No Child Left Behind

Pete

Repete
Re: Re: Re: Re: No Child Left Behind

Originally posted by Ken King
Giving up on it already, huh? I guess we just should do nothing and create masses of uneducated and illiterate folk.

We already have been. Thats what this program is supposed to fix. I can equate it to the good old GA public school system. When I was growing up in small town rural Ga there were 2 (or more)classes for each grade, an A and a B and even a C. 5A for example would be the kids who were in the upper portion of the grade level, 5B and 5C would be everyone else. The cirriculum was different, the pace was different and the methods of course were different. At the end of the year low and behold everyone passed. It didn't matter if the kids in 5B or C could read or not they were pushed along because there was a fresh crop right behind them and they needed seats. For years and years they would just push them through. They even got to the point they quit giving out diplomas and gave out completion certificates. All it meant was that you went to school, not that you grasped anything while there. All along the states were getting federal money but nothing changed. Before long there were hoards of illiterate goobers.

Basically the states just snuck them through all the while cashing the federal checks. Everyone was whining about goobers graduating who couldn't read. It was especially evident with atheletes who got to college on scholarships and couldn't read at all. Herchel Walker at the U of GA had to be tutored for a full year just to be able to read his books. Anfrenee Hardaway at Memphis State couldn't pass the basic skills test to begin his freshman year.

With these examples word got out that we are mass producing idiots. Civic leaders demanded action from the school districts, because LORD KNOWS they are not about to accept responsibility for pumping out future felons and dumb ass punks, the school districts stuck their hands out and the good old fed did what they always do stuff it with cash. No oversight, just trust me. Well guess what, the goobers got better gyms, better school lunches, cool movie projectors and new textbooks that they still could not read. Like the shampoo bottle directions, biytch, cash and repeat they cycle continues.

NCLB is an effort for the fed to stop blindly handing the states cash so it can be squandered on band uniforms and lights for the football field. It is a program that sets up a gauge to monitor that we the tax payers are getting something for our money, the states are spending wisely, and progress is finally being made with the money being spent. The states and local school districts now have someone looking over their shoulders requiring them to make progress or by God changes will be made. Of course they hate that because they have been operating with impunity forever and now all of a sudden the mean old fed is coming in and wanting to see bona fide progress.

Will it save every kid? No Will it make 90% of them math majors in college? No. What it does is it makes sure the "institutions" that are charged with teaching them are up to speed. The rest is up to them. It takes away their biych that the schools are to blame

Now, the part about NCLB that chaps my butt is the liberals, the NEA and all the other critics who wretch at the fed getting down into their business.

1. If the state and local school systems had been doing what they were supposed to be instead of running kid mills it would not have come to this.

2. This is a conservative outreach to the poor and downtrodden that we hear so much about. It is not the rich and upper middle class who are whining about crappy schools, it is the civic leaders in the poor districts. Here we go, instead of giving you a bigger check we are going to make sure the schools do their jobs by monitoring. If they fail, you will have options to change schools, we will change administrations, even teachers if we have to but the schools will perform. Why is it that anything less than a check is not viewed as assistance?
 
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vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Originally posted by Pete
This is a conservative outreach to the poor and downtrodden that we hear so much about.
But again, we're talking about kids who aren't going to learn crap no matter WHAT you do, simply because they get no reinforcement at home or in their community.

Schools are only as good as the parents that send their kids to them. And you can't even get good teachers in the ghetto because very few of them want to teach in a war zone.
 

Pete

Repete
Originally posted by vraiblonde
And one more thing:

No Child Left Behind is a crock of ####. Some kids WILL be left behind, no matter what, and there's not a thing you can do about it.
This is absolutly true. All the fed can do is ensure through a monitoring and standardiztion process that the mechanism "schools" are working the way they should. However the simple fact remains, you can press crap into the most expensive, hand crafted butter mold all day and it wont come out butter. That is what MLK said 50 years ago and what Bill Cosby is saying today.
 

Pete

Repete
Originally posted by vraiblonde
But again, we're talking about kids who aren't going to learn crap no matter WHAT you do, simply because they get no reinforcement at home or in their community.

Schools are only as good as the parents that send their kids to them. And you can't even get good teachers in the ghetto because very few of them want to teach in a war zone.
You cannot get teachers into the ghetto schools because the administrations in those areas have ALLOWED the situation to denigrate to that point. NCLB will go a long way to straightening that out because it will not accept that as an excuse. Fix it or else. Joe Brown in NJ did it.
 
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czygvtwkr

Guest
Several of my coworkers have told me that kids that transfered from "failing schools" ruined their kids perfectly good school. I think this boils down to hurting the good students for the sake of the poor ones...or atleast an attempt to make it look like your helping the poor ones.

I liked the analogy about the crap in the butter mold...
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Originally posted by Pete
You cannot get teachers into the ghetto schools because the administrations in those areas have ALLOWED the situation to denigrate to that point.
What are teachers supposed to do with kids who go home to an empty house if they're lucky? If they're NOT lucky, their crackhead Mom is "entertaining" or their older brother is having his gang over.

That's not the school administrators' problem nor can they solve it. You can build a nice, shiny new school in a blighted area and, 6 months later, it's destroyed. You can give big pay for teacher incentives, but if their students are pulling knives on them, they're going to bail.

Bill Cosby had it right - these people have to WANT their kids to do better. Unfortunately, most of them don't. And those kids WILL be left behind, no matter what teachers or school administrators do.

Firebomb all the slums in America. Watch the US average student test score rise magically overnight. :shrug:
 

newnickname

New Member
I believe every child should be tested early to place them in the right teaching style for their brain type.
Right brained kids do not learn as well as left brained kids in public school only because the curriculum is taught with left brained methods in most cases. I am lucky to not be dominated by either half, however my mother and brother are extremely right brained (visual learners). When we change our methods of teaching, I think more children will realize they are just as smart and try harder.
 

Spoiled

Active Member
I havent read the whole thread but im going to give my opinion based on what ive heard is going to happen... Which will lead into annother rant of mine...

Well i lied, im going to start with the rant... First off the schools push so hard for kids to enroll in the AP (advanced placement classes, if you pass the test you get a college credit). That would be great and all if all the kids that do enroll should have been there, if they shouldnt have been there then they slow the class down... Yet the school still looks good because they have more kids in these AP classes... Now i have never seen the numbers published anywhere but im willing to bet less than 1/3 people pass the AP tests at the end of the year, which the classes are suposed to prepare you for....

Now onto the no child left behind part... Due to this wonderful thing there will no longer be standard classes in St Marys highschools... The lowest level of classes will be CM (certificat of merit AKA college prep), which in previous years was just below honors classes. At first this sounds good, but then you come back to reality and realize you are filling these classes with many kids who dont want to be at school, arent willing to do work and just dont give a rats ass about any of it. These classes will become the same level that standard classes where the previous year. Which eliminates a level of 'advanced' classes which ultimatly will fill the AP classes with more people who should not be there.
 

ylexot

Super Genius
Spoiled, I'm a little confused on what you wrote. How many levels of classes are there/will there be? My high school was a bit different because it was designated as a "Science and Technology" school, so I don't know how normal schools were set up.

From reading the posts, I still think NCLB is a good thing, but it probably won't fix many of the problems. I think the whole education system needs to federalized and completely overhauled. If we're going to blame the fed on the education problems, maybe they should be the ones in control.
 

Spoiled

Active Member
Goes special people class (retard)
Community Based
Standard
CM
Honors
AP

(some classes arent offered in honors just CM or AP)
 
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czygvtwkr

Guest
I agree, not everyone should go to college.

Most AP classes when I was in HS (class of 92) were a waste because I found many colleges didnt accept the test for credit anyway. The class in college was just a freshman level class anyway and is actually easier in college than the AP class in HS.

I took an electronics class at CSM in Leonardtown and in my opinion half of the students should not even be in college, let alone in an electronics class.

In grad school I use to teach freshman and sophomore classes, so I know a fair amount judging a persons capabilities in such a setting.

There is no shame in going to a tech school, there is good money in skills like welding, automotive technician, and what ever else a votech school has to offer.
 

ylexot

Super Genius
Originally posted by Spoiled
Goes special people class (retard)
Community Based
Standard
CM
Honors
AP

(some classes arent offered in honors just CM or AP)
Wow! That's a lot of levels!

Best I can remember in my school (which was split between the local kids and the S&T kids) was that on the local side, there was standard and remedial. The S&T side was pretty much fixed (including several AP classes), but you could choose between regular and AP for English and History. So, basically, there were three levels. The local kids could also take the AP classes, but I don't remember that being pushed at all (not like you are saying). I guess when the school is a S&T school, they have a lot of students taking AP classes by default. Oh, and the "special people" went to a specialized school.

I think three levels is plenty. It's probably good that St Mary's gets rid of one or two of the five (non-special) levels.
 

Spoiled

Active Member
Originally posted by ylexot
Wow! That's a lot of levels!

Best I can remember in my school (which was split between the local kids and the S&T kids) was that on the local side, there was standard and remedial. The S&T side was pretty much fixed (including several AP classes), but you could choose between regular and AP for English and History. So, basically, there were three levels. The local kids could also take the AP classes, but I don't remember that being pushed at all (not like you are saying). I guess when the school is a S&T school, they have a lot of students taking AP classes by default. Oh, and the "special people" went to a specialized school.

I think three levels is plenty. It's probably good that St Mary's gets rid of one or two of the five (non-special) levels.
well most classes are either AP or honors, they didnt have both honors and AP...
 

Nickel

curiouser and curiouser
Originally posted by Spoiled
Well i lied, im going to start with the rant... First off the schools push so hard for kids to enroll in the AP (advanced placement classes, if you pass the test you get a college credit). That would be great and all if all the kids that do enroll should have been there, if they shouldnt have been there then they slow the class down... Yet the school still looks good because they have more kids in these AP classes... Now i have never seen the numbers published anywhere but im willing to bet less than 1/3 people pass the AP tests at the end of the year, which the classes are suposed to prepare you for....
I don't know about all schools, but at my high school you couldn't just enroll in AP classes. For history and science, you had to pass a test, and just passing didn't get you in, only the top 20 passing scores got put in the class. For English and Art, you had to be nominated by your previous teacher, i.e. my junior year english teacher nominated me, and I took AP my senior year....I don't think schools would just let anyone in.
 

Spoiled

Active Member
Originally posted by Nickel
I don't know about all schools, but at my high school you couldn't just enroll in AP classes. For history and science, you had to pass a test, and just passing didn't get you in, only the top 20 passing scores got put in the class. For English and Art, you had to be nominated by your previous teacher, i.e. my junior year english teacher nominated me, and I took AP my senior year....I don't think schools would just let anyone in.
You said "I wanna be in an AP class" your counselor looked at your grades and says "awesome" *puts annother tally next to the AP people list*
 
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