Neither Republicans or Democrats trusted

[2ndAmendment]

Polls (for what they are worth) on Fox this morning showed that those surveyed thought that the Democrats and Republicans were doing an equally bad job and were equally untrustworthy. I could actually believe this. Time for new parties to emerge? Could be. Time for office seekers (not politicians - they never will) to tell the truth in campaigns? It has always been the right time for that. Will we get it? I doubt it with the quality of people that run for office and the gullibility of the American public.

 

[Tonio]

As a nonaligned voter, I believe in the libertarian (small L) idea of keeping Democrats out of my wallet and Republicans out of my bedroom. (Imagine finding Tom DeLay or James Dobson lurking underneath your bed. )

 

[BuddyLee]

Time for new parties to emerge?.

I sure hope so.

 

[Mikeinsmd]

I'm a staunch "Pub" but I don't agree with their views on everything. These conglomerate companies netting BILLIONS in quarterly profits and getting ludicrous tax breaks HAS to stop!! I also believe they go a little too far on the abortion issues.

Definately time for another choice.

But when compared to the Dems....... I'll stay right where I am.

 

[vraiblonde]

These conglomerate companies netting BILLIONS in quarterly profits and getting ludicrous tax breaks HAS to stop!!

See, and I don't think corporations should pay taxes at all. Think about it: everyone who draws a paycheck already pays taxes. Everything they buy for their company is taxed.

Plus, "profits" don't just sit there looking good - they get put back into the company, which means stuff gets bought, or people get bonuses (which are taxed as income).

To me, corporate taxes are double taxation on the same money.

 

[Tonio]

I don

See, and I don't think corporations should pay taxes at all.

You make a valid point. I've written before about my preference for replacing all income taxes with a national sales tax. I would include corporations, since their profits wouldn't be taxed.

 

[tomchamp]

Read this Book..

It makes alot of sense!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060875410/103-0292788-6324637?v=glance&n=283155&v=glance

 

[2ndAmendment]

See, and I don't think corporations should pay taxes at all. Think about it: everyone who draws a paycheck already pays taxes. Everything they buy for their company is taxed.

Plus, "profits" don't just sit there looking good - they get put back into the company, which means stuff gets bought, or people get bonuses (which are taxed as income).

To me, corporate taxes are double taxation on the same money.

But the income of citizens was not supposed to be taxed. The Sixteenth Amendment had to be passed in order to do it and it was not passed legally, so incomes taxes should not be legal. But I digress. The corporations and businesses and foreign trade should be taxed and the income of citizens should not. Taxing the income of citizens is where double taxation comes in. Since there are far fewer businesses than people, enforcement and auditing of proper payment of taxes would be more viable.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Now, back to the topic of the thread. Time to scrap the Democrates and Republicans and support other parties?

 

[sleuth]

Now, back to the topic of the thread. Time to scrap the Democrates and Republicans and support other parties?

I would definately support a Libertarian movement. I like a lot of the ideas a Constitutional party puts forward, too, but I must admit I'm not well-educated on the party stances for both on all the issues. Just some of them.

I just wish they would advertise a little more.
How are they supposed to gain any ground if they don't get out and make their views heard?

 

[2ndAmendment]

http://www.constitutionparty.com/party_platform.php

It is there for all to read.

 

[Midnightrider]

But the income of citizens was not supposed to be taxed. The Sixteenth Amendment had to be passed in order to do it and it was not passed legally, so incomes taxes should not be legal. But I digress. The corporations and businesses and foreign trade should be taxed and the income of citizens should not. Taxing the income of citizens is where double taxation comes in. Since there are far fewer businesses than people, enforcement and auditing of proper payment of taxes would be more viable.

How do you figure it wasn't passed legally?

 

[Vixen]

I am confused....

If I am running a business that nets 250K a year and I pay 3 employees 25K plus whatever other employee expenses, I subtract that expense. So now the company has 165K in profit (giving 10K to employee benefits). Now I subtract whatever the cost that are associated with the business minus employee expenses and pay taxes on what is left.

How is that being taxed twice?

In a sense, profits that are put back into the company are written off as well.

 

[Bustem' Down]

I'm starting the Bustem' Down party. You can tell by the name that I have a strong foriegn policy. I will be running against the Texas Pete ticket.

 

[SamSpade]

Now, back to the topic of the thread. Time to scrap the Democrates and Republicans and support other parties?

Unfortunately, there's a handful of things here. For one thing, no other alternative party really covers what I believe. Secondly, for the time being, no other party has the MONEY to put a dent in the power the main two parties have already. A third party has to decide to *first* and foremost secure a position in *Congress*. I don't know why on earth they're always gunning for the White House. A President with NO allies in Congress would be close to useless.

Further - a third party has to adopt a position different from the other two - and that ain't easy. We *have* independents in Congress - but for all intents and purposes, they're just Democrats/Republicans in another guise - most of the "independents" are fairly reliable how their voting record aligns with one party or the other.

What we could use is, a party of moderates. I know this annoys some who join up with political parties because of the polar extremes. They're convinced that the extremes *define* the party and give it conviction on principles. BULL. Most party lines that are *extreme* are rejected by their base.

The majority of Americans are moderate. If they vote in a Democrat at all, he'll be fairly moderate. If they vote in a conservative, the same is true, *usually*. A party of moderates with ANY KIND of voting bloc in Congress would not just be a bunch of Democrats/Republicans in another guise - they'd have the power to throw the legislation one way or the other.

I'd vote for something like that.

 

[ylexot]

The problem with a "moderate party" is what would be the party line? What would be the party's position on topic X? The moderates agree with Dems on some issues and Repubs on other issues, but which issues are which depends on the person. The independent party is supposed to be the party of no party line. I like that. It forces people to look at the issues/candidates instead of the party. Of course, most people don't want to look at issues and positions. That's why there are Dems and Repubs...pick the one that's closest to what you like so you don't have to think too much. They're polar opposites, so it's pretty easy to figure out where you stand in relation. Don't think, don't discuss, just pick your crowd. How do we get other parties? Get people to think and discuss the topics and ideas.

 

[SamSpade]

The problem with a "moderate party" is what would be the party line? What would be the party's position on topic X?

Well, what IS the Democratic Party's line when they field someone like Evan Bayh? What IS the Republican Party line when they field someone like Giuliani, Schwarzenegger or McCain? Despite all the posturing - they're pretty "flexible" when it comes to a lot of issues. And it would make defeating either party very difficult.

My mom says, she's a one-issue voter - abortion. She doesn't care about the party, she just cares how they will deal with that single issue. Whichever party matches her position - they have her vote, period.

I'm not crafting a moderate party - but the thing is, I have a hard time *stomaching* the extremes in the parties that exist. Which would you rather have - a party that adopts views you can't stand - and that you feel obliged to support - or a party that doesn't take extreme views on a lot of issues - but doesn't take an extreme where you think it should?

The thing is - the "middle" road is the one that ends up being adopted in the long run. Moderates in either party are the ones that people WANT. What are their views? Left and right of center candidates are the ones who usually win. Why not construct a platform around what most Americans already believe, instead of striving for some THIRD option you'd have to sell them on?

 

[Bustem' Down]

The problem with a "moderate party" is what would be the party line?

Apathy?

 

[Larry Gude]

I'm for that...

The corporations and businesses and foreign trade should be taxed and the income of citizens should not. Taxing the income of citizens is where double taxation comes in. Since there are far fewer businesses than people, enforcement and auditing of proper payment of taxes would be more viable.

...right after we make it so the only people that can vote are the people who own or operate majority shares of companies.

After all, it would make keeping track of votes and politicians much more 'viable' because there's less of us.

I'm gonna tell all of you right here and right now that this third party everyone seems to want will come to major being in one election cycle if you all would simply vote for who you WANT as opposed to who you don't.

We know, fact certain, that a great deal of Democratic voters did NOT want John Kerry yet they voted for him anyway as a vote AGAINST W. So, what did they get?

W won anyway and they're stuck with John Kerry thinking they love him.

If Kerry had lost by some 20,000,000 votes because our leftists voted for Dean and Kucinich, Democrats wouldn't have to put up with him anymore.

People voted FOR W in 2000 because they were sick of Slick Willy and Gore was not his own man enough to over come that. Gore should have won that race going away.

2008 provides a unique opportunity; a full race. No Whitehouse backed headstart (unless Cheney runs). No incumbent running for a second term.

There is absolutely no reason to NOT vote for who you really want this time around:

McCain
Hillary
Bayh
Condi
An Indy.
Kucinich

You name them.

If you keep voting against someone, by definition, you'll never get who you want.

 

[Larry Gude]

So...

...let's get into the nuts and bolts of this 'third' way, this new party.

What do you all want to see on the following issues:

Taxes

Iraq

War with Terrrorists

Social Security

Energy policy

Civil Rights

Judges

The Environment

Healthcare

Immigration


Pick one or pick all and describe what would get your vote.