Modern Day Spiritual Gifts

[Marie]

The link that I gave and its interpretation see it HERE does directly address the questions of your first post:

"Do these spirtual gifts exsist in modern times?
Casting out of Demons?
Healing by laying on hands?
Are there modern day Apostels?
The Gift of tounges than can be interrupted?"

Therefore the endtime "elect" would have all the above stated abilities, and everybody claims to be "elect".

This is what the thread is about and it is what is being claimed to be "talking about" here. :shrug:

James, there is no 'to be an elect" like you stated, there all ready is, this was done before the creation of the world and there are 5 differnt meanings for the word elect, the passage you chose, uses the word choosen meaning.

G4401
προχειροτονέω
procheirotoneō
prokh-i-rot-on-eh'-o
From G4253 and G5500; to elect in advance: - choose before.

G1586
ἐκλέγομαι
eklegomai
ek-leg'-om-ahee
Middle voice from G1537 and G3004 (in its primary sense); to select: - make choice, choose (out) c

Context context context!

You refuse to double check your own ideas so you have no accountabilty, and nothing to keep you inline.
Think about math 1+1 =2, but not in your word in your world its three one man one woman there has to be a child so it's 3 and you refuse to consult anything that could correct your irrational thinking.
Just like you reject the authority of God you reject the authority of scripture and you reject the authority of man. So you have no boundries or frame work for your thoughts. They are correct in your mind, soley because you say so the rest of the world dosent operate that way!

sen.

 

[JPC sr]

Deadbeat child support resister.

James, there is no 'to be an elect" like you stated, there all ready is, this was done before the creation of the world and there are 5 differnt meanings for the word elect, the passage you chose, uses the word choosen meaning.

G4401
προχειροτονέω
procheirotoneō
prokh-i-rot-on-eh'-o
From G4253 and G5500; to elect advance: - choose before.

G1586
]ἐκλέγομαι
eklegomai
ek-leg'-om-ahee
Middle voice from G1537 and G3004 (in its primary sense); to select: - make choice, choose (out) c
Context context context!

You refuse to double check your own ideas so you have no accountabilty, and nothing to keep you inline.
Think about math 1+1 =2, but not in your word in your world its three one man one woman there has to be a child so it's 3 and you refuse to consult anything that could correct your irrational thinking.
Just like you reject the authority of God you reject the authority of scripture and you reject the authority of man. So you have no boundries or frame work for your thoughts. They are correct in your mind, soley because you say so the rest of the world dosent operate that way!

Well I stand by everything that I posted as completely correct and true,

and everything "Marie" wrote above as completely worthless and meaningless babble.

She is saying she has the meaning of "elect" and we all can be certain that "Marie" includes herself and her kind as the "chosen elect before the world began - amen", and everybody else are doomed to the pits of her "Hell".

She puts out a question on this Forum, and even a poll on this thread, and fooled me as I thought she wanted discussion.

 

[Marie]

Well I stand by everything that I posted as completely correct and true,

and everything "Marie" wrote above as completely worthless and meaningless babble.

She is saying she has the meaning of "elect" and we all can be certain that "Marie" includes herself and her kind as the "chosen elect before the world began - amen", and everybody else are doomed to the pits of her "Hell".

She puts out a question on this Forum, and even a poll on this thread, and fooled me as I thought she wanted discussion.

I think I stated I wanted inteligent discussion! I wanted to hear what others thought and believed. Your refrence wasnt even related.
I am always interested in hearing what anyone has to say, even you, but put a little thought/effort it!

By the way those arent my definations they come from Strongs, that all most all scholars agreee with!

• The reason I come here is to see that the gospel gets put out for those who may be seeking.
• To provide the atheist something to consider.(Not argue with)
• To rebuke your false teachings, which I am about done with!
• I would also love to get into some serious discussion on various doctrines and the tennants of the Christian faith. That would be worth reading and expose folks to a deeper meaning of scripture.

You bait folks by manipulation to get attention and thus expose our weekness and cause us/me to sin. As I told you Thursday night I will walk away from the forum before I contine that pattern with you!

 

[wkndbeacher]

I think I stated I wanted inteligent discussion! I wanted to hear what others thought and believed. Your refrence wasnt even related.
I am always interested in hearing what anyone has to say, even you, but put a little thought/effort it!

By the way those arent my definations they come from Strongs, that all most all scholars agreee with!

• The reason I come here is to see that the gospel gets put out for those who may be seeking.
• To provide the atheist something to consider.(Not argue with)
• To rebuke your false teachings, which I am about done with!
• I would also love to get into some serious discussion on various doctrines and the tennants of the Christian faith. That would be worth reading and expose folks to a deeper meaning of scripture.

You bait folks by manipulation to get attention and thus expose our weekness and cause us/me to sin. As I told you Thursday night I will walk away from the forum before I contine that pattern with you!

As it says in the bible, you can not tempt God therefore JPC cant tempt us to sin and battle his wittless attempts of getting votes. If you re ever elected just make sure there's alot of money put to the side, for SOMD forum meetings at Outback.

 

[JPC sr]

Deadbeat child support resister.

I think I stated I wanted inteligent discussion! I wanted to hear what others thought and believed. Your refrence wasnt even related.
I am always interested in hearing what anyone has to say, even you, but put a little thought/effort it!

By the way those arent my definations they come from Strongs, that all most all scholars agreee with!

• The reason I come here is to see that the gospel gets put out for those who may be seeking.
• To provide the atheist something to consider.(Not argue with)
• To rebuke your false teachings, which I am about done with!
• I would also love to get into some serious discussion on various doctrines and the tennants of the Christian faith. That would be worth reading and expose folks to a deeper meaning of scripture.

You bait folks by manipulation to get attention and thus expose our weekness and cause us/me to sin. As I told you Thursday night I will walk away from the forum before I contine that pattern with you!

So "Marie" is only preaching down to the ignorant lost sheep,

because herself is already saved with a reservation in the Heavens.

The mistake was my own because I thought to view her and to speak to her as a mere mortal such as myself.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Your poll should have allowed for voting for more than one.

Paul was accepted by the disciples as being an apostle, so I guess the answer is yes especially in the modern definition. In the early Christian church, an Apostle was one of the disciples or Paul.

I firmly believe in all the gifts of the Holy Spirit, have some, and have experienced others.

I think it is funny that some people will believe in ghosts but not believe in God, satan, spirits, demons, and angels.

Jesus said that the last days would bring an outpouring of the gifts.

Mark 16:15-19

15And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.

16"He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

17"These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;

18they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."

19So then, when the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God.

Jesus said it. I believe it.

Read Joel. It is an eye opener. It is an Old Testament account of Revelation. It is Joel 2:28-32

Joel 2:28-32

28"It will come about after this
That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind;
And your sons and daughters will prophesy,
Your old men will dream dreams,
Your young men will see visions.
29"Even on the male and female servants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days.
The Day of the LORD
30"I will display wonders in the sky and on the earth,
Blood, fire and columns of smoke.
31"The sun will be turned into darkness
And the moon into blood
Before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes.
32"And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the LORD
Will be delivered;
For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
There will be those who escape,
As the LORD has said,
Even among the survivors whom the LORD calls.

that is quoted by Peter in Acts 2.

Acts 2:16-21

16but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel:
17'AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says,
'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND;
AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY,
AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS,
AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS;
18EVEN ON MY BONDSLAVES, BOTH MEN AND WOMEN,
I WILL IN THOSE DAYS POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT
And they shall prophesy.
19'AND I WILL GRANT WONDERS IN THE SKY ABOVE
AND SIGNS ON THE EARTH BELOW,
BLOOD, AND FIRE, AND VAPOR OF SMOKE.
20'THE SUN WILL BE TURNED INTO DARKNESS
AND THE MOON INTO BLOOD,
BEFORE THE GREAT AND GLORIOUS DAY OF THE LORD SHALL COME.
21'AND IT SHALL BE THAT EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.'

Revelation 6:12-17


12I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood;

13and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, as a fig tree casts its unripe figs when shaken by a great wind.

14The sky was split apart like a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15Then the kings of the earth and the great men and the commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains;

16and they said to the mountains and to the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb;

17for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"

Paul spoke of the gifts and how they are manifested and should be used. Christians will need them more and more as we become persecuted.

 

[godsbutterfly]

So "Marie" is only preaching down to the ignorant lost sheep,

because herself is already saved with a reservation in the Heavens.

The mistake was my own because I thought to view her and to speak to her as a mere mortal such as myself.

Blessedly, Marie is not like you. Why is it that if someone does not agree with you then you feel it gives you the right to be demeaning or insulting about them or to them? She is not "preaching down" to anyone. Jesus told us to go forth and spread the gospel to all the world and that's what she is doing. She is to be commended; not condemned.

 

[JPC sr]

Deadbeat child support resister.

I think it is funny that some people will believe in ghosts but not believe in God, satan, spirits, demons, and angels.

This quote above is a big significant point.

I have had ghost experiences enough to see there is an invisible spirit world.

To claim a disbelief in the Bible and God is easier then to deny the ghosts of this world.

People report ghost, spirit, demon, etc., experiences all the time and I believe every person everywhere has had some supernatural experience because it is so very widespread, and since there are invisible spirits and intelligent ghosts then there must be more - MUCH MORE.

Scientist claim they have no proof but then deny the spirits and ghosts as being the proof - not I.

 

[JPC sr]

Deadbeat child support resister.

Blessedly, Marie is not like you. Why is it that if someone does not agree with you then you feel it gives you the right to be demeaning or insulting about them or to them? She is not "preaching down" to anyone. Jesus told us to go forth and spread the gospel to all the world and that's what she is doing. She is to be commended; not condemned.

The point and my point was that she is "preaching down" and that is evident in her posts and that is why it irritates me, and that is why I post objections to her down preaching.

When she or anyone gets up on such a high-horse as she is doing then that dumping onto us is not acceptable to me.

I feel like I am the only one that stands up against the dumpings by the religious tyrants on this board.

 

[Marie]

The point and my point was that she is "preaching down" and that is evident in her posts and that is why it irritates me, and that is why I post objections to her down preaching.

When she or anyone gets up on such a high-horse as she is doing then that dumping onto us is not acceptable to me.

I feel like I am the only one that stands up against the dumpings by the religious tyrants on this board.

Who am I to be on a high horse? I understand my sin and deserve to go to hell more than anyone else I know. Its only by Gods GRACE I am spared. I dont understand why you would think that.
Would it be more apropiate to say, you resent me because I wont tolerate your false teaching therefore you feel disrespected?
Like many others here we all keep saying the same things. The gospel is offensive to those pershing, but why shoot the messenger because you dont like the message? It comes from Gods word not me. If you have a problem take it up with him.
Have I personally presented it in a way differntly than anyone else, that you singled me out in paticular?

I do have a question for you though that requires just a simple yes or No. Have you ever prayed and ask God to show you the true meaning of his word?
CYA Thursday

 

[libby]

Who am I to be on a high horse? I understand my sin and deserve to go to hell more than anyone else I know. Its only by Gods GRACE I am spared. I dont understand why you would think that.
Would it be more apropiate to say, you resent me because I wont tolerate your false teaching therefore you feel disrespected?
Like many others here we all keep saying the same things. The gospel is offensive to those pershing, but why shoot the messenger because you dont like the message? It comes from Gods word not me. If you have a problem take it up with him.
Have I personally presented it in a way differntly than anyone else, that you singled me out in paticular?

I do have a question for you though that requires just a simple yes or No. Have you ever prayed and ask God to show you the true meaning of his word?
CYA Thursday

Well, I do not agree with JPC's interpretation of Scripture, however he is right in some measure.
Marie, 2A, Italian Scallion and Starman all believe in personal interpretation of the Bible, the believe the Holy Spirit leads them to Truth. The problem with that arises when there are 2 different interpretations of the same Scriptures, neither one can claim to be right. Yet, the very doctrine they base their faith on compels them (or at least, it should) to accept what others think the HS is leading them to. In other words, in reality, they have no right to claim enlightenment by the HS, condemning JPC for his take on it, because JPC can say the HS led him, too.
Much of Scripture is confusing. The Hebrews don't believe the Scriptures point to Christ, yet Christians do. The Mormons don't believe in the Holy Trinity, yet traditional Christians do. JW's (hmmm....not sure what they believe), but it's different from other Christians. This goes on and on.
When someone claims they have the HS and "feel sorry" or "pray for" others who are not so blessed, it reeks of the Pharisee who prayed in the temple to thank God for not letting him be like other, sorrier (is that a word?) folk.
That said, we should pray for others, but perhaps in silence.

 

[Marie]

Well, I do not agree with JPC's interpretation of Scripture, however he is right in some measure.
Marie, 2A, Italian Scallion and Starman all believe in personal interpretation of the Bible, the believe the Holy Spirit leads them to Truth. The problem with that arises when there are 2 different interpretations of the same Scriptures, neither one can claim to be right. Yet, the very doctrine they base their faith on compels them (or at least, it should) to accept what others think the HS is leading them to. In other words, in reality, they have no right to claim enlightenment by the HS, condemning JPC for his take on it, because JPC can say the HS led him, too. .

Actually its kind of differnt, what we expouse, are the basic tennants of the Christian faith. The bare Min. of whats required to be a Christan, that all Christians believe in regarless of denomination.
So Mormons, JW's ETC.. are cults and not Christian in anyway shape or form.
JPC's false doctrine that everyone gets saved in the end Calls God a liar, and Perverts the doctrine of Grace. You may not know the doctrine by its name, but you have to believe it in order to be saved according to the Bible. You cant have the Holly Spirit if your not a Christian.

DOCTRINE OF GRACE
If anyone makes the assistance of grace depend on the humility or obedience of man and does not agree that it is a gift of grace itself that we are obedient and humble, he contradicts the Apostle who says, "What have you that you did not receive?" (1 Cor. 4:7), and, "But by the grace of God I am what I am" (1 Cor. 15:10). If anyone affirms that we can form any right opinion or make any right choice which relates to the salvation of eternal life, or that we can be saved by assent to the preaching of the gospel through our natural powers without the effectual work of the Holy Spirit, who makes all whom He calls gladly and willingly assent to and believe in the truth, he is led astray from the plain teaching of Scripture by exalting the natural ability of man, and does not understand the voice of God who says in the Gospel, "For apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15:5), and the word of the Apostle, "Not that we are competent of ourselves to claim anything as coming from us; our competence is from God" (2 Cor. 3:5).
Adapted from The Council of Orange (529 AD)

I will agree that doctrine can influence how we look at things.

Much of Scripture is confusing. The Hebrews don't believe the Scriptures point to Christ, yet Christians do. The Mormons don't believe in the Holy Trinity, yet traditional Christians do. JW's (hmmm....not sure what they believe), but it's different from other Christians. This goes on and on.
When someone claims they have the HS and "feel sorry" or "pray for" others who are not so blessed, it reeks of the Pharisee who prayed in the temple to thank God for not letting him be like other, sorrier (is that a word?) folk.
That said, we should pray for others, but perhaps in silence.

I just wanted JPC to know, that we do care about him, even though we are very hard on him. Its not out meaness or all about being right. Its that we care enough, not to want to see him go to Hell or take anyone else there with him if they believe him.

Personally I as dumb as a bag of hammers, and anything I read in scripture I go right to the experts to make sure I understand what its saying. Its not like I have a devine revelation whenever I read the Bible. I do get convicted of my own sin when I read it. I am not about to debate baptism by emersion or watercan. I know what I read/believe, but there are alot more important things to discuss. Its not escential Doctrine! Its not going to prevent someone from going to heaven.

So maybe Saying I am praying for someone did sound bad, and if it did I am sorry, but again I want JPC to know that even if he dosent care about where he spends eternity,(His Statements) some of us do, and we are praying for him that God will open his eyes to the truth.
If you love someone you will tell them the truth!

 

[Xaquin44]

Everyone is wrong but me!

I alone have deciphered the Mellinia old documents and the unfathomable inner workings of god himself to tell you that you are WRONG!


ahahahhaha

some 'christians' make me laugh.

edit: Marie, for someone who yammers on and on about their correct interpretation of the bible and etc. (calling other established religion cults and the like), you really should spell 'holy' correctly.

Holy.

Not Holly.

One is the spirit and one is a tree.

 

[tommyjones]

Actually its kind of differnt, what we expouse, are the basic tennants of the Christian faith. The bare Min. of whats required to be a Christan, that all Christians believe in regarless of denomination.
So Mormons, JW's ETC.. are cults and not Christian in anyway shape or form.
JPC's false doctrine that everyone gets saved in the end Calls God a liar, and Perverts the doctrine of Grace. You may not know the doctrine by its name, but you have to believe it in order to be saved according to the Bible. You cant have the Holly Spirit if your not a Christian.

So they are all cults unless they believe as you do?

dont you see how bigoted it is to make claims about someone elses spirituality?

As far as i know the mormons believe in the bare minimums you speak of, so why dont they count?

BTW, noone is calling god a liar, they are just disagreeing with your interpretation. Besides, they would be calling the writters of the bible liars not god, since god didn't write anything.

 

[libby]

Actually its kind of differnt, what we expouse, are the basic tennants of the Christian faith. The bare Min. of whats required to be a Christan, that all Christians believe in regarless of denomination.
So Mormons, JW's ETC.. are cults and not Christian in anyway shape or form.
JPC's false doctrine that everyone gets saved in the end Calls God a liar, and Perverts the doctrine of Grace. You may not know the doctrine by its name, but you have to believe it in order to be saved according to the Bible. You cant have the Holly Spirit if your not a Christian.

DOCTRINE OF GRACE
If anyone makes the assistance of grace depend on the humility or obedience of man and does not agree that it is a gift of grace itself that we are obedient and humble, he contradicts the Apostle who says, "What have you that you did not receive?" (1 Cor. 4:7), and, "But by the grace of God I am what I am" (1 Cor. 15:10). If anyone affirms that we can form any right opinion or make any right choice which relates to the salvation of eternal life, or that we can be saved by assent to the preaching of the gospel through our natural powers without the effectual work of the Holy Spirit, who makes all whom He calls gladly and willingly assent to and believe in the truth, he is led astray from the plain teaching of Scripture by exalting the natural ability of man, and does not understand the voice of God who says in the Gospel, "For apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15:5), and the word of the Apostle, "Not that we are competent of ourselves to claim anything as coming from us; our competence is from God" (2 Cor. 3:5).
Adapted from The Council of Orange (529 AD)

I will agree that doctrine can influence how we look at things.



I just wanted JPC to know, that we do care about him, even though we are very hard on him. Its not out meaness or all about being right. Its that we care enough, not to want to see him go to Hell or take anyone else there with him if they believe him.

Personally I as dumb as a bag of hammers, and anything I read in scripture I go right to the experts to make sure I understand what its saying. Its not like I have a devine revelation whenever I read the Bible. I do get convicted of my own sin when I read it. I am not about to debate baptism by emersion or watercan. I know what I read/believe, but there are alot more important things to discuss. Its not escential Doctrine! Its not going to prevent someone from going to heaven.

So maybe Saying I am praying for someone did sound bad, and if it did I am sorry, but again I want JPC to know that even if he dosent care about where he spends eternity,(His Statements) some of us do, and we are praying for him that God will open his eyes to the truth.
If you love someone you will tell them the truth!

But the point I am making is that the very same writings yield myriad interpretations, and the basic premise that you are working from, namely that the HS will guide you in reading Scripture, is the same premise that gives you no ground to stand on when discussing w/ JPC and others.
I believe that the idea that the HS guides the believe it is a false theology, which, I suppose, explains why I'm Catholic.

 

[JPC sr]

Deadbeat child support resister.

But the point I am making is that the very same writings yield myriad interpretations, and the basic premise that you are working from, namely that the HS will guide you in reading Scripture, is the same premise that gives you no ground to stand on when discussing w/ JPC and others.
I believe that the idea that the HS guides the believe it is a false theology, which, I suppose, explains why I'm Catholic.

I do believe you are mistaken about "Marie" because she is not NOT saying the HS (Holy Spirit) is guiding her or any of us in reading the scripture because if she were doing that then she would teach and preach her own personal beliefs and her own findings from the Bible.

My irritation with those like "Marie" (and Starman too) is that they do NOT give any personal revelations at all - none.

I am one that says God (through HS) is alive and still communicates with people now and today, but she is saying the Bible is it and no more.

"Marie" says things like: "Adapted from The Council of Orange (529 AD)" as if the HS spoke back in 529 AD and that is that.

I say that God specifically speaks to us and for us now in these latter days.