MILITARY SERVICE

[Christy]

Topper, personally, I feel that the military does the best job of getting folks spun up on a job than any other means known to man!  They've pretty much got it down (just so long as you keep the social experimentation out of the equation!)  I went from dimwit to fully capable within a matter of months.  Why?  8-10 hours every single day of intensive training in what my job would be.  Plus zero tolerence for screwing off, excuses, and general boo hooing!  They also tend to stick you in a position just slightly above what you are capable of, and it's sink or swim.  95% swim due to the training that was given in the background in regards to duty and responsibility.  I know it sounds really harsh, and like a real pain in the arse, but it really isn't.  It's quite empowering really.  You wind up doing things you never thought you could do.  I've seen plenty of losers join the military and come out sh!t hot afterwards (me for example! )  I think the money is well spent for military training.  Much better than government college scholarships, but that is simply my opinion.  I'm sure those who have been able to go to college due to government grants have their own experiences and stories.

I totally agree though that no one should be forced to join, however, back in the days of old .... my father was given the choice to join or face jail time and turned out better for it.  He no longer blasts the mayors cow full of buckshot!  

 

[BL]

KK,

I think it is a good idea.  It would teach a lot of kids discipline and respect.  They could still go to college after 2 years of military service.  I have seen it work overseas.  The kids that I talked to about it said it was a good thing.  I never really heard any negative comments about it from them.

 

[Ken King]

So it would be good not only for the kids, but for the services?  Don't think so, remember when you were in and those who didn't want to be in any longer made everyone's life hell.  Think of that on a grander scale.  

No one is arguing that it wouldn't be good for the kids as all of us who have served can attest, but the benefit to the services, other then a lot of bodies, isn't as clear to me.

 

[BL]

Ken,

You have a good point.  But it would only be for 2 years.  I think most kids would just play the game and actually learn something on the way.  They probably wouldn’t admit to it until they were out.  Which is ok.

 

[Ken King]

BL,

Two, four, or six years doesn't make a difference to me if they don't want to be there the problem will only get worse with time.   If we are a free country we shouldn't force anyone to serve unless there is a dire need.  If we do get to that point, conscription  (the draft) will be brought back and hopefully it will be gender blind.

 

[BL]

Ken,

Again, you have a valid point.  We will probably not agree on this issue.   I do believe there would be some problems with some individuals.  I think it would be a smaller percentage than most people think if it was routine to graduate high school then join the military for a mandatory 2 years.  

 

[Steve]

Actually, those that find themselves there for one reason or another, (amounts to bad choices these days for those that don't want to be there) they quickly discover that they must swim, or their peers will drown them! That is because it is still all volunteer.

If you pollute the military waters with non-vols, time alone will turn it into a post-Vietnam quagmire of disgruntled GI's hell bent on getting out any way they can!

No, volunteerism works best for the military; the sad part is that our culture has become so deterred from that route of self-betterment that, as an option for the average high school graduate, it is never considered nor recommended!

"Go to college! Educate yourself! Or I can get you a job down at the plant."

Those are the options faced by today's teens. And mainly, I think, because the 'military heros' are long gone and relegated to the History Channel.

I joined because a) it was something I wanted to do, and b) I was recently unemployed. It didn't take long for me to decide that it was now or never. And that was at 24! Now at 33, I still say it was the best decision I've probably ever made for my future.

Not only did I get training in a career field that provides me (and as Christy knows our family) stability in the future, I got to go places on this Earth I never would have seen otherwise.

It is definitely a "give and take" situation. Hence my belief that only volunteers should be held to any commitment.

 

[usn4now]

Hi Ken,
Fancy meeting you here. I am torn on this issue.
I agree with those who say that mandatory service goes against idea of "Life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness", although I think many of todays youth need to be taught respect, ethics, and the value of a dollar.

I think you really have to love what to do to be successful at it, and the military is no execption. Personally, I am really fed up with the military itself but I love the job it lets me do.

If you get a bunch of people together that can't stand their jobs or eachother, take them away from their "comfort zones" for about a year a time, and send them overseas you're just asking for trouble. Many people would get discharged for disciplinary problems, others would end up in the brig. So, it's a good idea to keep the military a volunteer force.

I agree 100% with the idea of the draft, with certain exemptions for parents, full time college students, ect.... If someone refuses military service in a time of need they ought to loose their citizenship. I understand the impracticality of that, but it really upsets me to see people in the media say that we have no business in the middle east defending the lifestyle that they so blatently take for granted.

-- "The controller formerly known as KC"

 

[Ken King]

USN4now,

Okay, my brother on the other side of the fence.  I understand how this can be divisive, but I see it as a bad idea to force someone to serve that doesn’t want to.  I was in when we would get those given the choice by the court to serve in the military or serve time in lock up.  For the most part they weren’t worth the effort.

I am glad we are in agreement about if we needed a draft we would look at the entire populace for the people to do the nation’s bidding and not just the young men of the nation. I would be ready, willing, and able to do it should I get the call (well able might be debatable because I am no longer the young man I was, but I believe I could still do it). As we know each other somewhat I think you are of such character that you too would answer the call if it was made.  

 

[Larry Gude]

Ken,

I voted "for" and changed my mind. Steve and you did the trick.

 

[Sharktooth]

No they shouldn't be forced to serve, Todays Volunteer force is very motivated and professional, We don't need a bunch of Morons that don't want to serve their country in the military if they don't want to.

 

[Warron]

I really don't think mandatory service would be a practicle idea in the US. Even if you ignor the effect of having so many people that don't want to be there, there are simply two many people to consider requiring military service of them all. Even if your only talking about the 18 to 22 year olds. It would cost too much to pay them and there would be nothing for them to do. I don't think many of you would consider your military experience to be so great if you spent the whole time walking around picking up garbage. Such duties are about the only jobs that these 2 year mandatory service people would end up doing, simply because there would be so many of them.

Personally, I didn't find the navy to be very rewarding. I gained almost nothing and lost six years of my life. First in the 12 - 16 hour days of the two year school I went to, then in the four year time warp called being out at sea. The ship I was on won the award for having the lowest retention rate of the atlantic fleet and like pretty much everyone else, I got out the first chance I got.

 

[sgtsprout]

well

I think it should be madatory. A mandatory enlistment of 2 years if you don't goto college. If your married, then one of the parents should be required to join. I think there should be exemtions out the wazoo. Thre a freaking plenty of damn kids in the miltary that Screw it up. So to say, kids that don't want to be in will hate it is wrong. They will resent it. But would come accustom to it. I feel if your in this country you have an obligation to defend it and honor it.

Not just live here. So what kids who are gang banging should what be killing each other. Put them Bast$%@#$ in the military. Let them shape up some. Will everyone shape Up? No not at all. We will always have kids that don't conform. But Guess what. Thats why there are 5 forms of discharges. Seldom do kids get screwed up on a dishonarable discharge. I seen kids do coke and acid get caught and end up with an administrative speration, for failure to conform...and end up with a genreal other then honarble.

So in closeing I think if you love this country then you ought to have to prove it and pay some damn dues in life. This is a problem with freaking people, they think they don't need to pay back anyone for anything.

Yes we pay about 30% taxes, but thats not enough.

 

[Warron]

Re: well

Originally posted by sgtsprout

Yes we pay about 30% taxes, but thats not enough.

Actually, I think the 30% taxes are way more then enough. I wouldn't necessarilly be against mandatory service, but I wouldn't support it if college enrollment was an excuse. Going to college is not a right. Its all or nothing as far as I'm concerned. Medical excuses would be the only excuse and they should have to find some other way to serve. But once again we come back to having way more people then the military would ever need in a peacetime situation. It would cost way to much to pay them, and they would have little to do.

 

[sgtsprout]

Okay maybe

30 percent is too much. And as a tax break, military servicemen who done at least say 2 years of service should get the "Military tax break" Some kind of tax break for those who served maybe. This should happen period !!lol

 

[Heretic]

Besides cannon fodder what the hell would some of what is comming out of our highschools be good for? Just from the workplace I say 50% of the people out there are useless, straight out of highschool I would put this number even higher. My grandfather told me during WW2 they took anyone they could but that was probably a mistake because there were many Officers and even Sergents shot in the back of the head because they had dirtbags commanding them that didn't want to take orders and used the opportunity get get even.

 

[Tom Roche]

Hmmmmmm

Students' understanding what lies ahead after high school might implant a little more effort into their schooling. They would have a goal, be more focused maybe. There are so many students who just drift through school and think they will have "time" to figure out what they want to do after school. This eliminates that worry.

Serving a two year term in the military would give them direction as well as offer career opportunities that they might not be otherwise exposed to, such as 'spending time at the mall'. This might also give direction to those students who enter college without a major in mind.

As for the military, why not offer full credits on taxes to inlisted men, draftees would not be eligible. After all, the pay is not all that great to begin with but a little incentive to join before being called to duty might make a difference in ones attitude about going to serve.