Letter: Who's Hurting The Students

[Makavide]

I said what they get paid when they actually work. So it would be 177 days with them taking their leave. So your right it is $33.63 an hour. Like I said not a bad pay for the work you actually do.

if you look at this years the SMCPS School calendar, you will see the school year started on August 14th for teachers (actually August 11th for first year teacher orientation). The school year will end on June 17th for teachers. A total of 308 days (311 for 1st year teachers). take out the weekends (88 days) and holidays, winter break and spring break (25days) then you will find that the teachers are scheduled to be in the school for 195 days.

(and yes, my wife still spends time in the evening grading and preparing for the next day)

 

[CRHS89]

To add to what ampitt said about teachers not being able to "hang around the water cooler"....they also aren't able to spend a significant amount of the workday on these forums as many here seem to do while at work.

 

[BernieP]

I do not mean to insult teachers or devalue their profession. BUT
If I were to complain about my pay and work conditions I would be told I have a choice. I selected this career and employer, therefore if I don't like it, I can move on.
Teachers should not expect anything different.

AS for the income level in SMC. I still maintain these are BS numbers, statistics can be misleading. Salaries for jobs at NAVAIR are higher than those in other sectors in the county. But they are only a portion of the population. There are a lot of people who don't work on base and their pay is far lower.
In addition, real estate prices have either held steady or dropped over the last ten years.

The BOE is a joke, it's easy enough for them to ask for money because they are not going to feel the wrath of the taxpayer should taxes go up. That's going to be the legislators and county commisioners.

 

[awpitt]

I do not mean to insult teachers or devalue their profession. BUT
If I were to complain about my pay and work conditions I would be told I have a choice. I selected this career and employer, therefore if I don't like it, I can move on.
Teachers should not expect anything different.

AS for the income level in SMC. I still maintain these are BS numbers, statistics can be misleading. Salaries for jobs at NAVAIR are higher than those in other sectors in the county. But they are only a portion of the population. There are a lot of people who don't work on base and their pay is far lower.
In addition, real estate prices have either held steady or dropped over the last ten years.

The BOE is a joke, it's easy enough for them to ask for money because they are not going to feel the wrath of the taxpayer should taxes go up. That's going to be the legislators and county commisioners.

You, me, teachers, and anyone else should expect to get what they've been promised. That's the issue. To say, if you don't like it, move on" isn't the ansewer. It's a copout. If all the teachers followed your advice, there wouldn't be anyone left. One thing is for sure, the budget process for the school system is hosed. The BOE is expected to develop a budget each year not knowing what funding levels will come from the state and the county.

 

[Gilligan]

To add to what ampitt said about teachers not being able to "hang around the water cooler"....they also aren't able to spend a significant amount of the workday on these forums as many here seem to do while at work.

If my boss ever discovered how much time I spend on this forum, he'd fire me on the spot.

 

[laynpipe]

I get really tired of hearing people pick on teachers. I've never understood that. For the crap that they have to put up with from the students and the horrible parents, they deserve double what they are being paid.

Imagine the stress that teachers have. Students come to school with drugs, drunk, beaten, abused, the list goes on. If you want to compare a teachers pay to other careers, be sure to include that as a factor.

 

[SG_Player1974]

Just because NAVAIR contractors are suffering cut backs does that mean everyone has to, especially if it was promised in what, more or less, amounts to a legally-binding contract? This isn't a case of a contract that had contingencies written in to begin with being taken over by another company such as what happens at NAVAIR. Your way of thinking renders all contracts meaningless.

I'm pretty sure grading homework after school hours and after-school activities are considered extraordinary.

Ummm. Doesn't this contradict what you were posting in the OTHER thread about this? Also... were you ever able to dig up the proven reasons why the Teachers/unions have not persued LEGAL action due to the infactions against this "legally-binding contract?"

It's 7-1/2 hrs a day for 190 days. That works out to $31.35/hr, which is a $5,800+ difference annually than what you are proposing. Most would consider that a substantial difference. In addition, they have to make that money last through the summer months so their hourly wage, realitistically, turns out to be a bit lower. If they were working the typical 40-hr/week job they'd only be making $21.48/hr. As for their paid days off, yeah, I'm kind of jealous too, but I don't resent or begrudge them for it.

No where in here do I see the allowances for the "teacher in-service days" or the inclimate wether days (snow days) I wish I could just get paid to stay at home when we get 2 inches of snow!.... not to mention the fairly posh medical benefits that the unions negotiated for them when most others are paying out the nose.

Also... dont the teachers have an option to take their salaries and have it dispursed equally throughout the ENTIRE year? So that shoots down your "actually making less" theory.

Im not saying teachers dont deserve more.... I am just saying they dont have it as bad as some people think! AND.... why dont they take legal action to get it fixed? be it against the school board, couny commissioners, whomever...

 

[SG_Player1974]

Imagine the stress that teachers have. Students come to school with drugs, drunk, beaten, abused, the list goes on. If you want to compare a teachers pay to other careers, be sure to include that as a factor.

I know quite a few THOUSAND people over in the sand box that make FAR less than what teachers do! I think they have it just a tad worse

 

[Radiant1]

You, me, teachers, and anyone else should expect to get what they've been promised. That's the issue. To say, if you don't like it, move on" isn't the ansewer. It's a copout.

Not only that, but it makes contracts completley meaningless and as a result the legal system impotent.

Ummm. Doesn't this contradict what you were posting in the OTHER thread about this? Also... were you ever able to dig up the proven reasons why the Teachers/unions have not persued LEGAL action due to the infactions against this "legally-binding contract?"

No and no.

No where in here do I see the allowances for the "teacher in-service days" or the inclimate wether days (snow days) I wish I could just get paid to stay at home when we get 2 inches of snow!.... not to mention the fairly posh medical benefits that the unions negotiated for them when most others are paying out the nose.

Also... dont the teachers have an option to take their salaries and have it dispursed equally throughout the ENTIRE year? So that shoots down your "actually making less" theory.

Im not saying teachers dont deserve more.... I am just saying they dont have it as bad as some people think! AND.... why dont they take legal action to get it fixed? be it against the school board, couny commissioners, whomever...

If you don't like your current job, then become a teacher!

As far as I know they can disperse their income throughout the year, which means in actuality they are making less per hour than what was established by TerriT with the 190 days. Or, the other way to think of it is, yeah they get paid $30+/hr but they DON'T get paid for nearly two months out of the year. :shrug:

My only point is that they are indeed owed what they were legally promised. It's not about how much money they're already making, or how much time off they get, or how much vacation time they get, or if they physically work harder than anyone else, or even if they deserve any of it. It's simply about the county owing them what was promised. No more and no less. It really is that simple, but everyone seems to have a chip on their shoulder and muck up things with their subjective opinions on teachers or teaching in general.

 

[NorthBeachPerso]

Couple of things, teachers get paid for the 190 (or so, a couple systems have a day or two more) they work. Those days can be anywhere between July 1 and June 30, the fiscal year. So yes, teachers get "paid" for snow days. But when they're made up in June they're "unpaid", you're just making up the day you missed and were paid for back in January.

Also, and we've had this discussion before, teachers in most systems in MD have the choice to get paid 22 times per year or 26 times. The 22 times is during the school year and ends with the last pay in June. The 26 pay option is year round pay. The check is smaller each time but the additional 4 pays (the summer) is deferred compensation for the 190 days, or so, of the school year.

As to contracts. Contracts are binding in MD except for teachers. When teachers were given the right to collective bargaining back in the 1970s one of the components was that the County or School Board could declare a fiscal emergency and void the salary, and in certain circumstances the benefits, agreed to in the contract with the teacher's Association (not union, can't use that word in MD as it relates to teachers). That's why school boards are able to not honor contracts. If the funding doesn't come from the County Commissioners it's not there for the School Board. That was done because in MD school boards don't have taxing authority, as they do in states like PA, and could agree to outrageous terms that the Commissioners would have to find funding for.

That's the short course, I haven't even gone into MoE (Maintenance of Effort).

 

[BernieP]

You, me, teachers, and anyone else should expect to get what they've been promised. That's the issue. To say, if you don't like it, move on" isn't the ansewer. It's a copout. If all the teachers followed your advice, there wouldn't be anyone left. One thing is for sure, the budget process for the school system is hosed. The BOE is expected to develop a budget each year not knowing what funding levels will come from the state and the county.

In a perfect world, but I've been promised a lot that was not delivered. The rationale was and is, "schmidt happens". If there is a breach of contract the teachers, thru their union, should pursue legal action.
They should exercise their rights under the law. I'm just saying, don't expect any sympathy from the public with the state of the economy. When your largest employer is actively cutting salaries up to 30 percent, not getting a pay raise is going to fall on deaf ears.

Maryland is nothing short of a dictatorship, run out of Baltimore - I know, Annapolis is the nominal "state capital" but all the decisions come out of Baltimore.
When an agency produces a budget it should have to include not just the expenditures but how it is to be funded. The BOE gets to pass the buck on the "how to" to the county governemnt.
The county BOC doesn't have the authority to increase taxes, they need state legilature and administration approval to do so.
For it's part the state does not provide a stead stream of funding, i.e. a clear formula for what the local governments can expect. Instead it's broken down and the local government / schools have to apply for grants and programs.
It's a system that gives the state a large say in how the county and it's school system are run. In effect, we vote for a County BOC and a BOE, but are really under the control of agencies in Baltimore.

 

[Makavide]

No where in here do I see the allowances for the "teacher in-service days" or the inclimate wether days (snow days) I wish I could just get paid to stay at home when we get 2 inches of snow!.... not to mention the fairly posh medical benefits that the unions negotiated for them when most others are paying out the nose.

The current school calendar has the students in school for 185 days, and the teachers in school for 195 days. The state mandates that students shall attend a minimum of 180 days. 5 of those 185/195 days are allotted for "weather" days. If they are not utilized during the year, then the school year ends 5 days earlier. If some are utilized during the year, then the amount of those used days are kept on. If more then 5 of the days are utilized, then the school board finds ways of extending the school year. In years past they have cut back the spring break, or kept the school year open longer, etc. Sometimes the state will "forgive" some of the missed days, if a "State" emergency was declared. So the teachers do not (always) get free days off for snow - their school year is affected. (I know a few whose planned vacation trips were cancelled, with some money lost, because of making up snow days)

Those 10 in-service days - 3 are used at the beginning of the year to get themselves and the classrooms ready for the incoming class. 2 are used at the end of the year to count books, clean rooms, box things up - just in case they will change rooms the next year. The rest are used for parent/teacher conferences, workshops, etc...

.... not to mention the fairly posh medical benefits that the unions negotiated for them when most others are paying out the nose.

And the posh medical benefits - the teachers saw an increase in their cost for their insurance just like everyone else.

Also... dont the teachers have an option to take their salaries and have it dispursed equally throughout the ENTIRE year? So that shoots down your "actually making less" theory.

no they don't have the option. their pay is spread out over 12 months.

 

[Makavide]

I know quite a few THOUSAND people over in the sand box that make FAR less than what teachers do! I think they have it just a tad worse

sorry, based on my experience - teachers have it worse than I did.....
....They have to put up with the little "tykes" and their parents....

 

[BernieP]

I get really tired of hearing people pick on teachers. I've never understood that. For the crap that they have to put up with from the students and the horrible parents, they deserve double what they are being paid.

Imagine the stress that teachers have. Students come to school with drugs, drunk, beaten, abused, the list goes on. If you want to compare a teachers pay to other careers, be sure to include that as a factor.

it gets real dangerous comparing the stressors in different professions.
A registered nurse is typically responsible for an entier "floor" of a hospital. They are responsible for the care, which includes the medication, of every patient on that floor. A lot of the time there is one RN per shift.
That could be different in MD, but I know that's how it works in other states. It doesn't mean they do all the work, but they are held responsible. Another profession you might enjoy is air traffic controller, not as highly paid as the FAA would like you to believe and it's a job that is both tedious and a lot of stress from the respobibility.
Law Enforcement?
Shoot, Infantry - think about what we pay the guys who are on the front lines.

We could go on and on arguing who was underpaid based on their workload.

Which comes back to, we have the freedom to make the choice of what we want to do, where we want to live, well at least today we do.

 

[alex]

Yeah but a nurse has more responsibility and needs to carry malpractice insurance.

 

[CRHS89]

Why is this such a Pi**ing contest??? "I have it harder than you" "I work harder than you do" blah blah blah....If we want to complain and compare hard work and worthiness, how about we do it with actors and athletes, not everyday average people. Now their pay is something I can understand people being upset about. But comparing why a teacher has it harder/easier than a nurse or a contractor?

 

[PeoplesElbow]

Teaching is the only profession that tricks people into thinking it is a glamorous high paying job clear up until the teacher is employed and gets their first pay check. I can definitely understand why they are always complaining about what they make. If it was known ahead of time that it didn't pay all that well and that kids and parents can be a pain in the butt it might be different.

 

[NorthBeachPerso]

Yeah but a nurse has more responsibility and needs to carry malpractice insurance.

So do teachers.

 

[Lurk]

So do teachers.

Generally that is carried by the Unio.... er Association.

 

[NorthBeachPerso]

Generally that is carried by the Unio.... er Association.

Let me look at my last pay stub...................................There's a deduction for it separate from dues.