McCain Involved in 5 Major Mishaps in Navy

[El_Kabong]

The politics of revisiting the past...

WaPo FactChecker:
McCain fudges his Navy record
Controversy has surrounded a series of crashes involving planes piloted by John McCain while serving in the U.S. Navy. In his autobiography, the Republican presidential candidate maintained that a couple of the accidents were caused by engine failure. But an official investigation by the Naval Aviation Safety Center makes clear that the first accident, in March 1960, was caused exclusively by pilot error.

The Facts
During the course of his flying career with the U.S. Navy, John McCain was involved in at least five major mishaps or crashes involving his plane. The most dramatic incidents occurred in 1967. He barely escaped with his life after a missile exploded aboard an aircraft carrier, the USS Forrestal, in July of that year, killing 134 of his fellow crew members. In October, McCain was shot down over Vietnam by a surface-to-air missile.

U.S. Navy records make clear that no blame can be attached to McCain for either of these incidents. McCain was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross on his return from Vietnam and cited for his "superb airmanship" in the abortive raid on the power plant in Hanoi that ended with his capture and imprisonment by the North Vietnamese.

Mystery has surrounded the precise circumstances of the three earlier incidents, and particularly an accident on March 12, 1960, while McCain was still in flight school at Corpus Christi in Texas. The McCain campaign has either ignored or failed to respond to requests by The Washington Post and other news organizations for the release of the candidate's full military records, which could shed light on the accidents and the pilot's personal involvement.
Read the rest

John Sidney say it ain't true!

 

[Sonsie]

Hi Nonno, Forestool, nhboy, and bong

You might want to read this from the Wall Street Journal before posting crap.

The 'Fact Checking' Fad -- It's opinion journalism thinly disguised as straight reporting. But wait! Crap is your stock in trade isn't it?

 

[chernmax]

Hi Nonno, Forestool, nhboy, and bong

You might want to read this from the Wall Street Journal before posting crap.

The 'Fact Checking' Fad -- It's opinion journalism thinly disguised as straight reporting. But wait! Crap is your stock in trade isn't it?

Truely, ever wonder how a new guy can come on here and no one knows who he is and immediately start with attacks with the same horse#### posts as our friends above!!!

Bet all the IP's come from the same location...

 

[tommyjones]

The politics of revisiting the past...

WaPo FactChecker:
McCain fudges his Navy record
Controversy has surrounded a series of crashes involving planes piloted by John McCain while serving in the U.S. Navy. In his autobiography, the Republican presidential candidate maintained that a couple of the accidents were caused by engine failure. But an official investigation by the Naval Aviation Safety Center makes clear that the first accident, in March 1960, was caused exclusively by pilot error.

The Facts
During the course of his flying career with the U.S. Navy, John McCain was involved in at least five major mishaps or crashes involving his plane. The most dramatic incidents occurred in 1967. He barely escaped with his life after a missile exploded aboard an aircraft carrier, the USS Forrestal, in July of that year, killing 134 of his fellow crew members. In October, McCain was shot down over Vietnam by a surface-to-air missile.

U.S. Navy records make clear that no blame can be attached to McCain for either of these incidents. McCain was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross on his return from Vietnam and cited for his "superb airmanship" in the abortive raid on the power plant in Hanoi that ended with his capture and imprisonment by the North Vietnamese.

Mystery has surrounded the precise circumstances of the three earlier incidents, and particularly an accident on March 12, 1960, while McCain was still in flight school at Corpus Christi in Texas. The McCain campaign has either ignored or failed to respond to requests by The Washington Post and other news organizations for the release of the candidate's full military records, which could shed light on the accidents and the pilot's personal involvement.
Read the rest

John Sidney say it ain't true!

I guess the next big story on McCain is going to be that he lived with the north vietnamese during the war......


seriously though, if the big point to this story is that McCain might have been at fault for the crash of a palne while he was still in flight school, it is pretty pointless. actually even worse than the right attacking Obama on the "ayers connection", and that is saying somehting

 

[El_Kabong]

Typical conservative bluster... Attack the messenger... Avoid the message.

I noticed none of you refuted the information. The validity stands until you can do so.

 

[tommyjones]

Typical conservative bluster... Attack the messenger... Avoid the message.

I noticed none of you refuted the information. The validity stands until you can do so.

validity of what information? all you have provided is that Mccain was involved in 5 crashes in his career as a pilot. 2 of which you admit he had no responsibility for, and no additional information on the others except for your conjecture.

I refute the premise that a crash in training school is anything other than an expected (hopefully only occasional) incident.

 

[El_Kabong]

validity of what information? all you have provided is that Mccain was involved in 5 crashes in his career as a pilot. 2 of which you admit he had no responsibility for, and no additional information on the others except for your conjecture.

I refute the premise that a crash in training school is anything other than an expected (hopefully only occasional) incident.

I thought "pilot error" could be construed as poor judgement. I guess that only applies to Democrats in conservative eyes.

 

[tommyjones]

I thought "pilot error" could be construed as poor judgement. I guess that only applies to Democrats in conservative eyes.

you are talking about effing training, do you understand what that means?

And obviously the navy didn't consider it a problem or McCain would have been dropped from the program, not earn the flying cross or whatever.


like i said, just as retarded as the (r)'s bringing up ayers.

 

[Dymphna]

Guess we'd better not let him fly Air Force One.

 

[Lenny]

I guess the next big story on McCain is going to be that he lived with the north vietnamese during the war......

You mean staying in the Hilton Hotel in Hanoi doesn't mean he was palling around with Ho and the Soviets?

 

[Lenny]

I thought "pilot error" could be construed as poor judgement. I guess that only applies to Democrats in conservative eyes.

Being involved in aircraft accident investigations would help before you try to attempt to spin an uninformed impression by a civian reporter who never saw an aircraft accident, let alone investigate one.

Come, spend 3 years in flight school then learn how to interpret an AAI report before you make a futher ass of yourself.


Been there, done it, know of what I speak.

 

[El_Kabong]

you are talking about effing training, do you understand what that means?

And obviously the navy didn't consider it a problem or McCain would have been dropped from the program, not earn the flying cross or whatever.


like i said, just as retarded as the (r)'s bringing up ayers.

TJ,
I agree!
(But sometimes the elephant needs a good whack to get his attention.)

 

[tommyjones]

TJ,
I agree!
(But sometimes the elephant needs a good whack to get his attention.)

attacking with BS only makes your position look weaker.

 

[El_Kabong]

The facts, at this point, are unrefuted.
The article only points out that the Navy and McCain disagree on the one incident.
Any inferences taken from the article are those of the reader.

 

[tommyjones]

The facts, at this point, are unrefuted.
The article only points out that the Navy and McCain disagree on the one incident.
Any inferences taken from the article are those of the reader.

i see NO CONTRADICTIONS in mccains and the navy's position.

.....the Republican presidential candidate maintained that a couple of the accidents were caused by engine failure. But an official investigation by the Naval Aviation Safety Center makes clear that the first accident, in March 1960, was caused exclusively by pilot error.

if there were 5, two the navy says were not his fault, a couple (2) were caused by engine failure. that leaves 1 that could be pilot error.

unless you have a different definition of a "couple"

 

[El_Kabong]

I made no accusations... I only noted a possible link between "pilot error" and "judgement".

This article from Politico offers another perspective:

Pilot McCain was heroic, crash-prone

John McCain's heroism and courage as a Vietnam-era pilot has never been challenged, but his decision-making in the cockpit was questioned by his superiors, according to records obtained by the Los Angeles Times.

McCain, the son and grandson of Navy admirals, was considered to be a good flier, but Navy investigators cast doubt on his judgment during three mishaps in the 1960s.

Ralph Vartabedian and Richard Serrano write about one:


John McCain was training in his AD-6 Skyraider on an overcast Texas morning in 1960 when he slammed into Corpus Christi Bay and sheared the skin off his plane's wings.

McCain recounted the accident decades later in his autobiography. "The engine quit while I was practicing landings," he wrote. But an investigation board at the Naval Aviation Safety Center found no evidence of engine failure.
The 23-year-old junior lieutenant wasn't paying attention and erred in using "a power setting too low to maintain level flight in a turn," investigators concluded.

In a 1961 incident, McCain's was flying in Spain when his Skyraider jet hit a power line, sparking a local blackout. Four years later, he crashed a T-2 training jet in Virginia.

McCain's campaign didn't comment but friends described him as a skilled pilot who liked to push the envelope.
Source

(Please note that I usually provide a link to my sources. A practice few conservatives find necessary.)

 

[tommyjones]

you do realize you are talking aout an ACCIDENT that happend almost 50 years ago right?

i mean talk about irrelavent. If you want to make this an argument, you completely validate the other side question Obama about his ties to ayers.

BTW, a report of "no evidence of engine failure" does not mean that's not what happened. Many times pilot error is the catch all they use when no other caused can be proven. I have particapted in several military crash investigations.

 

[wintersprings]

Did he miss the plane John wrecked when those bombs went off on the Forestfire?

Or does War, not mean an thing to this guy.

 

[wintersprings]

He should ask another pilot from that time frame what the death rate for Pilots was. My dads flight class had 25 graduate and get their wings, but only 5 retired, the rest went 5 feet under. (Maby more for some of them)

 

[El_Kabong]

The Republican McCain/Palin campaign is trying to steer away from the issues that face America by focusing on character.

McCain's service in the military was been put in play by his campaign. Once in play, ALL aspect of McCain's military service are fair game. Yes, McCain is a hero but that doesn't mean he is without faults.