"No Amnesty" petition

[Larry Gude]

Nope...

There is a difference between knowingly and unwittingly. It goes to intent. Were you duped? No jail time. Did you hire them to save bucks? Sit here for a year and think about it.

...your not gonna get my support, nor business' support if they face trials and legal hassles to determine if they were 'duped' or knowingly acted and possible jail time for putting someone to work.

That's a flat out deal breaker and shows me a complete disregard for the governments role and politicians roles in standing around until this problem got so big.

Right now you are talking about putting 100's of thousands of small and large business owners on trial to determine what we all already damn well know.

All you have to do and all you have to accept is civil penalties, fines, and not only will you get compliance but you will generate a bit of change to help pay for all of this.

 

[2ndAmendment]

...your not gonna get my support, nor business' support if they face trials and legal hassles to determine if they were 'duped' or knowingly acted and possible jail time for putting someone to work.

That's a flat out deal breaker and shows me a complete disregard for the governments role and politicians roles in standing around until this problem got so big.

Right now you are talking about putting 100's of thousands of small and large business owners on trial to determine what we all already damn well know.

All you have to do and all you have to accept is civil penalties, fines, and not only will you get compliance but you will generate a bit of change to help pay for all of this.

I don't think so. I posted elsewhere that my daughter has to call some government agency to check the validity of documents before someone is hired where she works. It is easy to do. Vrai already submits reports as do all business owners to the New Hire Registry.

I think a photocopy of the Social Security/Green card in the employee file is good enough. If the document was false, the onus falls on the presenter and not on the person presented to.

I'm not hard over on jail time for business owner/operators. Fines are fine. But then there is the guy who pays the fine and keeps hiring illegals. What do you do with him?

I also know the reality of legislative give and take. You ask for Mars in order to get the moon. You ask for walls, border agents, stronger enforcement, deportions, fines, and jail time. You are saticfied when you get border agents, stronger enforcement, deportions, and fines.

 

[Larry Gude]

Good...

I'm not hard over on jail time for business owner/operators. Fines are fine. But then there is the guy who pays the fine and keeps hiring illegals. What do you do with him?

...that is a reasonable concession on your part. As far as fines, allow the agency assessing and enforcing this (INS?) discretion with a basic mandate to be motivating compliance. Start small, go big if compliance is not forthcoming. Business people are EZ to deal with. Some guy who is hiring illegals for $5 or 10$ and hour under what he might of had to pay is looking at this through a profit and loss lens. If a months wages doesn't cut it, make it two. Then three. Then four and so on. At some point he'll simply comply because THAT became the correct business decision.

I'm not asking for Mars to get the moon. I'm telling you jail time for giving someone a job is gonna turn the world on it's head. As easy as your girl says it is, we're still told we have some 10,000,000 people who don't seem to agree.

As far as walls, agents and all the rest, that must come first or this is ALL moot. If we're gonna do it, we gotta do it BIG. This MUST be comprehensive, like the TSA, or we're all doomed.






We're doomed.

 

[Larry Gude]

As I said...

...I was gonna sign the petition, no amnesty, except for the jail time proviso.

Charge people, business and illegals. Set up payment plans. Garnish wages but getthe numbers under control.

 

[2ndAmendment]

... As easy as your girl says it is, we're still told we have some 10,000,000 people who don't seem to agree.

...If we're gonna do it, we gotta do it BIG. This MUST be comprehensive, like the TSA, or we're all doomed.






We're doomed.

She does it for everyone they hire. I think they could set up an on line service in addition to the phone service to check documents if they don't already have one.

• Guy comes in for a job.
• Thanks for coming in. May I see your Social Security card or Green card?
• Thank you. I'm going to make a copy of this, OK?
• Yes.
• Thank you. Here is an employment application. Please fill it out and return it to me.
• OK.
• While person is filling out application call or log on and check validity of document.
  1. document valid. OK - hope this guy works out
  2. document not valid - Check box on form on line or tell person on phone that this person is applying for work.
• Take employment application
  1. If document is valid and the guys application looks promising, give him a shot. You can always fire him later.
  2. if document was not valid ask illegal if the contact information is current so that you can call. No. Please correct the information so we can contact you.
• File the application. If the INS shows up, you have the documentation that you did your part. And if the guy was illegal, you have contact information so they can go round him up.

Seems simple to me.


And you are right, if it is like TSA, we are doomed.

 

[Larry Gude]

If that's the way it is...

She does it for everyone they hire. I think they could set up an on line service in addition to the phone service to check documents if they don't already have one.

• Guy comes in for a job.
• Thanks for coming in. May I see your Social Security card or Green card?
• Thank you. I'm going to make a copy of this, OK?
• Yes.
• Thank you. Here is an employment application. Please fill it out and return it to me.
• OK.
• While person is filling out application call or log on and check validity of document.
  1. document valid. OK - hope this guy works out
  2. document not valid - Check box on form on line or tell person on phone that this person is applying for work.
• Take employment application
  1. If document is valid and the guys application looks promising, give him a shot. You can always fire him later.
  2. if document was not valid ask illegal if the contact information is current so that you can call. No. Please correct the information so we can contact you.
• File the application. If the INS shows up, you have the documentation that you did your part. And if the guy was illegal, you have contact information so they can go round him up.

Seems simple to me.

...if it's that easy and we've umpteen zillion illegals, what's that tell us?

 

[2ndAmendment]

...if it's that easy and we've umpteen zillion illegals, what's that tell us?

Tells me that the system is not in place completely, most don't use the system that is in place, many employers don't use the system to save money, and "Jose", who is illegal, is running an illegal business with his relatives and friends and ignores any laws and the system.

 

[2ndAmendment]

It also tells me that if the system was really in place completely, illegals would be leaving in droves because they would know they were not going to get any work without legal documentation. They might even try to get back here legally, and I have no problem with that.

The system, if every employer, followed it, would police itself. No work. No welfare. No benefits. No reason to be here illegally.

 

[vraiblonde]

...if it's that easy and we've umpteen zillion illegals, what's that tell us?

That employers are paying illegals under the table and fake SSNs aren't that prevalent. And since employers have to explain where all that cash is going out of their business, they're fudging in other areas as well.

The stereotype is that illegal immigrants hang out at 7-11s or wherever waiting for someone to come along and hire them for the day. I don't know if that's the way it happens or not but, if it is, you know damn well nobody on the face of the earth is filling out the paperwork and registering everyone they hire for day labor. They certainly pay them cash at the end of the day.

I'm telling you - it takes one month for them to contact me when someone gets hired that needs to have child support garnished. And they do that by a flag on the SSN. So certainly they'd notice if someone's SSN didn't match with their name (or anybody's name), and within a month you would know whether your employee was working illegally or not.

 

[Ken King]

...I was gonna sign the petition, no amnesty, except for the jail time proviso.

You do know that current law already has a provision for jailing employers that exhibit a pattern of hiring illegals (as well as fining them).