Muslim nations seek to curb Free Speech in U.S.

[Starman3000m]

...Can we afford to just dismiss this rhetoric as coming from a bunch of nuts? What Khrushchev predicted is here, now; because we didn’t pay attention and allowed our children to be brainwashed into believing socialism is what we need. Now, with the movement to remove any mention of God (Yahweh), Jesus, Christmas, etc… in our public places, there is an almost equal and opposite movement to push Sharia on us in our courts:

Here's one regarding Boston University:

Friends,

News report about bathrooms specially equipped for Muslim students so they can pray with spiritual purity.
Maybe we should petition BU for them to install a mikveh (Jewish ritual bath) just out of fairness and political correctness.
Shoebat.com - Boston University Submits to Islam

posted by Keith Davies

 

[McGinn77]

Federal Appeals Court Considers Sharia Law - ABC News

The fact that a court would even hear a case like this is telling.

People bring about stupid suits all the time, the lower court HAS to hear them and unless they can provide certain evidence higher courts have to hear appeals. The important thing is it didn't happen.

Catholic Institutions being sued to remove Catholic symbols so as not to offend Muslim worshippers:

Catholic University is sued over Muslim students’ rights - The Washington Post

That is not at all what this article is about, there are recognized Christian and Jewish groups on campus, this was an effort to get a Muslim group officially recognized.

The latest complaint, filed a few weeks ago with the D.C. Office of Human Rights, focuses on the school’s policy of not giving official status to non-Catholic worship groups. While the school has an official group for Jewish law students, a Muslim undergraduate profiled in a Washington Post article last year said he was told that he could not create a group dedicated to Muslim worship.

And some of our public schools, with ACLU backing, being okay with Muslim prayer while saying Christian prayer is unconstitutional.

ACLU Okay with Prayer in Public Schools (Muslim prayer that is) – Patriot Update

As an Atheist I'm fine with this provided the following

• It does not disrupt class time
• It is not officially lead by a member of the facualty
• it is done in a seperate room
• children of all faiths are given the same consideration (i.e. if christian students want to do a lunch time prayer circle, go to an empty room an do it)

I'll say again, the issue isn't PEOPLE having faith, the issue is the government and any part of it (including public schools) can't have a faith. However, kids going to an empty room by their own choosing and praying before lunch or whatever, no problems with that.

 

[foodcritic]

As an Atheist I'm fine with this provided the following

• It does not disrupt class time
• It is not officially lead by a member of the facualty
• it is done in a seperate room
• children of all faiths are given the same consideration (i.e. if christian students want to do a lunch time prayer circle, go to an empty room an do it)

I'll say again, the issue isn't PEOPLE having faith, the issue is the government and any part of it (including public schools) can't have a faith. However, kids going to an empty room by their own choosing and praying before lunch or whatever, no problems with that.

How did we survive for the first 150 years of our republic being educated on the New England Primer?

The New England Primer, 1777 edition

The book that educated our founders.....Those rascals who never wanted a religious influence in the skools!

 

[McGinn77]

How did we survive for the first 150 years of our republic being educated on the New England Primer?

The New England Primer, 1777 edition

The book that educated our founders.....Those rascals who never wanted a religious influence in the skools!

And which schools was that used? No reference to that in your link. How do you know it wasn't in a private christian school? That seems by far the most likely since public school as we know it didn't really go into effect until the 1840's. (Source)

Also the founding fathers got EVERYTHING right? then why the 13th, 14th, 15th and 19th ammendment?

 

[dontknowwhy]

All I say is, if I pay for it (taxes) it shouldn't include references to god, any god at all..

And I say, if I also have to pay for it, who the hell are you to tell me my views can't be expressed in the very same arena I also pay for?...I'm paying for YOUR whiney little azz to get YOUR way!!!...

 

[Merlin99]

And I say, if I also have to pay for it, who the hell are you to tell me my views can't be expressed in the very same arena I also pay for?...I'm paying for YOUR whiney little azz to get YOUR way!!!...

He's not the telling you that, the US Constitution, a lot of district courts, several appellate courts and a US supreme court on the other hand, are.

 

[ItalianScallion]

I've read it the last 4 or 5 times you've posted it, I'm sorry it just doesn't scare me. You seem ready to jump out of your skin every time Muslims are mentioned, personally I don't see much to be worried by.

This is exactly what they want. They work little by little so as to not make ignorant Americans feel threatened by them. Slowly but surely they will infiltrate our government & schools; the very places that many of you allowed God to be kicked out of. With more kids growing up with the mindset of the "occupiers", muslims will easily take over this country and people like Hillary are greatly helping their efforts...

The Bible warned us about this in advance so we can be ready to stop it but who listens to it, right??

 

[PsyOps]

I'll say again, the issue isn't PEOPLE having faith, the issue is the government and any part of it (including public schools) can't have a faith. However, kids going to an empty room by their own choosing and praying before lunch or whatever, no problems with that.

You seem to only have a one-sided view of the 1st Amendment. Can you show me where in the 1st it limits the free practice of religion? This would include in schools, in courts, in any government buildings, etc... Allowing someone to practice their religion in a government building does not equate to establishing a religion; and especially establishing religion.

Look, the constitution was never intended to be something that made everyone feel comfortable with what people chose to do with their freedoms. It assumes we all have thick enough skins, and brains smart enough to filter out what you don't want in, and not have to rely on a deliberating body to do it for you. The one thing it DOES is guarantee certain liberties are not to be touched by congress.

But, my point in all of this is, as citizens be aware of what's happening and decide if that's the road we want to go. We have allowed socialism to slowly creep into our system; and with every piece of socialism instituted a peice of our liberties is cast aside. Are we ready to allow Sharia become a part of our legal system?

 

[McGinn77]

And I say, if I also have to pay for it, who the hell are you to tell me my views can't be expressed in the very same arena I also pay for?...I'm paying for YOUR whiney little azz to get YOUR way!!!...

So we teach Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, Wicca, ect.

I never said teach atheism, I said teach nothing. If you teach one, you have to teach them all.

Way to hide behind the internet. Love how guys who can't make a decent argument say stuff like "[whiny] (if you're going to use a word learn to spell it) little azz" when they have the benefit of the internet to hide behind but would hide in a corner in the real world. Very christian of you buddy.

 

[McGinn77]

You seem to only have a one-sided view of the 1st Amendment. Can you show me where in the 1st it limits the free practice of religion? This would include in schools, in courts, in any government buildings, etc... Allowing someone to practice their religion in a government building does not equate to establishing a religion; and especially establishing religion.

One sided view? I said let kids pray to what ever god they wanted in private in school as long as it's not lead by faculty. I said stand on the street corner and say what ever you want. But official state sanctioned education or monuments to a specific religion use tax dollars to teach a religion.

It assumes we all have thick enough skins, and brains smart enough to filter out what you don't want in, and not have to rely on a deliberating body to do it for you.

Kids don't, they are impressionable. That is the very reason no religion should be taught in school because as a parent you should have the right to teach your kid about what ever god you want in what ever way you want. Since there is no consensus, never has been a consensus and never will be a consensus and you can't teach them all, you don't teach any at all. Let parents do that.

C'mon people, our schools aren't even teaching our kids to read, write and do math properly and you want to trust them with your kid's faith?

Are we ready to allow Sharia become a part of our legal system?

No, absolutely not, but the difference is, I don't want ANY part of religion to enter our law books other than to say what it already does "the government is secular and has no religion" (summary of course).

 

[PsyOps]

One sided view? I said let kids pray to what ever god they wanted in private in school as long as it's not lead by faculty. I said stand on the street corner and say what ever you want. But official state sanctioned education or monuments to a specific religion use tax dollars to teach a religion.

You’ve placed a limitation on it. It must be in private; in an empty room. Having someone from faculty lead the prayer is NOT establishing a religion or establishing religion. So you’ve placed another limitation on it. There is nothing in the 1st that says religion can’t be taught, even at the tax payer’s expense. Another limitation. This is what you folks do; you place religion in a nice neat little box because YOU are uncomfortable with certain practices. The constitution was not written to make everyone feel comfortable; and does not guarantee someone wont be offended. The only thing the 1st guarantees is we can FREELY practice our religion and congress wont establish an official religion.

Kids don't, they are impressionable. That is the very reason no religion should be taught in school because as a parent you should have the right to teach your kid about what ever god you want in what ever way you want. Since there is no consensus, never has been a consensus and never will be a consensus and you can't teach them all, you don't teach any at all. Let parents do that.

C'mon people, our schools aren't even teaching our kids to read, write and do math properly and you want to trust them with your kid's faith?

How worried are you that some of the science being taught to our impressionable kids is false? How worried are you that some of the history being taught is choc-full-o-propaganda intended to indoctrinate kids with leftist nonsense? How worried are you that sex ed is doing more to encourage kids to have sex rather than prevent it? We turn a blind eye to everything except religion. We can hand our kids over to perfect strangers to teach them how to have sex without batting an eye; but teach them about peace, love, and eternal life…… THIS MUST BE STOPPED!

No, absolutely not, but the difference is, I don't want ANY part of religion to enter our law books other than to say what it already does "the government is secular and has no religion" (summary of course).

Our government is not secular. It’s agnostic. Through our founders’ documents you see countless references to religion and how it influenced their thinking. Starman's thread pointed out many states references specific to Christianity. But when it came to the constitution they were careful not to specify which.

 

[McGinn77]

You’ve placed a limitation on it. It must be in private; in an empty room. Having someone from faculty lead the prayer is NOT establishing a religion or establishing religion. So you’ve placed another limitation on it. There is nothing in the 1st that says religion can’t be taught, even at the tax payer’s expense. Another limitation. This is what you folks do; you place religion in a nice neat little box because YOU are uncomfortable with certain practices. The constitution was not written to make everyone feel comfortable; and does not guarantee someone wont be offended. The only thing the 1st guarantees is we can FREELY practice our religion and congress wont establish an official religion.

So you'll have 400 kids, in the same room, all trying to pray their own way (when lot's of religions require you to pray out loud) and expect there to be anything less the bedlam?

Having a faculty member lead kids in prayer is saying "We endorse this". Bottom line, you can't do that, that is the establishment of religion. Not to mention the issue that arises when there is no catholic teacher. Who leads the catholic kids...oh nobody. So now the protestant kids, and the muslim kids, and the jewish kids get lead but not the catholic kids.

There may not be anything in the 1st amendment that says you can't give tax dollars but a whole slew of supreme court cases do:
MCCOLLUM v. BOARD OF EDUCATION
ENGEL v. VITALE (read this one if you want to know about faculty lead prayer)
LEMON v. KURTZMAN (this goes to my later point that the government is, in-fact, secular)
ALLEGHENY v. ACLU

I can go on and on about this one.

How worried are you that some of the science being taught to our impressionable kids is false? How worried are you that some of the history being taught is choc-full-o-propaganda intended to indoctrinate kids with leftist nonsense?

Fist, history is a science. Archaeology, anthropology, paleontology are all science fields. I'd be interested in what specifically the "leftist nonsense" your speaking of is. Is it anywhere near as ridiculous as the people who say the Civil War wasn't fought over slavery because the average soldier didn't own a slave? Go ask a Vietnam Vet if they (that individual) were fighting for the same reason the war was started (why the government was fighting)?

Second, again, I'd like to know which parts of science are false. Because if you have the evidence that they are false I and a lot of scientists would love to see it. The problem with the way science is taught is vague terms like theory and law are used with almost no explanation as to what those terms mean in science. Kids should know, that science is based on observation and experimentation and will change as new observations are made and new experiments are done. That's why the science today is better than it was 100 years ago, and will be better in 100 years than it is now. You do no favors to kids or to science, to present science as having all the answers right now, that makes kids not want to be scientists.

How worried are you that sex ed is doing more to encourage kids to have sex rather than prevent it? We turn a blind eye to everything except religion. We can hand our kids over to perfect strangers to teach them how to have sex without batting an eye; but teach them about peace, love, and eternal life…… THIS MUST BE STOPPED!

Not at all, because 1) it isn't (and I have the data to back that up, see below) and 2) teenagers have sex, they have always had sex, they used to get married as teenagers. In the play Romeo and Juliet, we are told Juliet is 13 almost 14 and audiences of the time didn't find that odd at all, because it was normal.

Lady Capulet: She's not fourteen ....

Nurse: ....She's not fourteen. How long is it now to Lammastide?
Lady Capulet: A fortnight and odd days.
Nurse: Even or odd, of all days in the year,
Come Lammas Eve at night shall she be fourteen.

Act 1, Sc. 1 Romeo and Juliet by William Shakespeare

<img src="http://blog.thenationalcampaign.org/pregnant_pause/2010_Teen_Pregnancy_Rate.jpg">

I took sex ed in High School, not once was I taught how to have sex. I was taught a lot of biology. I was taught how a baby went from fertilization, to embryo, to fetus, to baby. Never once was I taught how to or that I should have sex.

Our government is not secular. It’s agnostic. Through our founders’ documents you see countless references to religion and how it influenced their thinking. Starman's thread pointed out many states references specific to Christianity. But when it came to the constitution they were careful not to specify which.

The definition of secular is anything that is separate from religion. It's not against religion, it doesn't attack or disprove religion it's just something outside of religions. That is exactly what our government is. I doesn't get involved with religion any farther than to say you can have one, you can have which ever one you want and you have to let the other guy have his. That's it, beyond that we are completely different than religion. So our government is the very definition of secular.

 

[ItalianScallion]

I never said teach atheism, I said teach nothing. If you teach one, you have to teach them all.

I thought schools were for teaching the truth to our kids so they could make correct life decisions? I wonder how bad it would be on a military battlefield if every soldier was allowed to fight any way he believed, instead of in an orderly rehearsed manner? We've all gotta be on the same page in major life issues and religion is one of them.

Anyhow McGinn, I wanted to give you some of the "examples" that you asked me for earlier this week about stopping free speech. I got a flyer today from the Alliance Defense Fund and it will be easier to give you a website with them on it. As I said, there was a Pastor in Canada (Rev Stephen Boissoin) who was charged with a hate crime there for speaking against homosexuality. If you're really interested, the site is: www.speakupmovement.org

How worried are you that some of the science being taught to our impressionable kids is false? How worried are you that some of the history being taught is choc-full-o-propaganda intended to indoctrinate kids with leftist nonsense? How worried are you that sex ed is doing more to encourage kids to have sex rather than prevent it? We turn a blind eye to everything except religion. We can hand our kids over to perfect strangers to teach them how to have sex without batting an eye; but teach them about peace, love, and eternal life…… THIS MUST BE STOPPED!

 

[McGinn77]

I thought schools were for teaching the truth to our kids so they could make correct life decisions? I wonder how bad it would be on a military battlefield if every soldier was allowed to fight any way he believed, instead of in an orderly rehearsed manner? We've all gotta be on the same page in major life issues and religion is one of them.

Funny how I seem to get along with nearly everyone I know and work together to the same end without having the same religious beliefs. Even my wife and I don't agree.

What you're proposing is dangerously close to thought control. Have you ever happened to read 1984?

 

[ItalianScallion]

Funny how I seem to get along with nearly everyone I know and work together to the same end without having the same religious beliefs. Even my wife and I don't agree.

What you're proposing is dangerously close to thought control. Have you ever happened to read 1984?

I'm not suggesting thought control. I'm saying that we'd all get along better if we all were closer in our thinking about what is right & wrong. We have a standard for it but most ignore it. I mean, look at our government, our religions, our world, etc., all because we disagree soo much about what's right & wrong.

 

[McGinn77]

I'm not suggesting thought control. I'm saying that we'd all get along better if we all were closer in our thinking about what is right & wrong. We have a standard for it but most ignore it. I mean, look at our government, our religions, our world, etc., all because we disagree soo much about what's right & wrong.

 

[jkeller]

This is crazy. If they don't like our society then they should leave. Good luck at finding a better country that is more open to their cult/'religion' than we are. [and if their society is so "good," what made them leave in the first place?]

"Give 'em an inch and they'll take an ell."