Obama's Iran Nuke Deal

[Larry Gude]

National interest is what we elect it to be, sadly.

No!


Wilson PROMISED American mothers their boys and husbands were NOT going to go fight and die in Europe's next civil war. Had he not made that promise, he would NOT have been elected!

FDR promised the same thing. He lied.

LBJ promised the same thing. HE lied.

Dubbya promised us a humble foreign policy. Now, to me, when someone has that sort of principle and tells me that's how they see things, it is NOT for the easy times. It is expressly for when a tough time comes; "here is what I will NOT do when the pressure is on...." So, as far as I am concerned, he lied.

 

[Gilligan]

While not 100% up on every conflict in modern times, I'd have to defer to someone who is. My claim was to do it as was done with Japan and Germany (and others). We re-wrote their governments, and kept troops there to ensure what we wrote was met. Still today.

Two very homogenous populations that were already particularly well suited for and accustomed to "central authority" and a common sense of community. About the exact opposite of most places in the mid-east that are largely tribal in every respect.

 

[Larry Gude]

We had grossly inaccurate expectations of being hailed as liberators from the oppressed. .

What we did wrong is this;

4th ID was supposed to come down from Turkey and seal everything off and PREVENT all that #### from going to Syria as well as prevent looting and civil unrest. That was the PLAN.

Turkey ####ed us and Bush didn't #### them back hard enough to make them cooperate. We should have STOPPED right then and there because plans are supposed to go to #### when the first round is fired; not BEFORE you even get to the battlefield.

Next, Rumsfeld COUNTED on the Iraqi army to be used to go, as organized units, and patrol and control their home towns. Bremmer ####ed that up.

Rumsfeld counted on Baaths to show us how to and make sure the trains ran on time. Bremmer ####ed that up, too.

Lastly, his name escapes me but little Shia pissants all over the country were allowed to set up shop INSTEAD of the military with Baath direction (our control) and that ignited local blood letting.

THAT'S what went wrong and all of it falls at the feet of the man sitting behind the desk.

 

[This_person]

No!


Wilson PROMISED American mothers their boys and husbands were NOT going to go fight and die in Europe's next civil war. Had he not made that promise, he would NOT have been elected!

FDR promised the same thing. He lied.

LBJ promised the same thing. HE lied.

Dubbya promised us a humble foreign policy. Now, to me, when someone has that sort of principle and tells me that's how they see things, it is NOT for the easy times. It is expressly for when a tough time comes; "here is what I will NOT do when the pressure is on...." So, as far as I am concerned, he lied.

Anyone who voted for FDR thinking he'd keep us out of that war was lying to themselves. Knowingly.

Anyone who elected LBJ in '64 thinking he'd keep us out of Viet Nam was lying to themselves. Knowingly. We had well over 20,000 troops there as "advisors" already, and he was stepping up many areas of attack.

Bush, to your credit, should have had the ability to keep us out. Afghanistan, sure. Iraq, shouldn't have been necessary. I'll give him that his attitude changed ("evolved" is the word Obama uses, I believe), but we elected him in 2004, so what he was doing was what we wanted. It didn't change from 2004 to 2005.

If you want to change it to "we lie to ourselves", I'll buy that. But, everyone knew what they were voting for, or had every reason to know.

 

[Larry Gude]

Anyone who voted for FDR thinking he'd keep us out of that war was lying to themselves. Knowingly.

Was I lying to my self when I started believing in Dubbya? Is he, Wilson, LBJ, none of them, responsible for their words?

 

[This_person]

What we did wrong is this;

4th ID was supposed to come down from Turkey and seal everything off and PREVENT all that #### from going to Syria as well as prevent looting and civil unrest. That was the PLAN.

Turkey ####ed us and Bush didn't #### them back hard enough to make them cooperate. We should have STOPPED right then and there because plans are supposed to go to #### when the first round is fired; not BEFORE you even get to the battlefield.

Next, Rumsfeld COUNTED on the Iraqi army to be used to go, as organized units, and patrol and control their home towns. Bremmer ####ed that up.

Rumsfeld counted on Baaths to show us how to and make sure the trains ran on time. Bremmer ####ed that up, too.

Lastly, his name escapes me but little Shia pissants all over the country were allowed to set up shop INSTEAD of the military with Baath direction (our control) and that ignited local blood letting.

THAT'S what went wrong and all of it falls at the feet of the man sitting behind the desk.

More detail, same thing. We are agreeing.

But, that doesn't change the views on Iran. We "allow" things by not taking action against them. Knowing where Iran is on building a bomb, not taking actions (which is what our "deal" effectively is - taking no action) allows them to have nuclear weapons, and the "deal" gives them the ability to openly and above-board sell oil and little weapons to gain bigger inter-continental weapons.

I do not find that to be in the interest of the US. But, we elect the foreign policy we want, I guess. So long as it is packaged in a slick-enough talking good-looking person who you want to have a beer with, or shoot hoops with.

 

[Gilligan]

Anyone who voted for FDR thinking he'd keep us out of that war was lying to themselves. Knowingly.

Anyone who elected LBJ in '64 thinking he'd keep us out of Viet Nam was lying to themselves. Knowingly.

The average voter has a penchant for doing that. And a big chunk of them are itching to prove that again...if not, Hillary wouldn't even have considered running.

 

[Larry Gude]

If you want to change it to "we lie to ourselves", I'll buy that. But, everyone knew what they were voting for, or had every reason to know.

Again, I can buy Bush leading us to war. I can't deal with the losing. Not after his dad let Norman and the LT's of Vietnam bury the ghosts of that war, and our enemies, in the sand.
With Rummy, Cheney, Powell, how in the flying #### did we go back to 1968???

 

[This_person]

Was I lying to my self when I started believing in Dubbya? Is he, Wilson, LBJ, none of them, responsible for their words?

In 2000, or 2004? If 2000, I don't think you were lying to yourself. I think he fully believed what he sold you as what he would be like. I believe a few months later, when tested in a very large way unlike most presidents, he changed. If you believed his 2000 rhetoric in 2004, then yeah, you were lying to yourself.

 

[Larry Gude]

The average voter has a penchant for doing that. And a big chunk of them are itching to prove that again...if not, Hillary wouldn't even have considered running.

Come on. And this doesn't apply to Jeb? Cruz? Rubio? heck, Rand? Would Sanders actually go kill Wall Street?

On the other hand, Trump is running around "...Driven by a little old lady only on Sundays, a very rich, successful, make American great little old lady with a very successful Great American Church and a very successful Trump air freshener, the best there is..." and people are lapping up that snake oil so, I guess you got me...

 

[This_person]

Again, I can buy Bush leading us to war. I can't deal with the losing. Not after his dad let Norman and the LT's of Vietnam bury the ghosts of that war, and our enemies, in the sand.
With Rummy, Cheney, Powell, how in the flying #### did we go back to 1968???

I think Powell was a huge part of that, don't you? I've never seen a C-JCOS/SecState less convinced in the ability of the American fighting forces. He was fully against every action we took, it seemed. I'm sure that was the perception of our enemies as well.

 

[Larry Gude]

In 2000, or 2004? If 2000, I don't think you were lying to yourself. I think he fully believed what he sold you as what he would be like. I believe a few months later, when tested in a very large way unlike most presidents, he changed. If you believed his 2000 rhetoric in 2004, then yeah, you were lying to yourself.

I held on until TARP was my last straw.

 

[Larry Gude]

I think Powell was a huge part of that, don't you? I've never seen a C-JCOS/SecState less convinced in the ability of the American fighting forces. He was fully against every action we took, it seemed. I'm sure that was the perception of our enemies as well.

His job at that time was Sec State. It was his responsibility to give advice from THAT chair. Not his old chair.

 

[This_person]

His job at that time was Sec State. It was his responsibility to give advice from THAT chair. Not his old chair.

I'm ok with a Sec State that has advice centered around the knowledge that America will #### you up if you cross her. I actually kind of prefer that, personally. We are the national equivalent of the carrot and the stick - we can provide either, depending on how you treat us. That's what I want our Sec State to act like.

Not like Powell, or Clinton, or Kerry.

 

[Larry Gude]

I'm ok with a Sec State that has advice centered around the knowledge that America will #### you up if you cross her. I actually kind of prefer that, personally. We are the national equivalent of the carrot and the stick - we can provide either, depending on how you treat us. That's what I want our Sec State to act like.

Not like Powell, or Clinton, or Kerry.

SecState = Diplomat.

Diplomacy is the art of delay. :shrug: SecState was not, is not problem. Potus was and is.

 

[stgislander]

I'm ok with a Sec State that has advice centered around the knowledge that America will #### you up if you cross her. I actually kind of prefer that, personally. We are the national equivalent of the carrot and the stick - we can provide either, depending on how you treat us. That's what I want our Sec State to act like.

Not like Powell, or Clinton, or Kerry.

Carrot??? We don't need no stinking carrot when we've got the world's biggest stick.

 

[littlelady]

Just some fun facts! I am not posting any of the articles. Y'all can view if you want to and make up your own minds. God Bless America.

http://allenbwest.com/2015/07/you-w...as-best-man-at-john-kerrys-daughters-wedding/

http://www.bing.com/search?q=kerry+...=-1&sk=&cvid=b9cbedce97bc4454b3f5f0b735337454

http://www.bing.com/search?q=soros+...=-1&sk=&cvid=cbbf8b4b161f4580b5ba0990813fd5f1

 

[LibertyBeacon]

Just some fun facts! I am not posting any of the articles. Y'all can view if you want to and make up your own minds. God Bless America.

http://allenbwest.com/2015/07/you-w...as-best-man-at-john-kerrys-daughters-wedding/

http://www.bing.com/search?q=kerry+...=-1&sk=&cvid=b9cbedce97bc4454b3f5f0b735337454

http://www.bing.com/search?q=soros+...=-1&sk=&cvid=cbbf8b4b161f4580b5ba0990813fd5f1

Allen West is a ####ing idiot. Can't be arsed to follow the click bait. Guess I'll never know.

Oh well.

 

[littlelady]

Allen West is a ####ing idiot. Can't be arsed to follow the click bait. Guess I'll never know.

Oh well.

But, that is not the only link I posted. I said you can choose to read, or not. You always talk about low info voters, so you are contradicting yourself. Never mind, I forgot you don't vote. You may not agree with me, but I am not a low info voter; I keep up daily with current events, and know what has and is going on in the World. Why, iyo, do you think West is a ####ing idiot?

P.S. I have voted for a few Dems along the way when I saw fit because I do know platforms before I go to the polls. Looking forward to your reply.

 

[Hijinx]

But, that is not the only link I posted. I said you can choose to read, or not. You always talk about low info voters, so you are contradicting yourself. Never mind, I forgot you don't vote. You may not agree with me, but I am not a low info voter; I keep up daily with current events, and know what has and is going on in the World. Why, iyo, do you think West is a ####ing idiot?

P.S. I have voted for a few Dems along the way when I saw fit because I do know platforms before I go to the polls. Looking forward to your reply.

Its a pretty good read Lady. I would bet Liberty read all of those links, but just couldn't help himself from making stupid remarks.
That's the kind of a-hole he is.

Those links explain a lot. IMO they explain why Obama picked Kerry. His association with Soros and his association with Iranians.
It's no wonder he got the deal through. The traitor had high friends in Iran to begin with.
Obama could not have picked a better man to sell us out, and get his deal.