No Child Left Behind

[ylexot]

I saw this article and thought I'd start a discussion. My GF (a teacher) and I have discussed it some, but frankly, neither of us is very well versed on the subject. She's against it because of the standardized testing. I support it for the same reason

Anybody know more about it or have any feelings about it? Anybody know of a good synopsis of NCLB? (I don't want to read the whole thing)

 

[Tonio]

I don't know all that much about it.

But if it's like every other top-down education initiative that I've seen, it's probably some hairbrained scheme that promises to fix everything that ails schools. All these programs seem to be pushed by politicians who only visit schools for photo ops. They make teachers' jobs more stressful, keep the taxpayer-money-sucking desk-driving central office administrators secure in their useless patronage jobs, and don't do a damn thing to really help kids learn.

Michael Jackson on the program: "My goal is to leave no child's behind."

 

[Toxick]

Originally posted by ylexot
My GF (a teacher) and I have discussed it some, but frankly, neither of us is very well versed on the subject. She's against it because of the standardized testing. I support it for the same reason

Wow - they actually expect kids to be capable of reading and doing math at their own grade level? What kind of unreasonable nonsense is that?

To expect my kids' intellectual ability to actually INCREASE as they progress through school? WHOA?



What a bunch of chumps. It sounds like they're playing partisan politics with children.

My advice:

Teach my kids math.
Teach them science.
Teach them how to read.
Teach them history and english and art.


If you teach them to be hippies, expect a very ugly, very loud, very stubborn problem very fcking fast.

 

[Hot N Bothered]

Re: Re: No Child Left Behind

Originally posted by Toxick
Wow - they actually expect kids to be capable of reading and doing math at their own grade level? What kind of unreasonable nonsense is that?

To expect my kids' intellectual ability to actually INCREASE as they progress through school? WHOA?



What a bunch of chumps. It sounds like they're playing partisan politics with children.

My advice:

Teach my kids math.
Teach them science.
Teach them how to read.
Teach them history and english and art.


If you teach them to be hippies, expect a very ugly, very loud, very stubborn problem very fcking fast.

If we teach all the kids all that stuff, who will be the janitors and convience store clerks for the next generation. :shrug: I guess that's what immigrants are for.

 

[vraiblonde]

Isn't it interesting that now we spend more than ever on education, and test much more than we did in previous generations - yet schools are having to dumb down the curriculum so kids can actually progress to a higher grade?

I just got a call from the lady at our high school, wanting to know if we would donate money to keep the school's science department going. You're kidding me, right? What next - parents will have to kick in to keep the English classes going?

 

[Ken King]

Originally posted by ylexot
Anybody know of a good synopsis of NCLB? (I don't want to read the whole thing)

Here is one I found that I think does a good job explaining what the NCLB Act tries to do,
Standards and Student Assessment. NCLB attempts to strengthen accountability for federal funds by requiring states to implement student assessment systems covering all students, not just special groups. All students must be exposed to challenging standards in reading and mathematics, with annual testing for all students in grades 3 and 8. There are targets for all students to meet and an emphasis on growth over the school year referred to as Adequate Yearly Progress (AYP).

Accountability. NCLB states that school districts and schools that fail to make adequate yearly progress toward statewide proficiency goals will, over time, be subject to improvement, corrective action, and restructuring measures aimed at getting them back on course to meet state standards. Schools that meet or exceed AYP objectives, or close achievement gaps, will be eligible for State Academic Achievement Awards. However those awards are not included in the funding.

Choice for Parents. The Act increases the choices available to the parents of students attending schools that fail to meet state standards and do not make progress. Districts must give assistance to students attending schools identified for improvement, or give parents the opportunity to choose a school not identified for improvement within the school district. The district must provide transportation to the new school. Students attending schools identified as school improvement schools that failed to meet state standards for at least three preceding years, can use federal funds to obtain supplemental educational services of a public or a private-sector provider selected by the students and their parents. To help ensure that districts offer meaningful choices, the new law requires schools with improvement programs to spend up to 20 percent of their federal money to provide school choice and supplemental educational services for students.

Putting Reading First. No Child Left Behind states that every child will read by the end of third grade. To accomplish this goal, the new Reading First initiative would significantly increase the Federal investment in scientifically based reading instruction programs in the early grades. One major benefit of this approach would be reduced identification of children for special education services due to a lack of appropriate reading instruction in their early years. The new Reading First program will make competitive six-year awards to school districts to support early language development, literacy, and pre-reading development for preschool-age children, particularly those from low-income families.

 

[Hot N Bothered]

Re: Re: No Child Left Behind

Originally posted by Ken King
annual testing for all students in grades 3 and 8. ....

Putting Reading First. No Child Left Behind states that every child will read by the end of third grade. [/i]

Ooookkkk, if the kids aren't being tested until third grade, how do they (administrative folks and gubment people) know if the kids are on track for reading? One would assume the teachers have figured it out, but you never know. :shrug:

So by the time they are testing these kids, some of them have already been left behind.

 

[Nickel]

What about the kids that don't test well? I knew quite a few smart people in high school who got really bad grades because they flipped out during tests....and they knew this stuff, they could have open discussions in class on the subjects and study their butts off. I don't know how cost-efficient it would be, but how about continuous monitoring of the students by their teachers in the form of an assessment rather than a sit-down test every year. :shrug:

 

[vraiblonde]

Can I just say something here? Short of removing these "left behind" kids from their homes and getting them a decent foster family, there's not going to be a whole lot you can do.

Think about how your kid learned to read - hint: very little of it happened in a classroom.

You give them a foundation before they start school by reading to them and teaching them their ABCs. Then they start school and they run home, "Mommy, Mommy! Let me show you what I learned today!" and they read you a book or show you how they can write their name. You say, "Isn't that something! Let's go show Daddy!" So now the kid is getting reinforcement and practice at home.

The kids who "fall through the cracks" aren't getting that. You can test until you're blue in the face. You can fire all the teachers. But at the end of it all, the school only has that kid for 6 hours out of a day and there's only so much they can do. They can teach a kid to read simple words, then the kid forgets it overnight or over the weekend because he hasn't had a chance to practice it.

Hasn't anyone noticed that the more we encourage goverment to raise our children, the further kids fall behind?????

 

[vraiblonde]

And one more thing:

No Child Left Behind is a crock of ####. Some kids WILL be left behind, no matter what, and there's not a thing you can do about it.

 

[Ken King]

Re: Re: Re: No Child Left Behind

Originally posted by Hot N Bothered
Ooookkkk, if the kids aren't being tested until third grade, how do they (administrative folks and gubment people) know if the kids are on track for reading? One would assume the teachers have figured it out, but you never know. :shrug:

So by the time they are testing these kids, some of them have already been left behind.

Giving up on it already, huh? I guess we just should do nothing and create masses of uneducated and illiterate folk.

A teacher could assess the child's ability to read by doing it the way it was done a long time ago (like when I was a young lad in elementary school 40 some-odd years ago) by having each child stand and read a paragraph. It would become obvious which children needed further intensive instruction. But wait, we can’t do that now can we. I guess we should be more concerned about not subjecting them to a minute of embarrassment instead of worrying about what coddling them does to their ability to get the most out of the opportunities our society offers.

Originally posted by Nickel
What about the kids that don't test well? I knew quite a few smart people in high school who got really bad grades because they flipped out during tests....and they knew this stuff, they could have open discussions in class on the subjects and study their butts off. I don't know how cost-efficient it would be, but how about continuous monitoring of the students by their teachers in the form of an assessment rather than a sit-down test every year.

Maybe by exposing them to these tests earlier they can grasp the significance of them and overcome their aversion to them. I seem to recall that the first standardized tests I was subjected to were in the 5th grade. Tests continue in life after school, what are they to do then if they can’t handle them when they are young and trainable?

 

[Nickel]

Re: Re: Re: Re: No Child Left Behind

Originally posted by Ken King
Maybe by exposing them to these tests earlier they can grasp the significance of them and overcome their aversion to them. I seem to recall that the first standardized tests I was subjected to were in the 5th grade. Tests continue in life after school, what are they to do then if they can’t handle them when they are young and trainable?

Good point, but on the opposite side of the spectrum are the kids who cram for the test and pass with flying colors, but down the road find they've retained little to no information. But you're point of breaking them in early would probably (hopefully) teach them better study habits as well.

 

[Christy]

Originally posted by Nickel
What about the kids that don't test well? I knew quite a few smart people in high school who got really bad grades because they flipped out during tests....and they knew this stuff, they could have open discussions in class on the subjects and study their butts off. I don't know how cost-efficient it would be, but how about continuous monitoring of the students by their teachers in the form of an assessment rather than a sit-down test every year. :shrug:

I say tough titty. Life isn't fair and these kids need to learn to adapt and overcome.

I think you are aware that my oldest is dyslexic and has a very tough time when it comes to reading and writing. However, I've never bought off on the idea of the world conforming to his problem. :shrug:

 

[Ken King]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: No Child Left Behind

Originally posted by Nickel
Good point, but on the opposite side of the spectrum are the kids who cram for the test and pass with flying colors, but down the road find they've retained little to no information. But you're point of breaking them in early would probably (hopefully) teach them better study habits as well.

Those are the kids you need to keep an eye out for (the diamonds in the rough). It's easy for them and they know it. Prime candidates for advance placement to keep their interest peaked and to challenge them.

 

[Hot N Bothered]

Re: Re: Re: Re: No Child Left Behind

Originally posted by Ken King
Giving up on it already, huh? I guess we just should do nothing and create masses of uneducated and illiterate folk.

A teacher could assess the child's ability to read by doing it the way it was done a long time ago (like when I was a young lad in elementary school 40 some-odd years ago) by having each child stand and read a paragraph. It would become obvious which children needed further intensive instruction. But wait, we can’t do that now can we. I guess we should be more concerned about not subjecting them to a minute of embarrassment instead of worrying about what coddling them does to their ability to get the most out of the opportunities our society offers.

No, I'm not giving up on it. I'm just saying that there are bugs in the system that need to be worked out. The program itself needs to be evaluated, but there are kids being passed around from one school to another on the basis of a testing program, that itself is untested. Look at what happened to the MSPAP. The test was so screwed up they threw it out the window, and yet, when they talk about schools in Maryland that have "failed" for 3 or more years, that is based on that test.

Yes, teachers should be assessing children the way it was done 40 years ago, heck, 20 years ago. Let them read. You can't tell me that the kids in the class don't know who can and can't read well. Being put on the spot might just motivate them to learn.

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by Ken King
I guess we just should do nothing and create masses of uneducated and illiterate folk.

Do you have me on ignore?

 

[mainman]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
Do you have me on ignore?

Quoted for KK...

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by mainman
Quoted for KK...

Maybe he's got you on ignore, too.

 

[Ken King]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
Do you have me on ignore?

No, should I? If you notice the posts are spaced by 3 minutes which indicates that I was writing and reviewing my post prior to hitting the enter button. Your software doesn't update the posting screen to capture new posts so I didn't see your post until after the fact.

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by Ken King
Your software doesn't update the posting screen to capture new posts so I didn't see your post until after the fact.

See that button up on your menu bar - right above the Address bar on your browser? The one with the two green arrows on it, between the Delete button and the Home button, will refresh your browser if you click it.