Need some advice about...

[SamSpade]

Crate training.

I haven't been part of housebreaking a dog since I was a kid. Back then, we put the pups on paper, and encouraged him to pee or poop on the newspaper, and when he got a little bigger, rolled UP the paper and smacked him on the nose, shoved his nose in the mess, and pushed him outside - until somehow, God help us, the dog got the idea that it might go better for him if he just did his business outside.

I can't say that it EVER really worked well. We kept the dogs on lines outside most of the time during the day - or in the garage - so the situation over pooping indoors was basically moot. As they got older, they just tended to go outside, but basically - any neighbor could TELL we had a dog. After years of soiled carpets, some smell always lingered.

We DID get the two new pups over the weekend. And they're energetic, curious about everything - very "puppy" like. And I think they pee about every three minutes. And drop little tootsie rolls about every ten. We have crates for them, and almost always, they don't "go" while in there. But I think I can walk them practically to death before they'll go *outside*, and there's no guarantee they won't turn around and go INSIDE once they're back in the house.

Questions for those who've succeeded:

1. How long does it take for them to get the idea? They're about 10-12 weeks old.
2. How often should they remain in the crates?
3. They're unavoidably going to be IN the crates, or at the very least, confined to a room in the house for long periods of time, even WITH the visits from pet-sitters we're paying. My gut instinct is, they cannot be left in crates this entire time, because their little bowels and bladders simply cannot hold it in that long. So, so far, they're being left in the laundry room with the crates open, but I worry this will *UNDO* the training we want to provide. Will this make training them more difficult?
4. Is there anything I can do to encourage them to go outside, reward them - or just MAKE THEM GO? They love to play and run, but they seem to want to do their business whenever the mood hits them.
5. How often do you let them roam in the house, outside the crates, during this time? Never? Occasionally, but only while supervised? This is frustrating for me, because I want to play with them while they're puppies, but I simply cannot keep watching them continually, and by the time they've DONE something, it's all damage control afterwards - it's too late.
6. Unrelated - but - how do you stop biting? We have like, a million toys for them - and one thing they seem to like are little pencil sized rawhide chews - but one in particular won't stop biting.

 

[Softballkid]

Crates shouldnt be castles for them, or they will always go in them.. you want the crate to be just big enough for them to go in, turn around, and lay down in all, stand with a lil hunch...that way they learn if they go in there, they cant get away from it, it helps the process of "dont shiat where ya sleep"

If you know they are goin to go potty every 5 minutes, try to take them to the door, let them know, come on, lets go potty, when they do, be VERY VERY energetic with them, lots of treats...

NEVER USE NEWSPAPER on them, NEVER PUT THERE NOSE IN IT... that teaches bad habits, and makes them scared... and it DOESNT WORK...

But Id definitly go with them every few minutes, take them to the door, tell them lets go potty, go potty a few times, with an excited voice, take them out, and take a few treats with you, when they are pup's, there dog food will also suffice....

JMO, try that

 

[Softballkid]

Right now my Rotti is only in the crate if we are goin to be gone for long periods of time... ie - work, goin to dinner and a drink.. other than that, he's out, if we are just goin to the dump, or to the store, he stays out, but he is house broken....

I believe in the however long he is crated, is how long he is uncrated...

What kind of dog is it? Some dogs are better than others when it comes to learning.... But never resort to smacking or rubbing there nose in it when they do bad behaviors, sometimes it very hard not to smack when they do those things, use a spray bottle of water... if they are chewing on something there not supposed to be, you spray them with the water, take the object, and YOU GIVE THEM one of THERE toys, so they learn what to chew on, what not to....

PATIENCE is the most important things with pups... there JUST LIKE CHILDREN... it takes time and patience

 

[happyappygirl]

First off, TWO at one time are difficult. I don't sell two to one family at once ever, just because people tend to do what you're doing, treating them like one. The problem with this is they bond to each other, and it is very difficult to get their individual attention focused on YOU. My First suggestion is TWO crates. Small crates that allow them to stand up and turn around (getting larger as they grow). This will discourage soiling unless they do it already. then you're SOL they'll do it anyways. Depends on how they were raised (were they in a clean environment?) Makes a difference.
Secondly, their bladders are the size of walnuts (or less) and they aren't physically capable of potty training until (on average) around 16 weeks. Up until that time TRAIN YOURSELF. They pee immediately upon waking and after play. Put them OUT at those times religiously. They poo immediately after eating. Repeat putting outside. Don't "Walk" them on their potty break. If you leash them, STAND in one spot, and let them do their business. Walks are for just that, walking. Not pooping. They'e curious, and playful. And again I stress treat them as individuals not one entity. Allow them play time every day, but for the most part, while in training, keep them separate. A fenced yard is better than on a leash BTW.

they should never have free time unattended in the house until they are completely housbroken. And like SBK said, different breeds are different. some vets say little ones never housebreak, just because are little, and people aren't as affected as they are by a BIG pile in the house. I know people who never even tried with teenie little dogs. Me? I'd drop kick the little suckers if they never went potty outside....but that's just me

Biting...i have addressed this in another thread. I'll try to find it.

 

[happyappygirl]

Biting...i have addressed this in another thread. I'll try to find it.

Repost:
My method is swift, and only needs to be done a few times at most to get the point across NO TEETH TO HUMAN SKIN EVER NEVER NO WAY. Bite inhibition is done by the mother, and also by the littermates, and is NOT cruel. I think Dems is passive, and as such if this were a bigger dog, she would be in real trouble. As it stands, he's a little dog, but those teeth are SHARP, and bite inhibition needs to be enforced from the beginning. With my puppies i do it from the time they begin to mouth me, when they are just getting teeth, by just making it uncomfortable - squeezing/pressing the lips over the teeth on either the upper or lower jaw until they yip, each and every time they bite, often with not a sound, just the act itself. Once this is established, they rarely if ever actually bite me (or anyone) again. I explain and demonstrate this to the new owers (because puppies will preiodically test the waters over time), and go as far as have them put their hands INTO their bowls when they eat to maintain that level of respect. But i have BIG-BIG doggies, if i did some of the choke chain pop corrections on little ones I have to do on big ones the little ones would fling through the window

FWIW, I NEVER smack them, that's just not effective (in my book) they become face shy if you whack them, and my show dogs just can't be like that. My AHHH AHHHHH is often enough to elicit the correct response, but with dog training, it's all about TIMING, like horselady said, you have about a 3-5 second window for them to actually relate the consequence to the action. if you miss that, your correction is for naught. Same thing with potty training. Don't whack them for peeing, just snatch and run, put them out when they're doing it if you catch them. If you whack them for doing it, or drag them back to it, they begin to think the actual act is what got them into trouble and will hide it, or hold it until you aren't looking if that makes sense.

 

[Bustem' Down]

I failed in crate training my JRT. I got him from the pound so every time I put him in there I felt bad. Like I was sending him where I got him. He's 6 now and sleeps in the bed and is house broken so it's all good.

 

[happyappygirl]

I failed in crate training my JRT. I got him from the pound so every time I put him in there I felt bad. Like I was sending him where I got him. He's 6 now and sleeps in the bed and is house broken so it's all good.

that mindset is called personification. they are not people, and don't think like people. Dogs are den animals in the wild and actually LIKE the crate environment, if it is used correctly.

but the point is, you trained YOURSELF...to become sensitive to the behavior/needs of your dog. Not all people can do that. Not all dogs adjust. We have a deaf JRT, and i'm just too pressed for time to keep him with me every second he's in the house on a leash, to train him, but i prolly could if i set my mind to it. I just use the crate. it's easier.

 

[SamSpade]

Thanks.

We do have two crates, and so far, at least one of them seems to like it as "his room". He treats it like his own dog house. The two of them are litter mates but they play a little rough so far. Usually if we leave them alone playing long enough, their rough playing simmers down a bit, so they are not growling.

At the shelter, they were already in crates and well cared for. They are used to other dogs, although at the pup stage, I don't imagine THAT being a problem. We were told they were "crate-trained" but I guess we misunderstood that to mean, "going outside". So far, it just means, they're used to being in crates and being taken outside - something that has been corroborated by our experience.

We have a fenced yard, which is where I've been "walking" them. It's the biggest yard of any home I've ever been in, and I honestly have some parts of it I've never set foot on after two years - so I don't imagine I will need much more space. I've been "walking" them because as long as they walk, they don't bite each other. I've noticed that they tend to "go" more often when their litter mate isn't nearby to bite and play with.

They *definitely* have distinctive personalities, even at such a young age. She's smaller but more aggressive, and by her behavior strikes me as much smarter than her brother. He's bigger, stronger, but less apt to run around. She *craves* human attention and being petted - albeit, BRIEFLY and frequently. He doesn't need it as much, but tends to cry more if someone isn't nearby - as in, I'm across the yard with the female, and he won't come running, but will whine and cry in place, because he doesn't want to follow. He's gentler most of the time unless he gets p!ssed. I think she will be a fun dog who will get into trouble a lot; he will be a loyal dog who will be "good" most of the time.

 

[happyappygirl]

i think every dog owner should read about wolves. their behavior. dogs are dogs. they will consistently behave like dogs no matter what. and the more we understand WHY they act the way they act, the better we will be able to address the problems we may encounter with them. we humans are their pack, and they will take whatever place in the pack WE allow. i live in with monarchy rules regarding my dogs. I pay the bills, you're here because I want you, and you'll learn how to play by MY rules. we all get along much better and my dogs are healthy, and very happy animals.

 

[happyappygirl]

SHE dominates HIM. typical pack behavior. females rule the roost. he would act differently if she weren't constantly reminding him who is boss. she will also begin to try to rule YOUR roost as well. She will need reminding.

 

[Softballkid]

Now my Rotti has a castle for a crate, Im 5'10, 198lbs, and myself and another friend can fit in it (drunk night...dont ask)..he cant stand almost straight up on all 4, and turn around in it with having to so to say "bend" all up to do it... haha

 

[vraiblonde]

there JUST LIKE CHILDREN... it takes time and patience

Bingo.

The only part of dog Mommying I've ever been successful at was the housebreaking. I'd potty trained two kids prior and it's pretty much the same concept. You just have to be patient and NO smacking or nose rubbing! You're trying to teach them, not punish them.

We never crated Goomba for housebreaking purposes - the crate was his time-out place when he was being naughty. When we had to leave him home, we blocked him off in the kitchen. We spent a good month on patrol, watching him vigilantly for squatting, upon which we would whisk him outside so, ideally, he would go out there. Unfortunately then he'd be distracted and didn't have to go anymore - until we brought him back indoors.

Just like potty training a toddler Of course, I've never tried to do two at a time, either.

As for the biting, is he biting to injure or just gnawing? Because I thought all puppies gnaw on things.

 

[cattitude]

Questions for those who've succeeded:

1. How long does it take for them to get the idea? They're about 10-12 weeks old.
2. How often should they remain in the crates?
3. They're unavoidably going to be IN the crates, or at the very least, confined to a room in the house for long periods of time, even WITH the visits from pet-sitters we're paying. My gut instinct is, they cannot be left in crates this entire time, because their little bowels and bladders simply cannot hold it in that long. So, so far, they're being left in the laundry room with the crates open, but I worry this will *UNDO* the training we want to provide. Will this make training them more difficult?
4. Is there anything I can do to encourage them to go outside, reward them - or just MAKE THEM GO? They love to play and run, but they seem to want to do their business whenever the mood hits them.
5. How often do you let them roam in the house, outside the crates, during this time? Never? Occasionally, but only while supervised? This is frustrating for me, because I want to play with them while they're puppies, but I simply cannot keep watching them continually, and by the time they've DONE something, it's all damage control afterwards - it's too late.
6. Unrelated - but - how do you stop biting? We have like, a million toys for them - and one thing they seem to like are little pencil sized rawhide chews - but one in particular won't stop biting.

I have crate trained several dogs. First thing is to make sure the crate isn't too big and that you aren't expecting too much out of the little fellas. How old are they? Most puppies can't hold it but a few hours, especially if they are a smaller breed.

Take them out (on a leash) every couple of hours, use a "potty" word, when they go, praise them..happy, happy, happy voice and give them a little treat. NO PLAYING OUTSIDE until they get the idea that the outside is the potty place first and foremost.

You need to leave them in the crate, not in the laundry room with the crate open. You are defeating the purpose of crate training.

As far as roaming? NEVER! They need to be with you, supervised, at all times or in the crate. Doesn't do any good to punish them for pottying in the house after the fact. You need to catch them in the act or prevent it. I used baby gates and keep them close to me and I also kept them on a leash and moved them from room to room with me...bathroom...bedroom, etc. if I was doing things, like getting ready for work.

You need to establish a routine. First thing out of crate in the morning...out to potty, you may even need to carry them out. Eat...out to potty. You will learn with the aid of your dogs..some need to pee twice/poop twice after eating. You will just have to be observant. They need to go out as soon as they wake up from a nap. Always take them to the same spot.

Generally, they begin to get the idea after about a month or so but they are no where reliable. I'd say by 6 months or so, maybe longer.

The crate is also good for deterring bad habits, such as chewing. The crate is the dogs "den" -- their safe haven and should never be used for punishment....time outs are okay but always with positive reinforcement.

Biting or "mouthing" is normal. But it can become a very bad habit if not stopped. Yelp loudly and say "no bite," and immediately ignore the puppy. Stop the play for a few minutes. Keep repeating every time this happens. It doesn't take long for them to get the idea.

Good luck. Holler if you need any other help.

 

[happyappygirl]

Now my Rotti has a castle for a crate, Im 5'10, 198lbs, and myself and another friend can fit in it (drunk night...dont ask)..he cant stand almost straight up on all 4, and turn around in it with having to so to say "bend" all up to do it... haha

FYI i've bred, raised, trained and shown Rotties for 25 years. We have puppies all over the world. I wear the title b!tch proudly.

 

[Softballkid]

FYI i've bred, raised, trained and shown Rotties for 25 years. We have puppies all over the world. I wear the title b!tch proudly.

I love Rotti's, Ill NEVER EVER own ANY other type of dog...though she wants one of them ankle biters.. I just dont think him and an ankle biter in the house would work to well...he's to jealous as it is, and he's definitly a daddy's boy...

Maybe one day we could meet up and you could give me a few pointers on some things with mine... He's like me...stubborn as a rock when he wants to be but for the most part, VERY VERY smart, good dog

 

[happyappygirl]

I love Rotti's, Ill NEVER EVER own ANY other type of dog...though she wants one of them ankle biters.. I just dont think him and an ankle biter in the house would work to well...he's to jealous as it is, and he's definitly a daddy's boy...

Maybe one day we could meet up and you could give me a few pointers on some things with mine... He's like me...stubborn as a rock when he wants to be but for the most part, VERY VERY smart, good dog

they know stuff and they know YOU know they know stuff, so why be redundant and repeat themselves? typical rottie behavior.
I have 3 Rotts (one very large stud dog), 2 JRTs and 2 ACDs. Life is good.

 

[SamSpade]

As for the biting, is he biting to injure or just gnawing? Because I thought all puppies gnaw on things.

No, he's just being a puppy. But he won't just let you pet him - he's always chewing on your finger. We must have bought them about two dozen toys to chew on, and they chew on things they find on the floor - like my loafers, a piece of paper, a small bit of log from the fireplace. Anything OTHER than what we've put out for them.

The little pencil rawhides DO seem to be doing the trick. I imagine they TASTE good, so that keeps them busy. We always have several in their crates with the door open - so they go in and sit down and chew. But he still bites. One will likc your face, the other will bite it.

 

[cattitude]

The little pencil rawhides DO seem to be doing the trick. I imagine they TASTE good, so that keeps them busy. We always have several in their crates with the door open - so they go in and sit down and chew. But he still bites. One will likc your face, the other will bite it.

Rawhide

 

[vraiblonde]

But he won't just let you pet him - he's always chewing on your finger.

That's just what they do. When he starts to chew on you, pull your hand away and tell him "No biting" in a firm voice. Then go back and pet him, removing your hand and repeating "No biting" if he starts to chew on you. Be firm and consistent, but not mean. Remember that he's just a baby - he'll get it.

 

[Nickel]

I'm sure this has all been covered before, but I'll put in my 2 cents, since I'm going through similar things right now. My puppy is 11 weeks old.

As far as crate training, I've had nothing but success. The first week or so he woke up a lot in the middle of the night (to use the bathroom) and had a few accidents in the crate. We never scolded him, just washed the blankets and cleaned out the crate with an odor neutralizer. Now he sleeps through the night like a champ, and has no accidents in the crate. We keep his crate door open all day, and he wanders in and out. Sometimes I'll put him in for an hour at a time while we're at home, and sometimes he'll go in and take a little nap. Otherwise he's out and about, interacting with the family.

As far as housetraining, he's doing well, but you can't expect too much out of them. When he's not in the crate, it seems like he pees every twenty minutes or so. So I take him out about every 30 or 45 minutes. I stand on the patio while he roams around looking for a place to pee, then he heads back to the door. He knows we're out there to use the bathroom, but hasn't fully figured out that he's only supposed to go potty outside. He loves to bark just to hear himself bark sometimes, but doesn't bark to let you know he has to go outside. We have a small leash we've never used that we've started leaving by the patio door (on the floor). When he picks it up, we take him outside, whether he wants to go or not. Whatever works.

As far as biting, I took Happy's advice a few days ago (wrap your hand around their mouth until they yelp, I reinforced with NO BITE) and it worked instantly. He's had to be reminded a few times, but has improved immensely. I too bought everything under the sun for him to chew on. He barks at the pig's ears and ignores everything else. Yesterday I picked up a little puppy Nylabone for $2 and he loves it.