and see.
 
Penn

Penn

Dancing Up A Storm
Originally posted by vraiblonde
It's not the sex and I can get past the lies. What I can't get past is the way he acted about them and the way the Democrats overlooked them. I can't get past the absolute abuse of power with the Utah land-grab, the ruin of Billy Dale, China-gate, etc, etc, etc. It was just one thing after another.

Clinton went above and beyond the call of unethical behavior. Then the Democrats wouldn't even reign him in - they were smooching a$$ no matter WHAT that guy did. Lying for him, making excuses for him - it was an embarrassing time in our American history. At least with Nixon, his own party made him resign. If the Democrats had any integrity, they would have asked Clinton to do the same.
Bet you got real excited about that 25 year old DWI too, didn't you? And I'll bet you thought the media made all that Juanita Broadderick stuff up, didn't you?
So ya'll got what you deserved by losing your butts this last election.
Click to expand...
:confused: I seem to recall that summer when the Monica story broke, it was about August when Willie Jeff made a public statement that he hadn't had any involvement whatsoever with said Monica. He then had a Cabinet Meeting where he further lied to the entire loyal, handpicked group, asking for their support. And they, poor saps, believed him and went out to the press and defended him. I wonder how any of us would have felt, knowing we had been blatently lied to like that?

penn
 
M

MGKrebs

endangered species
Re: Otto Reich

A good summary...for those not familiar.

Columbus Ledger-Enquirer
Sunday, June 9, 2002
BY MATTHEW SMUCKER
Special to the Ledger-Enquirer

"Long involved in the anti-Castro movement, Cuban-American Otto Reich first gained notoriety throughout Latin America and among U.S. human rights groups for his role as head of the Office of Public Diplomacy during the Reagan administration. This office launched a covert propaganda campaign against the Sandinista government, illegally designed to influence the U.S. public to embrace the administration's agenda for Central America. Later, as U.S. ambassador to Venezuela, Reich used his office to help Orlando Bosch — a convicted terrorist who helped shoot down a Cuban civilian airliner, killing 73 — get into the U.S.

"Since Reich's controversial nomination by the current administration (this was a recess appointment. mgk) to Assistant Secretary of State for Western Hemisphere Affairs, he has stayed true to his record. In his capacity, Reich advised Venezuelan businessman and coup leader Pedro Carmona during his failed attempt to seize power in mid-April. He also met with generals who planned the coup in the months preceding. "
 
Tonio

Tonio

Asperger's Poster Child
Both parties are guilty of this kind of hypocrisy. Each screams bloody murder about the sty in the other party's eye. But when it comes to the log in its own eye, each party acts like the log isn't relevant.

I'm thinking of starting a self-help group, Partisans Anonymous. I'll devise a 12-step program to help former pundits break their addiction to the double standard. My program will help the addicts realize that no political group has an exclusive franchise on morals and ethics.
 
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