More on the economy

itsbob

I bowl overhand
You mean other then low single digit unemployment, low single digit inflation..

I don't understand how both male and female wages went down, but household income went up?

If it was a democrat in office this same reporter would be shouting how great a job the president is doing. "LOOK at these (other) numbers and it shows you how great a job he's doing."

But since it's Bush, he has to go dig up some BS statistics that show how rotten we have it.. I don't know about everyone else in here, but I'm doing the best I've ever done in my life.

Yep, no good news there.
 

Chain729

CageKicker Extraordinaire
The economy isn't that bad. We had a market correction in a few sectors, a few sectors are in chaos, but then others are the strongest they've been in a long time. How's that different than any other normal economic decade?

What gets me is, why do so many people think the president dictates the economy and is soley responsible for its health? Do so many people really have such little understanding of how the economy works? Have so many people been that brain-washed by the politicians and media? I don't get it. :confused:
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
Chain729 said:
What gets me is, why do so many people think the president dictates the economy and is soley responsible for its health? Do so many people really have such little understanding of how the economy works? Have so many people been that brain-washed by the politicians and media? I don't get it. :confused:

Basically - yes. It's the same kind of thinking that declares pharoahs as gods, and lightning as 'magic'. When you don't understand something, make something up and declare it the truth.

No really. It IS the same kind of thinking. The same kind of thinking that invents spirits and magic and voodoo. The kind of thinking that says the President can call up his oil buddies and say "Make the international price of oil go under 60 dollars so my guys can stay in the House" and lo, it is done. The same kind of thinking that says he can order the destruction of the WTC, have thousands of people in on the secret, have not a single person squeal or reveal a shred of evidence and still be dumb as a post throughout it all. Or can believe a "missile" hit the Pentagon, the airplane vanished into thin air along with all its passengers, despite hundreds of eyewitnesses, plane shrapnel and the total lunacy of the idea.

What REALLY gets me is this same group of people sneer at the idea of a God or prayer or an afterlife or a soul - because they're above that kind of primitive thinking.
 
Chain729 said:
The economy isn't that bad. We had a market correction in a few sectors, a few sectors are in chaos, but then others are the strongest they've been in a long time. How's that different than any other normal economic decade?

What gets me is, why do so many people think the president dictates the economy and is soley responsible for its health? Do so many people really have such little understanding of how the economy works? Have so many people been that brain-washed by the politicians and media? I don't get it. :confused:
Probably because they try to take credit for it when it's going well?
The article didn't lay any blame, just pointed out a few "facts".
 

Vince

......
desertrat said:
The article didn't lay any blame, just pointed out a few "facts".
:yeahthat: And they are correct about tuition costs. I'm paying out my azz for the daughters college costs. :banghead:
 

itsbob

I bowl overhand
Vince said:
:yeahthat: And they are correct about tuition costs. I'm paying out my azz for the daughters college costs. :banghead:
but colleges and universities are money making entities.. they charge as much as possible and still have people wanting to go there. As long as people pay the price, they'll keep charging it.

Just like a car, you REALLY think it takes 20K to build a car? No, but they want to maximize their profit, charge as much as they can as long as people still buy them. Chevrolet could probably cut their consumer prices by 50% and still make a profit, but it wouldn't be a big enough profit to keep everyone happy.

It also doesn't cost 40K per student per year to get an education, but that's what they'll charge as long as they can keep the seats filled.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
itsbob said:
It also doesn't cost 40K per student per year to get an education, but that's what they'll charge as long as they can keep the seats filled.

Some day someone will come up with a way to sufficient educate people for very specific jobs - because let's face it, people get degrees nowadays to get a good job and the education is just a consequence of it all.

Imagine if you could just train to be a network engineer or programmer - dispense with all the humanities electives that you will never use and your employer never cares that you've taken - get your certificate inexpensively and then go work for someone - you won't NEED a bachelor's.

Only a quarter of our workforce even has a bachelor's degree - and they do just fine.

Time for an alternative to college.
 

Pete

Repete
itsbob said:
but colleges and universities are money making entities.. they charge as much as possible and still have people wanting to go there. As long as people pay the price, they'll keep charging it.

Just like a car, you REALLY think it takes 20K to build a car? No, but they want to maximize their profit, charge as much as they can as long as people still buy them. Chevrolet could probably cut their consumer prices by 50% and still make a profit, but it wouldn't be a big enough profit to keep everyone happy.

It also doesn't cost 40K per student per year to get an education, but that's what they'll charge as long as they can keep the seats filled.
In principal this is correct but when GM has to pay some goober $39 per hour to drive a fork lift because of union brokered wages, and the company that supplies starters has to pay $32 an hour to screw on the nuts over the solenoid studs it makes the cost of an automobile significantly over 50% the MSRP.

Same with colleges. Buildings cost money. Heating and cooling buildings cost money. Professors cost money. The guy weed wacking the hacky sack park costs money. The campus police cost money. The cars the campus police drive cost money. If anyone who is employed or contracted to the University gets a raise it is passed on to you.
 

punjabigyrl

Active Member
Send your kids overseas to study. Cost of a 4 year university in china with room and board, tuition and books.... US $30,000 thats getting your medical degree. Come back to the states take your test do you rotations and presto. In australia the total tuition is US $20-30,000. I have my options open wide.
 

Pete

Repete
Pete said:
In principal this is correct but when GM has to pay some goober $39 per hour to drive a fork lift because of union brokered wages, and the company that supplies starters has to pay $32 an hour to screw on the nuts over the solenoid studs it makes the cost of an automobile significantly over 50% the MSRP.

Same with colleges. Buildings cost money. Heating and cooling buildings cost money. Professors cost money. The guy weed wacking the hacky sack park costs money. The campus police cost money. The cars the campus police drive cost money. If anyone who is employed or contracted to the University gets a raise it is passed on to you.
It is worth noting that in all of the "costs" listed above you do receive something. Climate control, security, weed free hacky sack park, but the HUGE costs defending against lawsuits gets you nothing.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
Pete said:
In principal this is correct but when GM has to pay some goober $39 per hour to drive a fork lift because of union brokered wages, and the company that supplies starters has to pay $32 an hour to screw on the nuts over the solenoid studs it makes the cost of an automobile significantly over 50% the MSRP.

Same with colleges. Buildings cost money. Heating and cooling buildings cost money. Professors cost money. The guy weed wacking the hacky sack park costs money. The campus police cost money. The cars the campus police drive cost money. If anyone who is employed or contracted to the University gets a raise it is passed on to you.

This is right on, but of course, there's more to it, and it's capitalism - the way it's SUPPOSED to be.

I could sell tomatoes from my garden for a penny apiece - because for one thing, they're fertilizer if I don't, and not counting the labor and the small investment - they didn't 'cost' me anything.

But the guy up the street is selling his for a dime apiece. I can still undersell him if I go three for a quarter. If I went to a quarter apiece, I've got no chance, unless I can convince buyers that my Lemon Boys and Beefsteaks are *better* than his Romas.

And this is also simple economics - the best way to run the business is to find the optimal cost - the cost that will bring the most revenue according to the demand. You might be able to sell a few tomatoes for a quarter apiece, but if you still have tomato inventory a week later, you're out of luck, unless you're also selling tomato JUICE. There's an optimal point.

Schools are finding this too. Yeah, you do pay everyone an impressive salary - but get real. Professors aren't known for being the richest guys on the planet, although if they primarily teach, they also aren't known for long hours of teaching, either. When I assisted research in college, the post-docs got paid pennies to further their research, and the school made the profits. So there's money to be made.

Everyone's touched on this - demand drives the optimal price. If demand dries up, there'll be a new optimal price. There's no intelligent reason for a college to charge chump change for a degree when the demand remains the same for a higher price. The reason a degree costs $$$$$ is because other degrees cost $$$$$. If they suddenly lose demand, and start costing $$ then others will follow. It's basic capitalism to maximize profit, and there ain't nothing wrong with that.

I do think however, that a smart entrepreneur should be able to market something in between for less cost. For example, when I took classes to learn about Microsoft Networks, there were guys trying to get certified without a degree. For a fraction of the cost of a degree and a LOT less time - they were securing a good paying job. Why can't someone start out somewhere in high school and get certified in a career of their choice without having to undergo some school's idea of a "rounded" education? Seriously. If you've been an engineer or computer scientist for 10-20 years, does anybody seriously think the art appreciation class or the medieval history class you took in college is of ANY value now? You got the degree to get the job. Wouldn't it have been better to just learn the crap you needed, and stop wasting four years in school?

(Damn. I'm beginning to sound like an advocate for Father Guido Sarducci's Five Minute College).
 
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