Liar, character assassin, bigot – Pete Buttigieg is a natural leader for the Democrats.

[Yooper]

Resume building? Is that going to be the take of being in the Naval reserves and going into a war zone? Is that what you would tell fellow Harvard graduate Dan Crenshaw ? He went into a war zone to build his resume? Come on, you know that's ridiculous.

I'll leave the Pence question aside. We disagree with what happened/what was meant in this latest with Buttigieg's on-going thing with Pence.

But resume building. While I didn't say it was true, I do stand by my comment that it is possible.

In my 30-year military career I knew MANY officers whose service (to include in war zones) was in service to future opportunity. Be it promotion to higher rank, business opportunities afterward, political office, etc. Folks who put their subordinates second to their climbing the ladder of self-service.

Here's another example (sure to piss off numerous service academy-affiliated folks). I realize these days it's different (and that we shouldn't be so harsh on 18 yo kids), but back in my day (when 18 yo were demonstrably more grown up than kids the same age today) one of the admissions considerations to a service academy was the expectation that these cadets - being the best of the best and in return for a completely paid-for education and preferences that would give these young men & women a leg up on their ROTC and OCS "competitors" - would serve for at least 20 years (and maybe for the full 30).

But you know what? Most (not a few, not many, but a majority) of these service academy graduates got out after their initial commitment was up (aviators served a longer initial commitment, but the exit dynamic was the same). Why? Because for many of these young men and women (not all, but a far higher %-age than the services were thrilled with), a service academy education followed by a few years of active duty was good for their resume. (As an aside, because of this I was a career-long critic of the service academy model; preferring to see it evolve into a junior officer finishing school).

Look at the former military folks in Congress and tell me that for at least some of them this isn't the case (one example, Ted Lieu of CA). So yes, resume building. Not so ridiculous.

Finally, Crenshaw. The difference in comportment between him and Buttigieg - to my old, grizzled eyes - couldn't be more different.

I appreciate your take. I guess - at this point - we'll just have to agree to disagree. I could be completely wrong. Willing to admit it as I have often been so. Also willing to adjust my take on Buttigieg if as I see more of him it becomes apparent my first takes were perhaps too quick on the draw. But at this point, Buttigieg seems awfully like those many officers I mentioned above.

Thanks for the back and forth!

--- End of line (MCP)

 

[truby20]

I'll leave the Pence question aside. We disagree with what happened/what was meant in this latest with Buttigieg 's on-going thing with Pence.

But resume building. While I didn't say it was true, I do stand by my comment that it is possible.

In my 30-year military career I knew MANY officers whose service (to include in war zones) was in service to future opportunity. Be it promotion to higher rank, business opportunities afterward, political office, etc. Folks who put their subordinates second to their climbing the ladder of self-service.

--- End of line (MCP)

I've never served and have little experience with the military socially and professionally. I can understand that there are ladder climbers there as there are in so many aspects of life. To me though, to go into war zone, to put yourself at such a risk, not just from being injured, but the mental toll...when he obviously could have probably gotten an amazing job and had a very comfortable life in many industries, seems to speak at least somewhat to a want to serve. He doesn't seem to wear it on his sleeve, but it obviously comes up since it is so unique in this group of candidates.

I think you'll have a lot of opportunities to build a deeper opinion of him.

I really took a lot away of this appearance on morning joe from a few weeks ago, talking about his thoughts on Afghanistan and even going into what we're losing as a country because only a certain portion of our county is serving...it's about at the halfway point. One of the major problems facing us is our loss of community, that's inflaming what we feel as our divisions.

 

[Merlin99]

if he gets elected Petezaa could go national. A new federal holiday.

 

[Yooper]

I really took a lot away of this appearance on morning joe from a few weeks ago, talking about his thoughts on Afghanistan and even going into what we're losing as a country because only a certain portion of our county is serving...it's about at the halfway point. One of the major problems facing us is our loss of community, that's inflaming what we feel as our divisions.

I'll take a look at the video shortly, but what stood out from your post is his observation about loss of community. My immediate thought: I wonder if he feels any sense that he is part of this problem...? As in, attacks on folks who disagree with his homosexuality...? I could care less what he does in his personal life from a secular perspective (the political process), but as a Christian I cannot "bless" his life choice. I should be able to say that my belief system names his choice a sin without him or his supporters accusing me of being homophobic (that being the least of the attacks). That kind of stance is what's divisive.

Back to the resume building thing....

Without belaboring the point (because this is one of those triggering things for me; Anton Myrer's "Once An Eagle" is very personal to me) that's why it's important to contrast Crenshaw and Buttigieg. Both come across as initially fairly similar. But I cannot shake the impression that Crenshaw comes across as a citizen(-soldier) first, politician second while Buttigieg comes across as a politician first, citizen(-soldier) second. Crenshaw seems gracious, Buttigieg seems divisive. That Crenshaw was a fighter (SEAL) while Buttigieg was an intelligence officer seems to buttress my point about doing service that's not too dangerous because service isn't the goal here. His deployment - only seven months - has, at least at first glance, all the hallmarks of a resume building event. That he served 8 years (thank you for your service, right?) seems to support the "strategy" I referred to in my comment about service academy grads. That he was a political animal before his military service does nothing to allay my suspicions that mil service had an ulterior motive.

If you have military acquaintances ask them. Show them his resume without revealing his name. I'm betting you'll find other lifers' reactions quite similar to my take. Bet you'll get the same (or similar) reactions from the green- and blue-camo gang (not just "lifer dogs") here on the forum.

I think you'll have a lot of opportunities to build a deeper opinion of him.

All said and done, he has a long, hard road ahead of him if he wants to gain my interest, never mind vote.

But despite all my faults (which are numerous) I'm open to persuasion. I guess we'll see.

Wishing you a great evening!

--- End of line (MCP)

 

[vraiblonde]

From the tone and lack of real substance in these posts about him I don't think you've actually listened to him talk, or not nearly as closely as you did that instagram live video of Elizabeth Warren having a beer (the horror, lol).

I've listened to him speak and I follow him on Twitter. My initial impression of him was, "Folks, we've got a contender!" Then he made that ridiculous and unwarranted attack on Mike Pence - "Look at me being gay! "- and now I think he's another dumb boring activist.

By all accounts - even Bootyjudge's own - he and Pence worked well together and were friends. Now he's going off the rails to get attention from the prog base - "See me being a victim?? A GAY!!! victim!!!!"

I'm done with identity politics activist Presidents. The 8 years of Obama were enough for me.

And the reason I call him "Bootyjudge" is because it's easier than trying to remember how to spell his name correctly. Plus there are people who have no idea how to pronounce his name, and I am here to help. His own husband used that exact word on...I think it was Instagram...to explain how Pete's last name is pronounced. So go yell at him.

 

[GURPS]

I don't think you've actually listened to him talk,

Umm WTF would I do that for I'M NOT VOTING DEMOCRAT

If the best you've got against him is that he's married to a man

My Objection is to his POLITICS not whose dick he is sucking

 

[GURPS]

I should be able to say that my belief system names his choice a sin without him or his supporters accusing me of being homophobic (that being the least of the attacks). That kind of stance is what's divisive.

but that is what the do ... label you a 'hater' and dismiss you as irrelevant

 

[LightRoasted]

If I may ...

OMG...let's have some fun with this one!!

I keep trying and trying. But you never respond to my missives. For this to work T, ya know, you have to play along. Won't you play with me?

 

[LightRoasted]

If I may ...

In my 30-year military career I knew MANY officers whose service (to include in war zones) was in service to future opportunity. Be it promotion to higher rank, business opportunities afterward, political office, etc. Folks who put their subordinates second to their climbing the ladder of self-service.

Here's another example (sure to piss off numerous service academy-affiliated folks). I realize these days it's different (and that we shouldn't be so harsh on 18 yo kids), but back in my day (when 18 yo were demonstrably more grown up than kids the same age today) one of the admissions considerations to a service academy was the expectation that these cadets - being the best of the best and in return for a completely paid-for education and preferences that would give these young men & women a leg up on their ROTC and OCS "competitors" - would serve for at least 20 years (and maybe for the full 30).

OMG! If this isn't the truth. Too many officers, especially, super especially, during wartime, looking for feathers to line their caps. It's these kind of officers that get/got men killed for no good stupid reasons. There have been few officers that I actually respected. And the few that there were, were those that transitioned from the enlisted ranks. Yes, there were some straight OCS types that actually took the time to care for, and treat their men with the respect deserved. Many could give a sh-t though. And ironically, it's those officers that couldn't give a sh-t that got the promotions, sooner and more often. Of course, during war, if the officer didn't straighten up and command correctly, mission and men first, these officers had the type of accidents that required flights back home in a metal box. Hard to do that during peacetime though.

 

[Yooper]

If I may ...


OMG! If this isn't the truth. Too many officers, especially, super especially, during wartime, looking for feathers to line their caps. It's these kind of officers that get/got men killed for no good stupid reasons. There have been few officers that I actually respected. And the few that there were, were those that transitioned from the enlisted ranks. Yes, there were some straight OCS types that actually took the time to care for, and treat their men with the respect deserved. Many could give a sh-t though. And ironically, it's those officers that couldn't give a sh-t that got the promotions, sooner and more often. Of course, during war, if the officer didn't straighten up and command correctly, mission and men first, these officers had the type of accidents that required flights back home in a metal box. Hard to do that during peacetime though.

I tend to agree with the general sentiment (as expressed in my OP).

But I have a less harsh view from my perch: ROTC, Regular Army commission, 30-years retiring at a senior rank. I saw many good officers; most, in fact. But those few, those merry few (to riff off of Shakespeare), my goodness, how awful. Gave the Officer Corps a bad name.

Maybe different services had different "Massengale percentages" (a "Once An Eagle" reference) so I will only speak about my service - Army (even though much of my career was joint).

All this experience may have caused me to judge the subject of this thread more harshly then he deserves. But I don't think so. But, as I did say, we'll see.

--- End of line (MCP)

 

[Hijinx]

I should be able to say that my belief system names his choice a sin without him or his supporters accusing me of being homophobic (that being the least of the attacks). That kind of stance is what's divisive.

Leaving religion out of it and only being a heterosexual male, I should be able to say that my revulsion at two men taking turns in poking each other in the anus is a legitimate opinion and does not make me a homophobe.

 

[Yooper]

I should be able to say that my belief system names his choice a sin without him or his supporters accusing me of being homophobic (that being the least of the attacks). That kind of stance is what's divisive.

Leaving religion out of it and only being a heterosexual male, I should be able to say that my revulsion at two men taking turns in poking each other in the anus is NOT a legitimate opinion and does not make me a homophobe.

FIFY?

--- End of line (MCP)

 

[Toxick]

Leaving religion out of it and only being a heterosexual male, I should be able to say that my revulsion at two men taking turns in poking each other in the anus is a legitimate opinion and does not make me a homophobe.

Actually, that's kind of the definition of a homophobe.



Although the dictionary is probably less graphic and doesn't mention the poking of anuses (ani?)

 

[Yooper]

Actually, that's kind of the definition of a homophobe.

And therein lies the essence of the culture war.

A phobia is an irrational fear of something. That I may disagree - in this case - with the gay lifestyle doesn't make me irrationally afraid of gays, lesbians, etc. Just like my disagreement with the casino culture doesn't make me irrationally afraid of gamblers. I still hang out with folks who hold to a wide range of views/beliefs I disagree with. And with none of them do I have an irrational fear.

The Left understands the value in labeling. They're experts at it. And with a main stream media that identifies predominately as Left, our daily barrage uses these fake terms without ceasing (until we find ourselves using them without thinking what we are doing - losing the propaganda war being waged on the Right).

--- End of line (MCP)

 

[vraiblonde]

That's another reason why I don't like Bootyjudge: if you criticize him or disagree with him, it can't be because his ideas are wack. It has to be because he's gay and you're a bigot.

Special interest people and their cries of "RACIST! BIGOT!" are boring and I don't want one as President. 8 years of Obama was enough of that chit.

 

[Midnightrider]

Umm WTF would I do that for I'M NOT VOTING

fixed for accuracy

 

[Toxick]

A phobia is an irrational fear of something. That I may disagree - in this case - with the gay lifestyle doesn't make me irrationally afraid of gays, lesbians, etc.

Semantics.


Don't like the word homophobe? Islamophobe? Phobophobe… find another, more accurate, term. Wonderful thing about the English language - it's alive and evolving.

Currently, the word means what it means. I'm not about to debate that homophobe means something else because you don't like the term, and the root words don't add up.




If you're going to debate at that level, the word homophobe means you're afraid of things like yourself.

You know, because "homo" doesn't mean "gay" it means "the same".




Pfft.

 

[GURPS]

fixed for accuracy

you dont know WTF you are talking about crap for brains

 

[Midnightrider]

you dont know WTF you are talking about crap for brains

i know exactly what i am talking about; a loser who didn't vote in the last presidential election.


BTW, learn to use punctuation

 

[vraiblonde]

Don't like the word homophobe?

I don't like the word "homophobe" because it's a stupid made up word that doesn't mean anything. I'm not a fan of how the progs **** up our language and change the meanings of words so they'll have something simple to scream at people they disagree with. It's a little too 1984 for me.