Military to allow women in combat

[MMDad]

I realize this is a very controversial statement I'm about to make but I hope the next step is to either require women to sign up for selective service or to do away with it altogether.

I wonder how much we've spent on selective service in the last 30 years?

We aren't likely to need it in the foreseeable future. Most of us who had to sign up 30 years ago are way too old anyway. Since they know how to do it, why not put the program to sleep until it is needed?

Once you sign up, the only thing they know is that you exist. I've moved at least a dozen times since then, so it isn't like they know where to find me from their list.

And even without the combat roles, if a draft were needed wouldn't the jobs that women have been allowed to do still need to be filled?

Treat them all alike. One selective service requirement or not. The same physical qualifications for all who do the same job regardless of age or gender.

 

[mAlice]

entire NON Combat Units were sidelined in the 1990's in the run up to Desert Storm, because women did not want to get deployed to combat zones over seas ...

.... so they chose to spread their legs like good little whores, get knocked up, so they could stay home ......


yes that was meant to be insulting ..... do not sign up for the JOB then cop out by getting pregnant .....


I think NO Women should be serving in front line units .... combat or not

but if you are going to allow this, there should be mandatory BC until the enlistment is over ..... you want kids, get out

I think I may have been a little more tactful, but basically, I agree.

 

[GURPS]

I think I may have been a little more tactful, but basically, I agree.

I agree ......... one of my biggest pet peeves, in the 1990's was all the lusers mewling how they only sighed up for the College Fund .......

the Press was really good at splashing these grumblers on the evening news ...

also the reverse ... Women getting deployed and men staying behind with the baby ....




2 things about Women and Combat - the Elitist Feminists - ya know all the mouth pieces married to money drowning on and on about how life is SO UN FAIR Women do not get to die in combat with MEN - they are not Mewling for Their Daughters to fight ...... no someone else's daughter to go die ....


unless there is mandatory Pregnancy Control - women will always get a cop out ....



Men are Wired to Protect Women, this will cause no end of trouble ..... it is Genetic

 

[Misfit]

Men are Wired to Protect Women, this will cause no end of trouble ..... it is Genetic

I think that’s what slotpuppy was talking about earlier.

http://forums.somd.com/chit-chat/263714-shower-poo-3.html#post5034053

 

[itsbob]

Great, so long as the military doesn't give in to the sure-to-come calls from the feminists to soften the requirements for women as compared to men.

That's not the way it works..

They'll insist the standards won't lessen.. then after about 18 months or so, they'll find the ONE or TWO major requrements that are making women fail.. They won't make special requirements for women, they'll just lessen those requrements for EVERYone.. Then, like the liberals always do, it will be one small step at a time.

12 mile hike with a 75 pound ruck? <1% female pass, let's make the ruck 50 pounds.. and the hike 10 miles.. 5% pass rate.. Drop the ruck to 35 pounds, and 8 miles.. 8% pass rate... Why do we need to prove infantryman can walk anywhere? Don't they have vehicles, and trucks, and Bradley's to carry them to the battlefield? No more forced march requirement.

Load Bearing/ Carrying Equipment is too heavy.. AMMO is HEAVY.. Currently they carry 6 30 round magazines with one in the weapon (for a squad rifleman), plus two canteens, wet weather gear.. grenades, first aid pouch.. Pro-mask..

Well, no infantryman NEEDS to carry 210 rounds.. All of their ammo can be carried on the same truck, or Bradley that is carrying them, and TWO canteens?? Who needs to drink that much.. Reduce weight by carrying 10 round magazines, and only carry one ammo pouch with 3 of them.. and only one canteen..

What's REALLY going to hurt the camraderie, and the espirit de corps of the infantry is it's been tradition to suffer through and EARN your Expert Infantryman's Badge... It's not easy, and not everyone earns it.. but they'll have to make it so women can earn it too, without special standards for them. First woman that wears the EIB with the new standards will be a slap in the face for everyone in the past that earned it.

Full Combat Load for an infantryman is about 100 pounds.. Clothes, Food, ammo, Helmet, and vest (to include sharing the load for the crew served weapons like the M60, SAW, and 80mm Mortar). If the women can only carry say 40 - 50 pounds, MAYBE 60.. who's going to have to pick up the extra weight they are leaving behind?

AND that's just the infanty.. What about the artilleryman that can't pick up a 155mm shell to load the howitzer? Ot a tank crewman that can't pick up the HE round to put in the breech? Or can't pick up a Ma Deuce to mount it on the turret? What are they going to do when they have an all female crew, or are they going to move people around and base assignments on sex so they don't have any all female crews??

Not saying ALL females can't do it, but there is going to be a HUGE washout rate until they drop the standards so they can play with the boys..

Didn't we just go through one of these experiments where NONE of the women made it through training, when 4 or 5 started?

 

[mAlice]

unless there is mandatory Pregnancy Control - women will always get a cop out ....

more than this. What's a woman supposed to do when she needs to deal with her feminine hygiene issue, dive behind a tree and remove 90 lbs+ of war gear? Good luck with that ####, especially in the desert.

I don't know about your other points, but I just can't see myself handling the feminine necessities while having a shoot out the desert palms social club.

 

[Rt235]

entire NON Combat Units were sidelined in the 1990's in the run up to Desert Storm, because women did not want to get deployed to combat zones over seas ...

.... so they chose to spread their legs like good little whores, get knocked up, so they could stay home ......


yes that was meant to be insulting ..... do not sign up for the JOB then cop out by getting pregnant .....


I think NO Women should be serving in front line units .... combat or not

but if you are going to allow this, there should be mandatory BC until the enlistment is over ..... you want kids, get out

Then the flip is true also, dont stick your dick if you want the girl to stay in.
Men should also use BC, just not the women! Besides, no promise you wont get "something" in return!


Let them serve until they prove they can't.
Besides women have been serving in combat roles since day #1 in the Revolution!

 

[Misfit]

Besides women have been serving in combat roles since day #1 in the Revolution!

and in that disney flick Mulan....


Mulan - i'll make a man out of you - YouTube

 

[itsbob]

A soldiers ruck sack weighs 65 pounds minimum and can weigh as much as 100 pounds.

If the wimmins can train and pass the requirements right along with the men, I say no problem.

P.S. The first two (both officers) have already flunked out.

That's just their ruck..

That doesn't include the weapon, the ammo, the material on their LBE/LCE.. FOOD... Water.. and Helmet and Vest.

I went to a mixed gender NCO course and saw it for myself when we did a forced road march for PT.. We reported with empty Rucks, and walked up to the lead NCO/Instructor that stood by three stacks of sandbags.. White were 10 pounds, Blue were 20, and red were full (at LEAST 30 pounds)

Female would walk up.. Take two white.. or.. Take one white one Blue..

I walked up.. take 3 red.. (and I'm POSTIVE it had nothing to do with my fooling around, and my smart mouth)..

I was sweating like I was walking in a rainstorm, totally soaked in sweat and they looked like they were on a lovely summer stroll.. (I was a recruiter at this point, so not the best shape of my life)..

 

[Baja28]

Then the flip is true also, dont stick your dick if you want the girl to stay in.
Men should also use BC, just not the women! Besides, no promise you wont get "something" in return!

Let them serve until they prove they can't.
Besides women have been serving in combat roles since day #1 in the Revolution!

This is a stupid post. You think that military women are only getting pregnant by military guys?

 

[MMM_donuts]

more than this. What's a woman supposed to do when she needs to deal with her feminine hygiene issue, dive behind a tree and remove 90 lbs+ of war gear? Good luck with that ####, especially in the desert.

I don't know about your other points, but I just can't see myself handling the feminine necessities while having a shoot out the desert palms social club.

Speaking from experience, many women that embrace the ability to be deployable choose long term birth control such as the implanon so they won't have to deal with the "feminine hygiene issue". No PMS, no periods, no trash.

 

[MMM_donuts]

Will there be women that try to be treated special and possibly screw this up for everyone? Yes.

Being an idiot isn't limited to one gender.

Will all women be able to be front line capable? No. Not even most. But there are some that can. Why shouldn't they be able to?

And please don't blame a screwed up policy of lowering standards made by distant higher ups solely on women.

 

[itsbob]

I agree ......... one of my biggest pet peeves, in the 1990's was all the lusers mewling how they only sighed up for the College Fund .......

the Press was really good at splashing these grumblers on the evening news ...

also the reverse ... Women getting deployed and men staying behind with the baby ....




2 things about Women and Combat - the Elitist Feminists - ya know all the mouth pieces married to money drowning on and on about how life is SO UN FAIR Women do not get to die in combat with MEN - they are not Mewling for Their Daughters to fight ...... no someone else's daughter to go die ....


unless there is mandatory Pregnancy Control - women will always get a cop out ....



Men are Wired to Protect Women, this will cause no end of trouble ..... it is Genetic

And during Desert Storm these were support units.. IMPORTANT roles, but if you took a woman out of a Public Affairs office and replaced not really a big deal..

An infantry squad, a tank crew, a howitzer battery spend MONTHS in the field evey year to hone their craft, and become true seamless crews.. to the point a driver knows what to do before the Tank/Track Commander tells him.. a loader knows how many bags to prep before he gets the fire mission.. A tank crew can engage another tank in <3 seconds, a howitzer crew can fire a fire mission in <30 seconds.. an infantry squad can survive an ambush, or reach an objective without a word said, EVERYONE knows their responsibilities, and their 'lane'...

Now take out ONE person from that same tank crew as they are getting on the plane or boat to take them to some ungodly place on earth.. That <3 seconds now becomes 10 - 20 seconds.. Fire mission now becomes 3 minutes instead of <30 seconew.. It takes a lot of practice to build a VERY good crew, and one missing team member makes a HUGE difference.

The flip side to this argument is a lot of National Guard and Reserve Units were found WHOLLY undeployable as their unit members didn't meet physical or weight standards.. They had to dismantle entire companies and battalions and 're-man' them to make one deployable unit out of several.. because both men and women were undeployable.. Talk about letting your team down..

 

[mAlice]

Speaking from experience, many women that embrace the ability to be deployable choose long term birth control such as the implanon so they won't have to deal with the "feminine hygiene issue". No PMS, no periods, no trash.

Do these meds come with guarantee's? I don't think so, because most women I know who use any of them indicate that they never work properly. Let's try, no period for 6 months, then one that lasts for 6 weeks.

 

[mAlice]

And please don't blame a screwed up policy of lowering standards made by distant higher ups solely on women.

I don't blame it women. I blame on the politicians trying to garner votes. Doesn't matter how it happens, just that it happens.

 

[itsbob]

How much physical skill do you need to operate a ground drone? Really need to look ahead and ask your self how the future military needs to function on a physical and functional model.

Also, there are bionic gear that is coming that will reduce the need to be as physical strong to say move a shell or turret.

In 1970 do you think that most people thought that you could hold a device that could give you pictures of different specific locations on this planet with clarity up to 5 meters. You could watch what was happening at your house in real time when you are 1000 miles away? In 1912 do you believe that people thought you would be able to get from DC to LA in a few hours? Send a man to the moon?

Remember, technology can be an equalizer when the enemy may have the physical edge on you - think David and the sling shot, the gun, the bomb, ....etc.

Purpose and functionality to achieve objectives is all that matters.

Yes, picture this for a second. Imagine walking at an average speed of 20 miles an hour, lifting 300lbs weights as if they weighed only 10 and being able to leap 20-30 feet in the air. Imagine having a bionic extension that shadowed your every move.

You might be thinking that this could only be achieved in comic books, or in glossy Hollywood blockbusters like Iron man or the 1959 epic Starship Troopers. Frighteningly however, robotics has come a long way thanks to the archetypal bunch of mad scientists and inventors, working away in their laboratories.

The reality of an army of indestructible soldiers wearing exoskeleton suits may come sooner than you think.
Read more at 5 Bionic Exoskeleton Suits of the Future

That's all fine and dandy, but infantryman are first and foremost trained to operate without special equipment. They are still trained to live in tents, walk to the battle, prepare for the battle and and walk back out, they even learn to read maps (like infantrymen ever REALLY knew how).. why??

Because batteries fail, equipment breaks.. How many batteries would a squad have to carry to operate all of the cool equipment? And to carry that GPS and all of it's batteries what else do you leave behind? How many does a squad carry? 1, 2 or one for EVERY person in case they get broken off from the pack and have to make it back on their own?

What you speak of are force multipliers, but you can't be dependent on them.. YOu must be able to perform the duties without, THEN you get the opportunity to be "enhanced"..

 

[MMM_donuts]

Do these meds come with guarantee's? I don't think so, because most women I know who use any of them indicate that they never work properly. Let's try, no period for 6 months, then one that lasts for 6 weeks.

I don't know what to tell you. I'm not going to try to convince you of anything or change our mind, I'm only going to tell you what we did and that it was extremely effective. And that I've literally never spoken with another woman that had the problem you described or experienced anything other than compete success.

 

[itsbob]

How much physical skill do you need to operate a ground drone? Really need to look ahead and ask your self how the future military needs to function on a physical and functional model.

Also, there are bionic gear that is coming that will reduce the need to be as physical strong to say move a shell or turret.

In 1970 do you think that most people thought that you could hold a device that could give you pictures of different specific locations on this planet with clarity up to 5 meters. You could watch what was happening at your house in real time when you are 1000 miles away? In 1912 do you believe that people thought you would be able to get from DC to LA in a few hours? Send a man to the moon?

Remember, technology can be an equalizer when the enemy may have the physical edge on you - think David and the sling shot, the gun, the bomb, ....etc.

Purpose and functionality to achieve objectives is all that matters.

Yes, picture this for a second. Imagine walking at an average speed of 20 miles an hour, lifting 300lbs weights as if they weighed only 10 and being able to leap 20-30 feet in the air. Imagine having a bionic extension that shadowed your every move.

You might be thinking that this could only be achieved in comic books, or in glossy Hollywood blockbusters like Iron man or the 1959 epic Starship Troopers. Frighteningly however, robotics has come a long way thanks to the archetypal bunch of mad scientists and inventors, working away in their laboratories.

The reality of an army of indestructible soldiers wearing exoskeleton suits may come sooner than you think.
Read more at 5 Bionic Exoskeleton Suits of the Future

And I've seen these, and the Army was thinking of using them in REAR areas like the guy loading boxes of artillery rounds on trucks.. Places where he could work for an hour or two, then go plug in. What are you going to do when you're 8 hours in on a 10 day mission, and you're batteries go dead? Stop and wait while it takes 72 hours for the solar cells to recharge your battery??

Mercy for the poor guy that has to carry the generator and the fuel..

 

[bcp]

If the want to be treated as equals, then treat them as equals.

If they cant go into combat, that means they have to take the prime duty stations, for every woman taking a prime station, that is some guy that might have been up for it, but instead has to go into combat.

 

[David]

Hoyer Statement

Hoyer Statement on Defense Department
Lifting Ban on Women in Combat

WASHINGTON, DC - House Democratic Whip Steny H. Hoyer (MD) released the following statement today after Defense Secretary Leon Panetta announced the military will be lifting its ban on women serving in combat roles:

“I’m pleased by Secretary Panetta's announcement, in conjunction with the Joint Chiefs' decision, that women will be allowed to serve in combat roles. This is a long awaited change in policy, and reflects the fact that women have courageously served in our armed forces for years. As I said when the discriminatory ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’ policy was repealed, our military is made stronger when it welcomes the service of all brave Americans willing to fight for their country. This is another step toward a fully inclusive military, and our nation will be better for it.”