National ID card

[Ken King]

Personally I see the National ID card as just another chipping away at freedom. Not to mention, as offered by Bogart, as soon as one is developed there will be those out there manufacturing fraudulent ones or devising means to circumvent the system. Then there will be others attempting, and more then likely succeeding, to hack into the system to capture any data linked from the cards and use it for illegal or invasive reasons.

As an American, not involved in any illegal activities, why must I be registered as you would a dog or a handgun and have to provide my “papers” on demand? This smacks at the essence of a free society, the presumption of innocent until proven guilty, the ability to freely move within the country and associate with those we choose as we would be required to prove we do in fact belong here at the discretion of any authority.

Before any of us endorse the further trimming of our freedoms we should know clearly and exactly what data will be carried on the cards or what access a person could obtain from having our identification number and at what times or for what purposes we would need to present it. To just give carte blanche to the government to institute this registration process is in my mind not very American. We should have a long and serious look at the implications and potential abuses before being subjected to any concept such as this. Identification theft is already a significant problem and it looks like the National ID card could just be another avenue that could be exploited.

 

[Vince]

The SSA could easily update these basic identifiers with current information they already have on file about each of us, then issue new state-of-the-art cards, similar to the military ID.

Those who do not have SSNs (like illegals and State Sovereign Citizens) would not be issued the card. Makes weeding out the illegals very easy in my opinion. But as was mentioned earlier, even if put in place, I'm sure the program would be mismanaged, unequally applied throughout the U.S., and probably wouldn't change a darn thing.

But I think you are correct in the weeding out of illegal aliens. Hopefully the program won't be mismanaged.

 

[ylexot]

Yeah, but cards can get lost and stolen.

And how many people in the world look the same or very similar to you? That's why I mentioned that the cards would have to use some anti-tamper and anti-couterfeit technologies. If someone gets your card, so what? What do you think they can do with it?

 

[Penn]

Personally I see the National ID card as just another chipping away at freedom.
Before any of us endorse the further trimming of our freedoms we should know clearly and exactly what data will be carried on the cards or what access a person could obtain from having our identification number and at what times or for what purposes we would need to present it. To just give carte blanche to the government to institute this registration process is in my mind not very American. We should have a long and serious look at the implications and potential abuses before being subjected to any concept such as this. Identification theft is already a significant problem and it looks like the National ID card could just be another avenue that could be exploited.

I can't agree more with you Ken. However, will we as citizens have a choice in the matter?

Is this an issue that will be put on state ballots for a vote?

Is it something the House will establish as a resolution, the Senate ratifies, and finally the President signs into law?

How do you see it coming about?

 

[Ken King]

I can't agree more with you Ken. However, will we as citizens have a choice in the matter?

Is this an issue that will be put on state ballots for a vote?

Is it something the House will establish as a resolution, the Senate ratifies, and finally the President signs into law?

How do you see it coming about?

Choice? Come on Penn, you losing it? Every couple of years we get our choice by voting for our representatives and I don’t see it showing up on any national or state ballot as a referendum question. It will come up in the Senate, the House or out of the Whitehouse if they try to make it a law, but it still has to run the same process. Congress passes it and then the President vetoes, signs, or he lets it sit where it also becomes law.

Hell, it’s such a stringent requirement upon the people that it should have to pass a test on a level equal to that of an amendment where it requires 2/3 of Congressional approval and ¾ of State ratification before implementation.

What are the pros and cons of having a National ID Card system and with current technology can it be protected?

 

[Penn]

Choice? Come on Penn, you losing it? Every couple of years we get our choice by voting for our representatives and I don’t see it showing up on any national or state ballot as a referendum question. It will come up in the Senate, the House or out of the Whitehouse if they try to make it a law, but it still has to run the same process. Congress passes it and then the President vetoes, signs, or he lets it sit where it also becomes law.

Hell, it’s such a stringent requirement upon the people that it should have to pass a test on a level equal to that of an amendment where it requires 2/3 of Congressional approval and ¾ of State ratification before implementation.

What are the pros and cons of having a National ID Card system and with current technology can it be protected?

Alright! I didn't mean to get your fur to stand up!
I know how it's supposed to work; if we don't like the job our Representative or Senator is doing for us, then we vote him/her out of office, and vote in someone we feel will serve our wants and needs better.

Tom Dashle(sp?) is an excellent example.

However, deals are made, tit for tat, between these folks, and I think something like this can make it's way through Congress.

I only wanted to get your opinion as to how it might get on the books.

 

[Hello6]

Alright! I didn't mean to get your fur to stand up!

Ken King is furry.

 

[Ken King]

No fur standing up here, you certainly read that a little different then I intended (Giant's game get to you a little ). I just couldn't believe the simplistic nature of your questions. And I was sure that you knew the process and was befuddled because as we all know it will have to work as it is supposed to before it can become law.

As far as wheeling and dealing, it's the same with any bill; you have to know that too. Hell, these guys are professionals at wheeling and dealing, that’s how the got there in the first place.

I am more interested in what the card will do, what it will be used for, or what it will contain upon and/or embedded within it. I would also like to know who will have access to that information and what they will be able to gain access to with it.

 

[vraiblonde]

Ken King is furry

You've met him, I see.

Ken, I'm curious what freedoms you will lose with a National ID card?

 

[Ken King]

Ken King is furry.

You could say that. I'm not challenged in a follicular manner as some are.

 

[Penn]

No fur standing up here, you certainly read that a little different then I intended (Giant's game get to you a little ). I just couldn't believe the simplistic nature of your questions. And I was sure that you knew the process and was befuddled because as we all know it will have to work as it is supposed to before it can become law.

As far as wheeling and dealing, it's the same with any bill; you have to know that too. Hell, these guys are professionals at wheeling and dealing, that’s how the got there in the first place.

I am more interested in what the card will do, what it will be used for, or what it will contain upon and/or embedded within it. I would also like to know who will have access to that information and what they will be able to gain access to with it.

Yeah, darn Giants! They gave it a heck of a shot, but I guess they just couldn't match up with the the Steelers.

I am with you on this one; I'm leery as he!! what the availablity of the information contained would mean for us as citizens, and furthermore, the counterfeiting end of it might just negate the whole effort anyways.

So, what will the Feds have gained in the end?

Does anyone know if this card can, or will be trackable? Could several GPS satelites have us in their crosshairs? That's even scarier!

 

[Ken King]

You've met him, I see.

Ken, I'm curious what freedoms you will lose with a National ID card?

Don't know yet. What will the card allow for? Who will be able to access data bases by using it? It might be fine, I just don't know, but a specific right in question is the one of being secure in our persons, houses, papers, and effects.

 

[vraiblonde]

Does anyone know if this card can, or will be trackable? Could several GPS satelites have us in their crosshairs? That's even scarier!

Why is that scary? Right this minute now, if the CIA wanted to hone in on you for some reason, they could do it. They could watch your every move, listen to your every word, track your every purchase and read your every forum post and email. The fact is that they're not interested in the vast majority of us because we're not doing anything that attracts their attention.

This is funny: I had a friend a few years back who got so psyched out about Big Brother that he wanted to basically go to ground - no more SS number, pay for everything in cash, get rid of his driver's license. Anything that "they" could use to track him, he wanted to ditch so he could become anonymous.

Once he realized that he would be relegated to a life of menial jobs where they pay you under the table, with no vehicle, no home and no email account, he decided to come up for air.

 

[SmallTown]

Why is that scary?

He's scared that the government will have a website where it posts how many times a person patrons the local porn store.

 

[Penn]

He's scared that the government will have a website where it posts how many times a person patrons the local porn store.

I suppose it's the realization that we're not as anonymous as we thought we were, once upon a time, or that you can't disappear into the crowd anymore.

He!!, there used to be a statement that went to the effect:

"A picture never lies!"

With the advent of digital photography, and the likewise available software, you can make a photograph look like anything you want it to.

Why, you could make ST into Richard Gere, and nobody would be the wiser!

 

[czygvtwkr]

I think a national ID card is needed just for the reason of identity theft. Social Security numbers are used for everything these days, and this makes it very easy once a thief obtains one to get their mits on every part of your life. If a national ID card wear issued that had some sort of protection in it like American Express Blue identity theft may be curtailed somewhat.

I would also like to consolidate the various ID's permits etc etc that I have to carry.

 

[Penn]

I think a national ID card is needed just for the reason of identity theft. Social Security numbers are used for everything these days, and this makes it very easy once a thief obtains one to get their mits on every part of your life. If a national ID card wear issued that had some sort of protection in it like American Express Blue identity theft may be curtailed somewhat.

I would also like to consolidate the various ID's permits etc etc that I have to carry.

I like your last thought especially.

With the circuit chip embedded into the card, we could have all of our permits consolidated into one card! Think of it - fishing, hunting , boating, driver's licenses, all rolled into one!

But, as Ken offers up for question, there are concerns that would have to be worked out before I felt entirely comfortable with the issue.

Could it be stolen? Not necessarily physically, but electronically?

 

[vraiblonde]

I would also like to consolidate the various ID's permits etc etc that I have to carry.

See, I'm totally diggin' on that. I'd love to have a chip implanted in my wrist or something that operates as my SS number, my credit card, my driver's license, my ATM card, my CVS and Safeway customer card....and maybe they could throw in a cellphone so I can talk to my wrist like Inspector Gadget. Throw in a key to my house, my office and my car and I'm all set.

Then the Feds can track me when I go to work, the grocery store and various kid activities until their eyes glaze over.

 

[Ronchad]

See, I'm totally diggin' on that. I'd love to have a chip implanted in my wrist or something that operates as my SS number, my credit card, my driver's license, my ATM card, my CVS and Safeway customer card....and maybe they could throw in a cellphone so I can talk to my wrist like Inspector Gadget. Throw in a key to my house, my office and my car and I'm all set.

Then the Feds can track me when I go to work, the grocery store and various kid activities until their eyes glaze over.

Chip in the wrist or buttocks.....imagine the extra surgery work the illegals will be getting into. Not to mention those that would want access to homes, businesses, safes....
As far as retinal scans I wonder if you can keep an eye in a usable condition once it's detached...

There could probably be some fail safes included in such devices to prevent that, but I would rather have my wallet stolen and the thief find out that my smart card is worthless to him than for him to cut off my left butt cheek...

But as far as national ID cards themselves...sure, why not? As long as they get the trains to run on time too.... hmmmmm?

 

[ylexot]

What are the pros and cons of having a National ID Card system and with current technology can it be protected?

Yeah, I was just thinking, what is gained by having a national ID? What is the scenario in which bad guys would get caught due to a national ID?