Mayor Pete Wants to Decriminalize 'Meth, Coke, Ecstasy,' Not Just Pot

[Midnightrider]

We dont really have any evidence to go on, do we? I think extrapolating from tiny other countries might not be valid, anymore than extrapolating from the late 1800s. I also think that unintended consequences are a real thing. And that no orphanage is a replacement for a decent family home.

We don’t have to extrapolate from tiny countries, we can use our own experience with alcohol.
We already have the consequences because we already have the drugs. The difference is that if a person gets into the judicial system it greatly impacts their lives. How many of those kids are in the foster system because mom got busted for illegal possession? How many kids are orphaned every year from ODs right now?

 

[vraiblonde]

Some of you may die.
But that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make!

Me too but for every me there are millions of not-mes and they think everyone needs to live forever and they want me to pay for it. If we were a sensible pragmatic country, we'd put our rabid humans to death instead of caging them for life.

Therefore I am against drug legalization simply because I cannot trust my fellow Americans to let the chips fall where they may.

 

[This_person]

We don’t have to extrapolate from tiny countries, we can use our own experience with alcohol.

More accurately, we could use our own experiences with drugs, since that's a recent change in some states and can be shown what actually happens. We did it in small experiments, and the opposite of your position is what happened. Reality vs. fantasy and all that.

We already have the consequences because we already have the drugs. The difference is that if a person gets into the judicial system it greatly impacts their lives. How many of those kids are in the foster system because mom got busted for illegal possession? How many kids are orphaned every year from ODs right now?

Great questions. What are the answers? How many kids are in foster homes because their mother and father got busted for illegal possession? How many kids are orphaned every year from drug ODs?

Do you have answers, or are you simply trying to make an emotional argument devoid of facts?

 

[This_person]

We don’t have to extrapolate from tiny countries, we can use our own experience with alcohol.

More accurately, we could use our own experiences with drugs, since that's a recent change in some states and can be shown what actually happens. We did it in small experiments, and the opposite of your position is what happened. Reality vs. fantasy and all that.

We already have the consequences because we already have the drugs. The difference is that if a person gets into the judicial system it greatly impacts their lives. How many of those kids are in the foster system because mom got busted for illegal possession? How many kids are orphaned every year from ODs right now?

Great questions. What are the answers? How many kids are in foster homes because their mother and father got busted for illegal possession? How many kids are orphaned every year from drug ODs?

Do you have answers, or are you simply trying to make an emotional argument devoid of facts?

 

[Monello]

How many kids are orphaned every year from drug ODs?

I found your question interesting, so I did a little digging. Here's a quote from 1 article:

In 2016, about 274,000 children entered the foster care system, 22,000 more than in 2012. One-third of those youngsters were removed from their homes because at least one parent had a drug abuse issue.

impact

 

[This_person]

I found your question interesting, so I did a little digging. Here's a quote from 1 article:


impact

So, roughly 90,000 kids/year per your quote.

But, another quote from a different source struck me:

an estimated 20,939 American children were put in foster care when a parent was incarcerated in 2016, according to the Department of Health and Human Services.

So, from that, we can see that 90,000 kids are put into foster care for their parents being incarcerated for drug possession out of the 21,000 kids per year put into foster care for their parents being incarcerated for all reasons. That's 430% of the kids for all reasons being due to the one reason of drug possession.

I think there's an issue with the numbers somewhere.

 

[Monello]

So, roughly 90,000 kids/year per your quote.

But, another quote from a different source struck me:


So, from that, we can see that 90,000 kids are put into foster care for their parents being incarcerated for drug possession out of the 21,000 kids per year put into foster care for their parents being incarcerated for all reasons. That's 430% of the kids for all reasons being due to the one reason of drug possession.

I think there's an issue with the numbers somewhere.

My quote is for kids being put into FC due to parents' drug involvement. That would include arrest, death and LT treatment & unsuitability. 21K is a subset of the 91K.

 

[This_person]

My quote is for kids being put into FC due to parents' drug involvement. That would include arrest, death and LT treatment & unsuitability. 21K is a subset of the 91K.

Overlap, maybe? Because, the 21,000 is the total number of kids put into foster care for their parents being incarcerated - for all reasons of incarceration. So, only a subset of the 21,000 is due to drug possession.

I get (now) what you're saying about the 90,000/year for all reasons related to parental drug use. So, a subset of the 21,000 is a subset of the 90,000.

Presumably, of the 90,000, some are reunited with family when they get clean. So, if we assume the birthrate of children is roughly 4,000,000/year, and there's 18 years someone is considered a "child" to be put into foster care, we can say that something around 0.1% of kids are impacted by this. Another way of saying that is 99.9% of kids are NOT impacted by this.

 

[Monello]

Another way of saying that is 99.9% of kids are NOT impacted by this.

Agreed.

What is interesting is that like a lot of things that we discuss or argue about on the forums impacts a small percentage of the population. Things don't become a huge issue until it impacts you personally. And by personally I don't mean it impacts your neighbor's mechanic's 3rd cousin.

 

[This_person]

Agreed.

What is interesting is that like a lot of things that we discuss or argue about on the forums impacts a small percentage of the population. Things don't become a huge issue until it impacts you personally. And by personally I don't mean it impacts your neighbor's mechanic's 3rd cousin.

Second cousin, maybe......




The thing is, it's very sad when parents due something illegal and it hurts their children. Whether it's 0.1% of kids or 92% of kids, it's still sad.

The original poster of the question was MidnightSpanker. His goal was to inject emotion into a discussion on facts, because his position is not supportable by facts. It's clear that, in the United States in the 21st century, legalizing drugs leads to more use of drugs. More use of drugs leads to more problems for more people, because using drugs does not positively impact someone's life. Your 90,0000 is pretty good proof of that, and it would only get worse if we legalized drugs. It's not a small thing. It's not insignificant in terms of the lives impacted. His argument, though, is dead wrong because it would make things worse, not better.

 

[GURPS]

It's clear that, in the United States in the 21st century, legalizing drugs leads to more use of drugs.

in the short term. Portugal did not have such issues long term, but then their population is smaller

 

[Toxick]

Me too but for every me there are millions of not-mes and they think everyone needs to live forever and they want me to pay for it.

Yeah but those will be the ones sleeping on cardboard in abandoned buildings. They'll be gone in the first wave

 

[This_person]

 

[RoseRed]

View attachment 143924

Montana Police Blotter?

 

[This_person]

Montana Police Blotter?

Probably

 

[Freefaller]

“Incarceration should not even be a response to drug possession,” Buttigieg told editors at the Des Moines Register.

An editor pressed him, “Is that across the board? So if it’s meth or coke or ecstasy, any drugs, if it’s possession, incarceration isn’t…”

“That’s right,” Mayor Pete said.

"I would not have said even five years ago what I believe now, which is that incarceration should not even be a response to drug possession," the candidate added. "What I’ve seen is that while there continue to be all kinds of harms associated with drug possession and use, it’s also the case that we have created—in an effort to deal with what amounts to a public health problem—we have created an even bigger problem. A justice problem and its form of a health problem."

https://pjmedia.com/trending/mayor-pete-wants-to-decriminalize-meth-coke-ecstasy-not-just-pot/

If he were elected, can you imagine what type of parties they'd be having in the Lincoln Bedroom?