Moore's 9/11

[SmallTown]

Re: Has anyone seen the damn thing...

Originally posted by Larry Gude
...yet?

Moore himself says it is NOT a documentary.

Actually, I wish the little candy asses who rant on and on about how big of a lie the moore movie is would at least sit down and watch it so they can actually give examples.

Funny how some of you will spend countless hours at the DU, but won't see the movie. Hell, if you're worried about your money supporting the movie, get a small group together and I'll pay for us to go. At least you'll be able to say "Well, such and such part was so off it isn't funny" instead of "This guy on TV says the movie is really bad, moore is so anti-america"

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by SmallTown
Actually, I wish the little candy asses who rant on and on about how big of a lie the moore movie is would at least sit down and watch it so they can actually give examples.

Did you go see Gigli or any other movie that got terrible reviews? Me either. And if liberal op-ed guys are panning it, you know it must be bad. To a man, they say the movie is preaching to the choir, meaning the extreme liberal ABB folks.

The previews and snippets I've seen aren't so much lies as they are distortions and just general bias. Take, for example, that famous scene where Bush gives a statement on Iraq, then says "Now watch this drive." I saw that when he did it IRL and it came off as charming and light-hearted - NOT vapid or uncaring.

So there's no real reason for me to go watch Michael Moore's version of history - I already saw it without his editorial input.

 

[Ken King]

Re: Re: Has anyone seen the damn thing...

Originally posted by SmallTown
Hell, if you're worried about your money supporting the movie, get a small group together and I'll pay for us to go.

I'm in, you springing for the large drink and popcorn too?

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
Take, for example, that famous scene where Bush gives a statement on Iraq, then says "Now watch this drive." I saw that when he did it IRL and it came off as charming and light-hearted - NOT vapid or uncaring.

how was the IRL version different than the one in the film?

And no Ken, no popcorn and drinks. If you keep eating and drinking that stuff, then you'll start looking like Moore!

 

[Christy]

Originally posted by vraiblonde

The previews and snippets I've seen aren't so much lies as they are distortions and just general bias. Take, for example, that famous scene where Bush gives a statement on Iraq, then says "Now watch this drive." I saw that when he did it IRL and it came off as charming and light-hearted - NOT vapid or uncaring.

I believe I read somewhere, that snippet was actually from a statement pre-9/11, whereas it's presented as post-911. :shrug:

As far as Moore goes, I've seen pretty much all of his stuff, with the exception of "Bowling for Columbine" and this new one. He even had his very own show for a brief moment in time. It tanked.

I don't have to see yet another piece of crapola from him. :shrug:

If it makes you feel any better ST, I lump Moore and Limbaugh into the same category.

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by SmallTown
how was the IRL version different than the one in the film?

It's just the way it was presented. You can make anyone look like an idiot if you edit the clips the right way, which is why it's such an effective tactic.

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
It's just the way it was presented. You can make anyone look like an idiot if you edit the clips the right way, which is why it's such an effective tactic.

It would be interesting to see the IRL version then. When I saw the clip, I didn't see any nifty editing there. Is Moore that good?

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by SmallTown
Is Moore that good?

Of course not. You see what happened. I guess it's the context of it. When you're bashing Bush you can play this clip to show an out-of-touch President who's more concerned with his golf game than the war. But if you present it in a pro-Bush light, you see a President who is balanced and is able to relax, de-stress and clear his mind - work is work and play is play, completely separate.

Another good example is the footage of when Andy Card told the President about the WTC attacks. In an anti-Bush context, he looks like "big deal" and goes back to reading. In a pro-Bush context, he looks like a calm, rational leader who doesn't want to alarm the kids by jumping up and running out of the room.

Moore also apparently shows Iraq as some utopia, with little children flying kites and people living in peace and harmony - before that evil George Bush started bombing them. We all know that's not how pre-war Iraq was but it wouldn't suit his agenda if Moore would interview people who were maimed or people who had their wives and daughters rounded up and headed for the rape rooms.

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
But if you present it in a pro-Bush light, you see a President who is balanced and is able to relax, de-stress and clear his mind - work is work and play is play, completely separate.

Nah, I think he is just a tool either way

But really. The pro-bush crowd has simply become numb to Bush's antics. They had to. They so desperately want to believe in the man they put in office, that they are willing to look past the obvious short comings of the man. They even have some of his Bushisms in the film, should be interesting.

This is in the movie. I'm sure it was edited to make it sound this way

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/multimedia/foolbush.mov

 

[vraiblonde]

ST, I hope you go see it and give us your opinion. I'd like rraley to see it, too, and let us know what he thought.

 

[hamsterfang]

The theatres have labeled it as a documentary.

I will be honest with everyone here and say that I had just had the opportunity to see the movie with a friend (who's a Libertarian, a rare find in So. MD) last night. While there were certain parts that I thought were unnecessary that made fun of Bush simply for the sake of it, there was also a good deal of statistics and facts presented. What we had in the movie is what has been said in books for quite awhile. The problem is that people either lack the time or patience to read a book (which would contain the same amount of political satire and "disrespect" as the film) and would much rather view a movie that runs for a couple of hours. I believe that this movie will have a big affect on the future of film, and we will see more and more political films in the next couple of years put together by both liberals and conservatives. It’s a breakthrough that can be compared to the televised debate of Nixon and Kennedy. One of the first debates televised, it had a major affect on voting Americans to see a confident Kennedy and Nixon looking a bit sheepish and sickly. Kennedy won the election that year.

You also have to realize that of COURSE this movie is going to get much more horrible reviews than your average movie because it’s political. Those that disagree with it or dislike it will of course label it as terrible and unpatriotic-just as the anti-war demonstrators were labeled! I saw it 1) because I was interested and 2) as I was typing on this forum I thought, "If I haven't seen the movie myself, what right do I have to talk?"

So, I've seen it. It was good, although I believe that some of the areas Moore covered weren't covered enough.

Still......

It wasn't unpatriotic. For all of those calling it disrespectful, I suggest you at least see it. It's just a silly as complaining about the President if you refuse to vote. There was less “childish name-calling" than I expected, as well, and if you get offended you can always write your own review

 

[Larry Gude]

Now there's the spin of the day...

The pro-bush crowd has simply become numb to Bush's antics. They had to. They so desperately want to believe in the man they put in office, that they are willing to look past the obvious short comings of the man.

:

For over three effing years 'pro Bush' people have been wading through endless diatribes about stolen elections, massive conspiracies, evil oil empires, tax cuts for the rich, rushing to war and the dumbest SOB who ever got past a spanking on his ass the day he was born. There's been no room or oxygen for real concerns.

So now Moore has let the cat out of the bag: Yes world, this IS how stupid the left is. This IS how emotional and irrational the left is. This IS how far the left will go to live a lie."

Now, it's there for everyone to see. 20 minute standing ovations from the hoi polloi and just about every single liberal commentator stuck, groaning in embarrassment and even DENOUNCING his work and it's now the Bush apologist fault.

That's rich. You'd never make it as one of our kids. You'd spend all of your time in the corner trying to figure it out.

I am ALL FOR us going to see 9/11 en masse. Count me in.

How long before you claim 'it's the same thing y'all did to poor Bill Clinton!"

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by SmallTown
The pro-bush crowd has simply become numb to Bush's antics.

No, it's just that some us don't need our President to be a polished public speaker and slick political animal. The movie clip you posted - I don't think any less of Bush for his "fool me...or somebody...sometime....and...uh..." I thought it was amusing and not worthy of all the snide remarks from the Left.

And that's the thing - when Democrats make hay out of something so silly, they lose credibility and make people like me completely turn a deaf ear to ANYTHING they have to say.

I haven't become numb to Bush's antics - I've become numb to the Democrats' antics.

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
The movie clip you posted - I don't think any less of Bush for his "fool me...or somebody...sometime....and...uh..." I thought it was amusing and not worthy of all the snide remarks from the Left.

Obvious example of conservatives becoming numb. Sad really.

 

[Ken King]

Re: Now there's the spin of the day...

Originally posted by Larry Gude
I am ALL FOR us going to see 9/11 en masse. Count me in.

Fess up, your wanting to go because I'm going. Think you'll get a free movie and maybe a trip by a lake.

 

[rraley]

I have seen some reference to the movie getting terrible reviews. While I am sure that some have given it some bad reviews, Ebert and Roper, two of the most respected film critics, gave the film two thumbs up.

I have a review in the politics section...read it if you like. I suggest seeing it sometime.

 

[hamsterfang]

Oh, one thing I left out was how Moore didn't show enough of how the democrats sat on their asses and often voted to pass bills that they didn't agree with because they were too scared of being labeled unpatriotic and losing voter popularity. He showed Daschele, but that was about it Then came Howard Dean, who spoke out in quite an angry way about what was going on in America, and this seemed to cause all those that were silenced by fear to begin to speak out.

 

[SamSpade]

Originally posted by rraley
I have seen some reference to the movie getting terrible reviews. While I am sure that some have given it some bad reviews, Ebert and Roper, two of the most respected film critics, gave the film two thumbs up.

Roger Ebert is about as liberal as they come, and Roper a fairly close second. I'm surprised they didn't pick it apart as a *film*, because there are editing stunts and leaps of logic that even LIBERAL commentators have commented on.

To repeat Cohen's take on the film, here's part of what he said -

"Speaking just for myself, not only was I dismayed by how prosaic and boring the movie was -- nothing new and utterly predictable -- but I recoiled from Moore's methodology, if it can be called that. For a time, I hated his approach more than I opposed the cartoonishly portrayed Bush.

The case against Bush is too hard and too serious to turn into some sort of joke, as Moore has done. The danger of that is twofold: It can send fence-sitters moving, either out of revulsion or sympathy, the other way, and it leads to an easy and facile dismissal of arguments critical of Bush. During the Vietnam War, it seemed to me that some people supported Richard Nixon not because they thought he was right but because they loathed the war protesters. Beware history repeating itself.

Moore's depiction of why Bush went to war is so silly and so incomprehensible that it is easily dismissed. As far as I can tell, it is a farrago of conspiracy theories. But nothing is said about multiple U.N. resolutions violated by Iraq or the depredations of Saddam Hussein. In fact, prewar Iraq is depicted as some sort of Arab folk festival -- lots of happy, smiling, indigenous people. Was there no footage of a Kurdish village that had been gassed? This is obscenity by omission.

The case against Bush need not and should not rest on guilt by association or half-baked conspiracy theories, which collapse at the first double take but reinforce the fervor of those already convinced."

 

[Hessian]

We're in trouble folks....

Here is a a pack of glowing endorsements for Moore:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39355

So it the communists, Moaists, Socialists...etc are all standing in loud support of the "Documentary"...I suppose it must be good.
I mean, they know what is best for America right?

 

[BuddyLee]

I saw the flick last night on Showtime. It was half-decent but it had it's M.M. cheesiness as well. It's good to look at at least once, but I'd also look at FarenHYPE 9/11 as well. That will be my next rental since Showtime doesn't offer that.