Obama Memorial Day Speech

[Bruzilla]

Gateway Pundit: Zombie Time!... Obama Sees Dead People at New Mexico Speech (Video)

I was busy playing on the S.S. Bruzilla yesterday and missed this speech, but Obama flubbed a line at the start of it so it's making all the rounds of the conservative blogs where folks are all thrilled to hear Obama say something stupid... as if McCain hasn't been tripping on his tongue for weeks,

Aside from the gaffe, I found this speech very interesting for two reasons. The first is that Obama says, honestly, that there is no way that he can know the pain of serving in the military, being in battle, losing a loved one, etc., which is a contradition of Clinton Political Rule #1 - Feel Their Pain. Hillary would be up there saying how she understands how people feel (even though she doesn't) and Bill would be biting that lip and saying it. So, it'll be interesting to see how this dynamic plays out. Which is better - "I feel your pain" or "there's no way I can feel your pain".

The second interesting item was his pledge to bring home "all the POWs and MIAs". This is the first time I have heard a Prez nominee mention bringing home POWs in a very long time. This has to be a direct shot at McCain who was one of the guys pushing for closing down the hunt for POWs and calling for normalizing relations with Vietnam. This should be another interesting dynamic to watch.

 

[theArtistFormerlyKnownAs]

Gateway Pundit: Zombie Time!... Obama Sees Dead People at New Mexico Speech (Video)

I was busy playing on the S.S. Bruzilla yesterday and missed this speech, but Obama flubbed a line at the start of it so it's making all the rounds of the conservative blogs where folks are all thrilled to hear Obama say something stupid... as if McCain hasn't been tripping on his tongue for weeks,

Aside from the gaffe, I found this speech very interesting for two reasons. The first is that Obama says, honestly, that there is no way that he can know the pain of serving in the military, being in battle, losing a loved one, etc., which is a contradition of Clinton Political Rule #1 - Feel Their Pain. Hillary would be up there saying how she understands how people feel (even though she doesn't) and Bill would be biting that lip and saying it. So, it'll be interesting to see how this dynamic plays out. Which is better - "I feel your pain" or "there's no way I can feel your pain".

The second interesting item was his pledge to bring home "all the POWs and MIAs". This is the first time I have heard a Prez nominee mention bringing home POWs in a very long time. This has to be a direct shot at McCain who was one of the guys pushing for closing down the hunt for POWs and calling for normalizing relations with Vietnam. This should be another interesting dynamic to watch.

They are MIA for a reason...they cannot be found, so how is it we are bringing them home? Same with the POWs...if there was a reasonable way to rescue them, it is done. Now its time to check out the link (for me) because from your input, it is apparent that Obama is talking out his ass again.

 

[Bruzilla]

They are MIA for a reason...they cannot be found, so how is it we are bringing them home? Same with the POWs...if there was a reasonable way to rescue them, it is done. Now its time to check out the link (for me) because from your input, it is apparent that Obama is talking out his ass again.

MIAs have always been an issue as we can negotiate with countries to send search teams to combat areas or crash sites and recover remains, so his call for bringing MIAs home was nothing new. But the mention of POWs is a whole different matter. There was lots of allegations in the 1980s about POWs from Vietnam and Korea being incarcerated in those countries and the Soviet Union or China. There was call after call for government action to get these men back, and aside from giving Hollywood movie ideas they got nowhere because some politicians actively squelched these efforts... McCain being one of them. McCain said that all these reports of POWs were false... that everyone was home, and that there was no reason to keep making this an issue.

 

[vraiblonde]

McCain said that all these reports of POWs were false... that everyone was home, and that there was no reason to keep making this an issue.

How do you know that's not the case?

At this point, they'd have been there for almost 40 years. What purpose would it serve for for those countries to hold a prisoner that long?

 

[Larry Gude]

The point...

How do you know that's not the case?

At this point, they'd have been there for almost 40 years. What purpose would it serve for for those countries to hold a prisoner that long?

...is that the whole MIA thing is a very big deal and sore spot for lots of vets and their families because back when it really mattered, when they might still be alive, the government didn't bend over backwards to try and verify and look and demand as much as it might. So, this is a symbol, a way of keeping the memory of a lost loved one or comrade alive and also to not forget how the government maybe betrayed a trust.

So, for McCain to be saying 'it's over' when he came home and 2,500 others are MIA, it sticks in the craw of anyone wanting to keep the idea and the symbols and the memories alive.

 

[Bruzilla]

How do you know that's not the case?

At this point, they'd have been there for almost 40 years. What purpose would it serve for for those countries to hold a prisoner that long?

In all honesty I don't know that that isn't the case. What I do know is there were lots of credible reports back then. Could they be valid or false... how do you know unless you investigate them? Folks like McCain squelched even the investigations. Why would a guy who was a former POW do that? You would think he would have moved heaven and Earth if there was even the remotest chance that some of our guys were still being held.

To your second point, I've heard reports that a lot of our pilots were taken to the Soviet Union for interrogation on information about aircraft systems, crypto guys were taken, weapons specialists were taken, etc. If someone was found to have special intel value, they got shipped. There has never been an accounting of these men. We know they got captured, fellow POWs reported them having been shipped off to other countries, so what happened to them? It would sure be embarassing to the Soviets/Russians, Chinese, and others to acknowledge they had taken these men after decades of denying such action. Even if these men were killed after their interogations, I think the families would still like to have the remains returned. So they may not still be prisoners, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't pursue getting their remains back.

But the Russians, Chinese, and others are never going to admit that they illegally held these guys, and guys like McCain are going to take a lot of heat if it's ever revealed that these guys were still alive in camps when the pols were busy denying their situation.

 

[Bruzilla]

...is that the whole MIA thing is a very big deal and sore spot for lots of vets and their families because back when it really mattered, when they might still be alive, the government didn't bend over backwards to try and verify and look and demand as much as it might. So, this is a symbol, a way of keeping the memory of a lost loved one or comrade alive and also to not forget how the government maybe betrayed a trust.

So, for McCain to be saying 'it's over' when he came home and 2,500 others are MIA, it sticks in the craw of anyone wanting to keep the idea and the symbols and the memories alive.

I think it is more than a symbol. Even if the POWs who got shipped to Russia were killed decades ago, their families still want their remains repatriated back to the US.

 

[Larry Gude]

Ok...

I think it is more than a symbol. Even if the POWs who got shipped to Russia were killed decades ago, their families still want their remains repatriated back to the US.

...I certainly won't step into this as a point of contention; point is, it is important to a lot people who do not deserve the nation their loved one swore to defend to tell them to just 'get over it'. All the attention whoring that goes on in this nation, least we can do is be sympathetic to those that actually deserve the attention or at least the respect for their lose. These people wore the uniform.

 

[vraiblonde]

Why would a guy who was a former POW do that?

I don't know - why? Maybe he's a Russian spy and is trying to cover his bosses so he doesn't end up in the gulag?

To your second point, I've heard reports that a lot of our pilots were taken to the Soviet Union for interrogation on information about aircraft systems, crypto guys were taken, weapons specialists were taken, etc.

But that wouldn't do the Soviets any good now - anything a 70s era POW would know about US weapons would be obsolete at this point, wouldn't it?

Even if these men were killed after their interogations, I think the families would still like to have the remains returned.

It's highly doubtful that after almost 40 years there would be any remains to return. Not to put too fine a point on it, but we've seen mass graves in Iraq and Cambodia.

I'm not trying to be unsympathetic to families of MIA/POW, but at what point do you call it a day? I think we can safely say that these men are dead, after all this time. So what does Barack Obama propose to do about them? Bomb the Commies until they fess up? Would a left-liberal really do that?

 

[Mateo]

It is a sore spot.
I forget the title of the book , but back in the 90s, this book spoke of a number of American, British , French and other allied POWs in camps in eastern Europe following their liberation by Soviet forces who were never returned to their respective countries and instead were forced to accept soviet citizenship and shipped off to the cities of Siberia to "assist " in modernizing the SU. There were also a number of fliers shot down over soviet territory and soldiers kidnapped from west Berlin during the Cold War.
Another book spoke of a Vietnamese camp commander who told his charges that"we could keep you forever". In 1969, the Vietnamese released Spanish members of the French Foreign Legion who had been captured at Dien Ben Phu in '54.
The Vietnamese have always maintained that our captured service members were "war criminals" and hence not entitled to the protection of those who are termed Prisoners of War.
The reasons for their failure to return these men after the Geneva accords range from the above to the failure of Nixon and Kissinger to pay an "indemnity" for our "illegal(sic) war on the North Vietnames. What the truth is I will never know, but since we are having
"trade "relations with the country, I think it only proper that we get a full accounting, period, no if ands or buts.
I don't think Barack is the man for this, but I do think either Paul or Barr would be.

 

[Dougstermd]

How do you know that's not the case?

At this point, they'd have been there for almost 40 years. What purpose would it serve for for those countries to hold a prisoner that long?

Well that depends on your definition of a POW??? we have three civilians being held in columbia by Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia. they have been there 5 years I believe.


How is OBAMA HAMMA gona negotiate with the RAFC:shrug:

 

[Lenny]

Barry's promise is nothing more than a repeat of the Clintons' Pander Bear act in '92.

 

[ImnoMensa]

Obama makes a pledge to bring home all POW/MIA's ,and just how does he intend to do that? By talking? And what does he intend to do if Al Qaeda or whoever has these POW/MIA's tells him to go #### in his hat. Will he whine? Will he moan? Its plain he wont send any troops after them. We won't be there to search for their bodies. Does he really believe that terrorists will just pack them up and send them home after we leave. What happens if they send the bodies home minus their heads? What does Obama do then?

Obama doesnt know #### from Shinola and every time he opens his piehole he proves it.

 

[Bann]

How's about the "embellished" story about the uncle who helped liberate Jewish people from Auschwitz? (And his college edumacated self said "I had 'a' uncle...")

 

[Bann]

I don't know - why? Maybe he's a Russian spy and is trying to cover his bosses so he doesn't end up in the gulag?

Well, of course! That's it!

 

[Bann]

Barry's promise is nothing more than a repeat of the Clintons' Pander Bear act in '92.

Obama doesnt know #### from Shinola and every time he opens his piehole he proves it.

 

[Mateo]

I don't know - why? Maybe he's a Russian spy and is trying to cover his bosses so he doesn't end up in the gulag?


But that wouldn't do the Soviets any good now - anything a 70s era POW would know about US weapons would be obsolete at this point, wouldn't it?


It's highly doubtful that after almost 40 years there would be any remains to return. Not to put too fine a point on it, but we've seen mass graves in Iraq and Cambodia.

I'm not trying to be unsympathetic to families of MIA/POW, but at what point do you call it a day? I think we can safely say that these men are dead, after all this time. So what does Barack Obama propose to do about them? Bomb the Commies until they fess up? Would a left-liberal really do that?

Not to mention the NKVD massacre of the Polish Officer Corps in Katyn Forest.
So why would the Reds concern themselves with a "few" Americans ?

 

[ImnoMensa]

How's about the "embellished" story about the uncle who helped liberate Jewish people from Auschwitz? (And his college edumacated self said "I had 'a' uncle...")

From what I understand the story about his Uncle is a true story.

His Uncle was present when the camp at Buchenwald was liberated.

However B-rock got the camps mixed up and claimed he was present at Auschwitz. Too bad he didnt listen a little more carefully when his Uncle told the story. We dont hear much about Obama's white relatives and when we do he gets his story mixed up. I wonder how often he speaks to this Uncle.

 

[Bruzilla]

I don't know - why? Maybe he's a Russian spy and is trying to cover his bosses so he doesn't end up in the gulag?


But that wouldn't do the Soviets any good now - anything a 70s era POW would know about US weapons would be obsolete at this point, wouldn't it?


It's highly doubtful that after almost 40 years there would be any remains to return. Not to put too fine a point on it, but we've seen mass graves in Iraq and Cambodia.

I'm not trying to be unsympathetic to families of MIA/POW, but at what point do you call it a day? I think we can safely say that these men are dead, after all this time. So what does Barack Obama propose to do about them? Bomb the Commies until they fess up? Would a left-liberal really do that?

I doubt McCain is a Russian spy. I have heard lots of loony Manchurian Candidate theories about McCain going back to 2000, and I think they are pretty stupid. But, the truth is McCain has done four things since coming back as a POW: he put a lock on his service records and all records pertaining to his time as a POW, he was a player in the effort to squelch POW recovery efforts, he was a leader in the effort to normalize relations with Vietnam, and he has always seemed to get very uncomfortable when his POW time is discussed. Any of these on their own doesn't mean much, but together I can see one possibility. WARNING: THIS IS SPECULATION HERE! My guess is that the reports that McCain did a lot more than just sign confessions for the North Vietnemese are true. I think McCain has been worried for decades that the Vietnemese would reveal exactly what he did in the Hanoi Hilton, and that's why he squelched the POW hunts to protect the Vietnamese government from embarassment, he has lobbied on their behalf to get relations normalized, and why he gets so uncomfortable when he's asked about his POW time. I've met quite a few POWs, and they often get sad or angry (usually both) when you ask them about their time as a POW, but they are always proud of that they did and never get uncomfortable. McCain has a well-documented track record of taking care of himself first, and being willing to sacrifice anyone to get what he wants, so I don't see him being any different while a POW.

As to the 70's era question, these reports came in during the early 1980s. I doubt any of the guys who were sent to Russia, China, etc. would still be alive today. Their presence would be devastating to their relations with the US.

As to remains, often the only remains of pilots and others that have been located in Vietnam over the past decade have been small pieces of bones. But even that is something for their families.

At what point do you call it a day? I guess that answer depends on whether or not you have a loved one missing. As to what Obama would do, my guess is nothing. The POW issue has been off the radar for close to 20 years, and now Obama brings it up, so my guess is he's going to use these guys as a hammer to bop McCain in the head with. What I am most interested in will be McCain's response. McCain got a free pass on the POW issue in 2000 when he was the darling of the MSM. That status is gone now, so I'm hoping that this time around, when he offers blanket denials of everything, some reporters will actually start digging and uncover what really happened in the Hanoi Hilton. They may find that things happened exactly like McCain said, but he's acting the way he is for a reason, and I would like to know for sure what that reason is.

 

[Bruzilla]

Well that depends on your definition of a POW??? we have three civilians being held in columbia by Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia. they have been there 5 years I believe.


How is OBAMA HAMMA gona negotiate with the RAFC:shrug:

Those aren't POWs, they are kidnapped Americans. But I think if Obama does raise the POW issue, it's fair to include these folks as well.