Oh look - it's AP "fact check".
"Nobody cares" is a figure of speech, Sport. Of course there will always be someone in the universe somewhere who cares, no matter the topic. When I say "nobody cares" I don't mean absolutely zero people care; I mean the vast majority of humans do not care.
Glad to be able to clear up our tricky American idioms for you. Welcome to the US and please enjoy your stay.
Let me remind you how this went.
At this point, who cares if he gets pardoned? It's within Trump's right to do so.
My issue is that Manafort is a part of the swamp. A well-known part of the Washington swamp and Trump chose to retain his services while at the same time claiming he would drain the swamp. If he does pardon Manafort, he's showing he's not serious about his campaign promises (as if he was to begin with).
You know, I'm beginning to think that they're all the swamp. I've said many times, sane people want no part of DC politics and the media assassination that goes along with it. Trump had to pick someone to fill these positions....who else was there? Plus I think all these guys - including Trump - have money shenanigans of some sort. I don't think you get to that level of wealth without fudging something.
What should disturb all of us - even you, Chris - is that this is indeed a political witch hunt. Why are they going after these piddly tax cheats and ignoring the Clintonistas? Hillary, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Barack Obama, the Podesta brothers.....not a peep. And what they are accused of is WAY more alarming than some bank fraud. So why no investigations?
The argument was that the people who elected Trump did so ignoring what the media told them to think. If Trump says what everyone was thinking, he didn't need a member of the swamp to lead his campaign. Trump, the same person who told all of American that he picks only the best of the best, chose this man for whatever reason and never vetted him (like some of his other picks for various positions). I'm with you that there are some crony people in Washington but the best way to start getting rid of them, which Trump voters said they wanted, is to not pardon them for their crimes. You can't expect your kids to change by telling them no, then letting them get away with it anyway.
The fact of the matter is, is it illegal or not? You can agree or disagree that the crimes don't amount to much but you're essentially arguing that a police officer comes to your home for an unrelated incident and finds drugs in plain view but should ignore it because it's no big deal. To quote "This_Person", don't agree with the law, change it. I personally don't think people should be cheating the system for their own personal gain in the way Manafort did, but perhaps I'm alone in my thinking.
Contrary to your belief, it does bother me that none of those you mentioned amounted to much in terms of investigations and/or charges being brought, but I'm not law enforcement. You're not law enforcement. I think it sucks when someone kills someone else and gets a case of "afluenza" and gets off easy (as an example). Our justice system is not fair, period. I argue this all the time relating to drugs and civil asset forefiture but no one bats an eye. One of Trump's guys is found guilty by a jury of his peers and now it's an issue?
Nobody cares about Paul Manafort or Michael Cohen. What they care about is the dark turn this "investigation" has taken, as it pertains to our government and what we've allowed it to become. It's clear that Mueller - more specifically, his directors and handlers - want Trump impeached and removed. It is Mueller's job to find something - anything - that will achieve that goal. The Lanny Davis involvement is just the cherry on the sundae because he can help avenge his girl, Hillary, who has never gotten over losing that election.
If we allow them to unseat the President we elected, that's the end of our democracy. At that point we will be no better than some third world #### hole where we no longer elect our officials; they are forced out at gunpoint.
You can scoff and say I'm being melodramatic if you want, but a quick trip through a history book will tell you that's how it happens.
Above you will see that you talk about how no one cares and the "dark turn" the investigation has taken because we allowed government to become something (and that something is prosecuting people who broke the law?)
Below, you will see that I acknowledge that part of your statement by telling you that we have the government we've asked for. I've fully addressed your comment here.
Mueller has every right to do what he's doing. For someone who argues the simplicity of not being arrested, you sure seem to be overlooking that ni this case. How often have you said, "don't want to go to jail, don't break the law"? It's a simple concept and had Manafort and Cohen not broken the law, they sure wouldn't be in this position, would they?
Republicans control Congress. They aren't going to impeach a sitting Republican President.
Let me remind you that all this sits squarely on the shoulders of everyone who has elected these people over the last few decades. We have this government solely because we, the people, made it so. "We" don't want someone who fights for liberty for everyone. "We" don't want someone who worries about the deficit. "We" want someone to "tell it like it is" and all the transgressions that come with it. "We" want someone willing to strip away basic tenants of our Constitution in the name of safety. "We" want a government-mandated healthcare system. "We" chose to give the government the power they have. "We" no longer exist to curtail the powers of the government. The basic foundation of this country should never have gotten us here, but it did, only because we made it so.
Are you hallucinating?
I said right in my very first sentence that nobody cares about Manafort and Cohen. It would behoove you to read next time before you respond to what the voices in your head tell you I posted.
For some reason, you bring up the "nobody cares about Manafort and Cohen" thing again. Even after specifically discussing all of what you brought up, you ask if I'm hallucinating?
I read it. Perhaps next time you can choose to respond to all of my post instead of the cherry-picked portion you personally don't agree with.
If no one cared, it wouldn't be news. You can pretend that this isn't a big deal and the only reason it's in the news is because it's some deep-state progbot ploy to unseat duly-elected Trump. I think if the roles were reversed and it were a Democrat in office, this forum would explode with rage about how corrupt and crony the President and the Democratic party is.
Partisan tribal politics is what you all want and preach and get all pissy when it happens.
Here is where I point out that you failed to discuss where I actually commented on the meat of your statement.
Like you did when you said "nobody cares about Manafort or Cohen"? That's a flat out lie. If you don't want to engage is a discussion about it, don't. But you don't have to make stuff up to prove your point.
Here's where I quoted you saying "when you start off with lies".
Oh look - it's AP "fact check".
"Nobody cares" is a figure of speech, Sport. Of course there will always be someone in the universe somewhere who cares, no matter the topic. When I say "nobody cares" I don't mean absolutely zero people care; I mean the vast majority of humans do not care.
Glad to be able to clear up our tricky American idioms for you. Welcome to the US and please enjoy your stay.
Now you've shifted the goal posts 150 yards and want to talk about your "figure of speech" and
still peddle your made-up assertion that "the vast majority of humans do not care". I suppose now you'll argue that by "all humans" you actually do mean all humans on earth and tribes in the Amazon really don't care about this?
Remember that this started off with you whining that [the vast majority of humans] don't care about Manafort and Cohen. To which I disagreed by pointing out how it's in the news and being broadly discussed because it is, in fact, a big deal. I also stated that you can choose to agree with that or not. I addressed your comment about the government (that portion was specifically quoted by someone else in the thread, so at least some people are paying attention) to which you asked if I was hallucinating and cherry-picked one portion of my post, ignoring where I addressed your point. Now, you want to argue what you meant by "nobody cares" and ignore the glaringly obvious fact that your point was addressed. You just failed to follow up and now it's my fault for some reason.