Letter: Who's Hurting The Students

[glitch]

Ummmm..... Except for the Classroom decorations...... YEAH... the parents provide it! I spent about $200-300 in school supplies for this school year for 2 kids!

AND..... this is just the FIRST round!!!

You're one parent out however many there are for SMCPS' 67,000+ students. I'm sorry but you're not a representative sample. And to be honest, do you actually know kids? How long do you think they actually have the pencils you bought them? I've seen a kid go through 3 in a single class. I swear, he must have been eating them or something. So what is the teacher to do? Supply them or tell the kid tough luck? You tell them tough luck, you're shooting yourself in the foot since their performance directly impacts your evaluations.

I think the thing that people are forgetting is that teachers work with kids. How many of the people that are posting here are parents? If you are, I want you to consider, for just a moment, how crazy your kids can drive if they are working at it. Now imagine taking your two or four kids and turning them into 20-30. Now imagine having to coordinate the activities of all 20-30 of your children so that they are able to meet the same standards as all the others. Can you honestly tell yourself that working with adults is as difficult? Maybe if you work in a psych ward or jail, yeah, but for the most part adults are much easier to get along with.

I'm not saying other jobs aren't hard but there are days I come home, hear how 'hard' a friend's desk job had been for them lately, and want to stab them in the eye. I recently had a colleague leave the profession and she and I still talk quite frequently. She told me her new job is cake compared to teaching and she's making twice the money. The way she described it, and I wish I could remember exactly what she said, was that teaching would be like trying to do a desk job where you were given a computer with a mind of its own and ADD, a stapler with oppositional defiant disorder, and pens that never had ink in them no matter how many times you replaced it.

I would invite anyone here to take a stab at teaching and see how they fare. It's not all apples and smiling cherubs. It's a jungle in there. Just my two cents.

 

[glitch]

You know, we use to have a saying in the Navy, choose your rate, choose your fate.

I don't recall anyone forcing anyone into the teaching profession, if they don't like it, they can always choose another profession.

Or they can take an active role in changing how the profession is paid.

 

[terbear1225]

Some friends are teachers and I respect what they do. I think some of them could go on to do jobs that pay better if they really wanted to but I'm glad they're there. You couldn't pay me enough money to teach. And, for the record, I don't fault them for wanting more money/benefits.<b> It's natural for professionals to constantly try to better their situation.</b>

thank you. This has been and will continue to be my point. It is natural and normal for anyone to want higher pay, no matter their chosen career. It is natural and normal for anyone to not want to do work for which they dont feel they are being properly compensated or is outside of their contract.

Certainly there are SOME who do not hold up their end of the bargain, so to speak, in the education field but for the most part we are in the profession because we feel called to it and want to do the best we can for our students.

It is disheartening and hurtful to see the deep dislike and distrust that many feel. I am truly sorry that somewhere along the line some of you had the misfortune to be exposed to someone who should have left the profession far sooner than they did.

 

[Homeland]

You know, we use to have a saying in the Navy, choose your rate, choose your fate.

I don't recall anyone forcing anyone into the teaching profession, if they don't like it, they can always choose another profession.

Is that your only way to resolve things? Quit? How narrow minded are you that you wouldn't want to find another resolution? Have you ever heard of standing up for what you believe is right?

 

[Popster]

This will be the last of the first grade teacher series. My wife just returned from a hellish day at work. She is now sitting beside me putting in data to the students online files.

I would note that when I left BJ's going south at 4:15 today, there was as much if not more traffic on the southbound lanes on 235 than the northbound going towards route 4. Lots of folks not putting in overtime- and good on them! I hope they have a wonderful holiday! It's the way things should be.

Edit to add- I'm going to prepare scallops wrapped in bacon with rice pilaf and asparagus with home made hollandaise. Spiced stewed pears from the tree. She certainly deserves it!

 

[acommondisaster]

My wife, a teacher in SMCPS, leaves the house every morning to get to her school in time to be first in line when security unlocks the front door at 0600. She's explained to me that if she gets there first thing, she'll have first shot at the only or best working copier to give handouts to her students. She gets home between 1630-1700 after being on her feet all day. Then, she puts her feet up and works on papers until between 2300-2330.

It is possible that in the past, when your first grade teacher worked, the earliest grade lessons might not have changed so much from year to year. Teaching has changed. There is a lot of time wasted on mandated testing to see what kids don't know - when the time could be used to educate. Every child is a unique snowflake today. There are many IEPs and violent children who were not in schools long ago. When I was in school, these kids were in state institutions. Some speak no english. Here's an extreme example: I had the same nun teaching kindergarten in 1959 that my grandfather had in 1901. I doubt her lessons changed very much. We were ruled by fear and physical punishment - something that is not done today.

Many disciplines are constantly evolving thanks to new discoveries. As a scientist in her earlier career, my wife understands the value of keeping up with the most current advances in physics, astronomy, biology, biochemistry, etc. She incorporates this new material into her lesson plans. She is always looking for new material to improve lessons. To a perfectionist, it is never "good enough". Her lessons are completely different this year than a few years ago for these reasons and also because teachers are forced to adhere to the latest fads such as common core - just the latest fad peddled by the education business. She knows that her work to include the most meaningful latest knowledge benefits her students because the most successful ones return after med school to thank her.

And the rub is that you and your grandfather were probably better educated than children today, could write complete sentences, could write (and read) cursive and graduated as productive members of society.

We really need to privatize schools and do away with Department of Education. They're dumbing down Americans.

 

[intertidal]

And the rub is that you and your grandfather were probably better educated than children today, could write complete sentences, could write (and read) cursive and graduated as productive members of society.

We really need to privatize schools and do away with Department of Education. They're dumbing down Americans.

Unfortunately, there is no way to test that guess. In those days 50 years ago, we were highly segregated by many ways including ability. It was easy to teach only those you accepted and with an iron fist. Today's complete inclusiveness is the polar opposite situation. There are "children" in the schools with long criminal records. Some have such violent histories that their criminal records are sealed and the teacher has no idea how dangerous they are. It is impossible to compare results when the populations are so different.

One thing I am sure of is that teachers today are far better then they were when I was in school - even though I was always in the highest "track" and got the best teachers. My own kids received excellent educations from public school teachers in Calvert County. They were very well prepared for college and were so driven that we never once had to ask them to "buckle down" - in fact, quite the opposite, I frequently told them to have fun. My son started his own innovative business and was profiled by a national publication at 22 beating his dad who did not receive such attention to his accomplishments until he was 58. My daughter finished first in her engineering class in college, tutored in physics, and is now in grad school. Her honors invocation devoted an entire page to her accomplishments when she received her Engineering BS at age 21. She never received less than an A.

Both kids took classes at far younger ages in public school than their parents did in parochial schools - in some cases by several years (algebra, geometry, trig, calculus, etc).

My point is that there are dedicated teachers who instill a joy of learning in those willing to listen, do the work and behave. Don't blame teachers for the shift to "inclusion". Those decisions were made by politicians way above the pay grade of teachers to save money. There are plenty of problems and some are indeed the fault of the Dept. of Education - especially the ridiculous level of testing which takes time away from actual educating.

 

[mamatutu]

Really great discussion on this thread. This may be a little off topic, but after hearing on the news tonight how many "unaccompanied" illegal children are entering the school systems will make the job of a teacher, and the enthusiasm to learn of our own children that much harder. Anne Arundel County received a huge amount of these border kids. Some of the teens only have a 3rd grade ed and don't speak English. This is a travesty. The workload on the teachers will be greater, and the time spent mentoring/teaching American children will suffer. A truly horrible situation. Agenda and all, y'all.

 

[intertidal]

This will be the last of the first grade teacher series. My wife just returned from a hellish day at work. She is now sitting beside me putting in data to the students online files.

I would note that when I left BJ's going south at 4:15 today, there was as much if not more traffic on the southbound lanes on 235 than the northbound going towards route 4. Lots of folks not putting in overtime- and good on them! I hope they have a wonderful holiday! It's the way things should be.

Edit to add- I'm going to prepare scallops wrapped in bacon with rice pilaf and asparagus with home made hollandaise. Spiced stewed pears from the tree. She certainly deserves it!

I hope she managed to stay awake long enough to enjoy that great meal. Mine came home to my re-heating of leftovers and, exhausted from a long week, crashed shortly thereafter. I enjoyed the first grade teacher series - thanks for posting it. Its good to know that we are not alone in these weird times when uninformed opinions seem to be derived from political talking points, rather than reality, and then widely posted as though such a method of forming conclusions has any merit.

 

[intertidal]

Really great discussion on this thread. This may be a little off topic, but after hearing on the news tonight how many "unaccompanied" illegal children are entering the school systems will make the job of a teacher, and the enthusiasm to learn of our own children that much harder. Anne Arundel County received a huge amount of these border kids. Some of the teens only have a 3rd grade ed and don't speak English. This is a travesty. The workload on the teachers will be greater, and the time spent mentoring/teaching American children will suffer. A truly horrible situation. Agenda and all, y'all.

I bet every teacher in the state has students who speak no english. There is some nice technology available to assist, but the administrative bureacracy makes it as difficult as possible to actually use in the schools.

And you are correct (and certainly not off-topic!) - these kids are in school very shortly after entering the country. My wife says they are nice, polite kids and she would love to do more for them but its hard with the high paid administrative staff putting up so many roadblocks to get anything accomplished.

 

[MarieB]

This will be the last of the first grade teacher series. My wife just returned from a hellish day at work. She is now sitting beside me putting in data to the students online files.

I would note that when I left BJ's going south at 4:15 today, there was as much if not more traffic on the southbound lanes on 235 than the northbound going towards route 4. Lots of folks not putting in overtime- and good on them! I hope they have a wonderful holiday! It's the way things should be.

Edit to add- I'm going to prepare scallops wrapped in bacon with rice pilaf and asparagus with home made hollandaise. Spiced stewed pears from the tree. She certainly deserves it!

From what I understand, there was a bad accident on rt 4 around that time.

 

[mamatutu]

Edit to add- I'm going to prepare scallops wrapped in bacon with rice pilaf and asparagus with home made hollandaise. Spiced stewed pears from the tree. She certainly deserves it!

That sounds delicious! She is a lucky lady! Expect to see you on Food Network soon!

 

[Popster]

I hope she managed to stay awake long enough to enjoy that great meal. Mine came home to my re-heating of leftovers and, exhausted from a long week, crashed shortly thereafter. I enjoyed the first grade teacher series - thanks for posting it. Its good to know that we are not alone in these weird times when uninformed opinions seem to be derived from political talking points, rather than reality, and then widely posted as though such a method of forming conclusions has any merit.

Yep, I'm with you. Just think, 35 years ago DNA was not in any textbooks. Bet those lesson plans won't work anymore.lol

Unfortunately, my wife came home, had dinner, ministered to her sick pet, and then started grading mandatory first grade reading/writing pre-tests. She finished about 35 minutes ago and is now getting ready for bed. She was a bit miffed in that I forgot to buy a lottery ticket. It's a running joke with a little bit of hope thrown in the mix. She says if she wins won't even bother calling in the next day (I'm sure that's not true, at least I would make the call).

 

[Popster]

From what I understand, there was a bad accident on rt 4 around that time.

I believe that the accident was earlier and had blocked the northbound lanes. I'm saying the lanes from Rt4 south to the base were empty.

 

[BigBlue]

A starting teacher works (contractually) 190 days a year for 7.5 hours a day for $44,678. That works out to roughly $31.35 per hour. This requires a bachelors degree and a SPC (Standard Professional Certificate). With a masters degree, a teacher will only make $47,149 a year for the same hours. Here's the real shocker, with a doctorate that salary would only increase $2,500 a year. So a first year teacher, with a doctorate, would be making a whopping $49,649.

For comparison, an RN (which can require as little as an associates or as much as a bachelors) averages $76,330 a year. A nurse with a masters degree averages from $62,249 to $90,000.

Compared to equally educated peers in other fields, teachers aren't doing quite as well as it may seem. Add on the fact that the state takes an obligatory 7% off the top for a pension, whether you want to pay in or not.

Thank you good stuff but sadly it will go right by most of these people and all they will do is b.i.t.c.h about unions and how it's all the teachers fault .

 

[BigBlue]

You're one parent out however many there are for SMCPS' 67,000+ students. I'm sorry but you're not a representative sample. And to be honest, do you actually know kids? How long do you think they actually have the pencils you bought them? I've seen a kid go through 3 in a single class. I swear, he must have been eating them or something. So what is the teacher to do? Supply them or tell the kid tough luck? You tell them tough luck, you're shooting yourself in the foot since their performance directly impacts your evaluations.

I think the thing that people are forgetting is that teachers work with kids. How many of the people that are posting here are parents? If you are, I want you to consider, for just a moment, how crazy your kids can drive if they are working at it. Now imagine taking your two or four kids and turning them into 20-30. Now imagine having to coordinate the activities of all 20-30 of your children so that they are able to meet the same standards as all the others. Can you honestly tell yourself that working with adults is as difficult? Maybe if you work in a psych ward or jail, yeah, but for the most part adults are much easier to get along with.

I'm not saying other jobs aren't hard but there are days I come home, hear how 'hard' a friend's desk job had been for them lately, and want to stab them in the eye. I recently had a colleague leave the profession and she and I still talk quite frequently. She told me her new job is cake compared to teaching and she's making twice the money. The way she described it, and I wish I could remember exactly what she said, was that teaching would be like trying to do a desk job where you were given a computer with a mind of its own and ADD, a stapler with oppositional defiant disorder, and pens that never had ink in them no matter how many times you replaced it.

I would invite anyone here to take a stab at teaching and see how they fare. It's not all apples and smiling cherubs. It's a jungle in there. Just my two cents.

I want add something else , I see the crap my spouse has to put up with just not with the kids put the PARENTS ,there is not a parent out there that does not think their child is perfect and when my wife has to tell them the bad news that they aren't or that there is a learning issue , ...holy chit you people take off on her and call her every name in the book .Now lets talk about you people of divorce and wanting the teacher to patrol your divorce decree ,my son can't go home with home on these days or those days ,I just wish some of you arrses would think of your kids as much as you b.i.t.c.h about each other or the union .My wife is there because she loves the kids and teaching but it is getting harder because the parents want to do less themselves and want the teachers to do more for less money yet if their boss's told them to do more for less they would have a chit fit .

 

[dixiepeach]

I want add something else , I see the crap my spouse has to put up with just not with the kids put the PARENTS ,there is not a parent out there that does not think their child is perfect and when my wife has to tell them the bad news that they aren't or that there is a learning issue , ...holy chit you people take off on her and call her every name in the book .Now lets talk about you people of divorce and wanting the teacher to patrol your divorce decree ,my son can't go home with home on these days or those days ,I just wish some of you arrses would think of your kids as much as you b.i.t.c.h about each other or the union .My wife is there because she loves the kids and teaching but it is getting harder because the parents want to do less themselves and want the teachers to do more for less money yet if their boss's told them to do more for less they would have a chit fit .

But what teachers don't understand is their benefit and retirement packages are GOLD. Something most of the rest of us don't have.

 

[intertidal]

But what teachers don't understand is their benefit and retirement packages are GOLD. Something most of the rest of us don't have.

Totally UNTRUE. The best benefit teachers have is social security - just like any other employees. The health insurance is often better in coverage and cost in the private sector. My kids working in the private sector have far better health insurance than their teacher mom and it costs them much less.

Only teachers hired before 12-31-1979 have retirement plans (not a pension) in MD. The pension (started 1-1-1980) "benefit" is an urban myth. Maryland teachers hired since 1-1-1980 and especially those after 7-1-2011, have the very worst pension in the US - by far. I have researched public pensions for a national organization for over a decade and I haven't found a worse pension value in the entire world. Teachers pay 7% of their salary toward a pension and the benefits of that pension are mathematically (on an actuarial basis) not worth 7% (in most annuity interest rate environments). A pension is nothing more than a fixed, or permanent, annuity, purchased by teachers over time - so basically, on lay-away - the very worst way to purchase anything. You (anyone) could buy a better pension for less money than teachers pay. Maryland is the only state in which the cost of the pension both exceeds SS (only 6.2% because the employer provides an equal match) and pays out less. In addition, the vesting period is 10 years, so any teacher who leaves in less than 10 years (which is most), merely gets their pension contribution returned - thus locking in their lost opportunity loss from investments not made over that time period. Surveyed state workers indicate that a major reason for leaving is 1. pay and 2. the bad pension. It is a tax on MD state workers and teachers. A defined benefit is only as good as its definition. They would be far better off with a 401K/457 plan due to the immediate vesting. The state is unwilling to change to a 401K/457 because even a very small match would cost them and they don't want to lose that tax from teachers and state workers. That is not my "opinion" - I have been involved with both negotiations and discussions at the state level on this issue. This state loves to have a pension fund to use as a slush fund. MD is one of the few states lacking both a constitutional amendment or law limiting or prohibiting official theft from the state pension fund. With lower contributions, the WI state pension fund is 100% funded while MD, with higher contributions is 61% funded. The difference is the loss from theft. The R candidate for Comptroller, Bill Campbell, is the only candidate talking about fixing this:
http://www.gazette.net/article/20140827/NEWS/140829311/1034&source=RSS&template=gazette

The pension myth is a perfect example of how people accept political talking points from those with an agenda - rather than researching the issue independently. Technically, it is no longer even a benefit. It is legally considered to be a condition of employment.

If you are concerned about pensions - you should be outraged that the state with the worst pension for teachers has the best pension for legislators. Our part-time legislators get double (3.0 multiplier v 1.5) the pensions of teachers and at much lower cost, with lower retirement ages than teachers' 65, and with lower vesting periods, fewer early retirement penalties - and to top it off, much higher increases after retirement. THAT is gold, as you put it.

You are correct in that many teachers and state workers don't understand their pensions. They need to save for retirement on their own before it is too late. Many wait until they have worked over 30 years to get an estimate and then find out they cannot realistically retire.

 

[NorthBeachPerso]

But what teachers don't understand is their benefit and retirement packages are GOLD. Something most of the rest of us don't have.

As Intertidal pointed out your definition of gold may be different than mine.

 

[MMM_donuts]

thank you. This has been and will continue to be my point. It is natural and normal for anyone to want higher pay, no matter their chosen career. It is natural and normal for anyone to not want to do work for which they dont feel they are being properly compensated or is outside of their contract.

Certainly there are SOME who do not hold up their end of the bargain, so to speak, in the education field but for the most part we are in the profession because we feel called to it and want to do the best we can for our students.

It is disheartening and hurtful to see the deep dislike and distrust that many feel. I am truly sorry that somewhere along the line some of you had the misfortune to be exposed to someone who should have left the profession far sooner than they did.

Yep, I totally agree.

I'll add this here, too. I've recently participated in a match thing where I get matched with a teacher somewhere and I donate supplies to her class. My match is an art teacher at a small southern school. All she really asked for were paper towels and stuff but said that she'd love to have a set of brushes or certain paints simply because what she is working with is so old.

Holy crap, did you even know how expensive art supplies are?! And that's not even for good stuff, just decently acceptable materials. It adds up really really really fast. I'm feeling a whole new respect for that and how some of these teachers make learning happen with what they're given.