Oprah the Baptist???

[Marie]

you just generalized everyone that takes different meanings from the bible.

Question the song Philadelphia Freedom by Elton John, is the meaning what you imagine it is when you hear it?

Or is it what Elton John meant when he wrote it, about Billy Jean King his friend making it big on that Tennis team?

The latter is called authorial intent thats the way scripture is to be interpruted.

The first: What does it mean to me, is called reader respones and thats how false teachings, like The Prosberity Gospel come into play. Someone didnt pratice good Hermaneutics and when a verse mentions laying on hands they interupted what it means today rather than what it meant back then to the culture. No-where near the same!

The point is there is only oneway to interprut scripture. There are some small things that arent worth squabling over like adiaphora ( Literally, "matters of indifference." Beliefs or practices which the sixteenth-century Reformers regarded as being tolerable, in that they were neither explicitly rejected nor stipulated by Scripture. For example, what ministers wore at church services was often regarded as a "matter of indifference." The concept is of importance in that it allowed the sixteenth-century reformers to adopt a pragmatic approach to many beliefs and practices, thus avoiding unnecessary confrontation.)

Matters of salvation are not one of those!

 

[JPC sr]

Deadbeat child support resister.

So which side are you on? Ive heard you profess to be a Christian now it seems as if your not.

I like all religions of all kinds.

I can be a Christian and Muslim and Hindu and Jew and others all at the same time.

That way really comes from "loving thy neighbor as thy self."

Also how dare you generalize all Christians with statements like that?

Maybe the hatred you see is comming from inside?

That is my mistake, because not "all" Christians are intolerant and bigoted and disrespectful of other religions.

Only some Christians are that sinful way.

 

[Xaquin44]

The first: What does it mean to me, is called reader respones and thats how false teachings, like The Prosberity Gospel come into play. Someone didnt pratice good Hermaneutics and when a verse mentions laying on hands they interupted what it means today rather than what it meant back then to the culture. No-where near the same!

The point is there is only oneway to interprut scripture. There are some small things that arent worth squabling over like adiaphora ( Literally, "matters of indifference." Beliefs or practices which the sixteenth-century Reformers regarded as being tolerable, in that they were neither explicitly rejected nor stipulated by Scripture. For example, what ministers wore at church services was often regarded as a "matter of indifference." The concept is of importance in that it allowed the sixteenth-century reformers to adopt a pragmatic approach to many beliefs and practices, thus avoiding unnecessary confrontation.)

Matters of salvation are not one of those!

Everyone has personal interpretations of the bible. In fact, unless you are a robot, personal interpretations are the only possible intrepretations you can get from it or any other thing.

If yours are similar to those of others, so be it.

When you first read through it, I'd wager my soul against your fiddle of gold that you found certain parts of it to be more enlightening or closer to the way you were feeling at the time.

I already see you talking about "matters of indifference". Indifferent to who?

certainly not the author, or else they would have been ommited. Already you have evidence of picking and choosing by your own admission.

or personal preference or interpretation. Call it what you will.

 

[Hessian]

Marie...

you have gone the extra mile, you have quoted, explained, and tried to define terms (crucial to any intelligent debate), Now...the NT is very clear about this:

Shake the dust off your feet with these characters: How many times did Paul tell his churches to show discernment and have no connection with those who distort the word. Both of your detracters show no openess, no willingness to understand the truthes you offer. Only mockery and nonsense.

Let the blind stumble along....don't waste any more of your time: Their real goal is to distort God's word and pull new Christians away from the faith.

Move on to people that are truly searching, you are dealing with the attitudes of Demas, Alexander the coppersmith, etc... you have completed the charge of Eph 5: 9-11

Thank you for your patient explanations.

 

[Xaquin44]

you have gone the extra mile, you have quoted, explained, and tried to define terms (crucial to any intelligent debate), Now...the NT is very clear about this:

Shake the dust off your feet with these characters: How many times did Paul tell his churches to show discernment and have no connection with those who distort the word. Both of your detracters show no openess, no willingness to understand the truthes you offer. Only mockery and nonsense.

Let the blind stumble along....don't waste any more of your time: Their real goal is to distort God's word and pull new Christians away from the faith.

Move on to people that are truly searching, you are dealing with the attitudes of Demas, Alexander the coppersmith, etc... you have completed the charge of Eph 5: 9-11

Thank you for your patient explanations.

I like how the 'blind' are the people open to different ideas on obtaining harmony through peaceful ways while apparently those who 'see' are forced to look in one direction.

makes sense ....

unless you think about it I guess.

 

[fredcaudle]

I've been a Baptist for 30+ years. We don't hate other christians or other denominations of like faith as the false propaganda that some spew from their typing on this site. We don't hate false religions like those who are ignorant spout on this site. We disagree with them - and that's not hate, that's reality. Some people live in non-reality that everybody is right and nobody is wrong and that there is no real truth and we all will be ok after death. Yeah, so tell the Patriots they really didn't loose the SuperBowl - they showed up so they too won and have the right to say so, right? And if anyone says the Patriots DID loose, then they must hate the Patriots, right?

If Oprah says she's a baptist, then that is what she calls herself. Since most of her spiritualism has been discussed on her show - she certainly does not practice baptist - but she has a right to call herself what she wants. I doubt she has been in a baptist church in last few years - if she has she would have tendered her membership as we don't believe or teach what she believes and teaches on her show and soon to be network. She would most definitely not want to identify with us "narrow minded" folk.

Many baptists will be in heaven and many baptists will be in hell. It's not religion - it's whether we have put our faith and trust in Jesus Christ and so bear evidence that we walk anew in Christ Jesus. Being "Baptist" is a way in which to practice corporate worship - Baptist is not "the" entry point into heaven, Christ Jesus is the entry point through the cross and resurrection.

 

[JPC sr]

Deadbeat child support resister.

I've been a Baptist for 30+ years. We don't hate other christians or other denominations of like faith as the false propaganda that some spew from their typing on this site. We don't hate false religions like those who are ignorant spout on this site. We disagree with them - and that's not hate, that's reality.

When any Christian or Christian denomination openly declares that other people (Christian or not) are going to burn in Hell for all eternity for having their different beliefs,

then that covers the term "hate" quite matter-of-factly even if you claim it is not hate.

 

[tommyjones]

Question the song Philadelphia Freedom by Elton John, is the meaning what you imagine it is when you hear it?

Or is it what Elton John meant when he wrote it, about Billy Jean King his friend making it big on that Tennis team?

The latter is called authorial intent thats the way scripture is to be interpruted.

The first: What does it mean to me, is called reader respones and thats how false teachings, like The Prosberity Gospel come into play. Someone didnt pratice good Hermaneutics and when a verse mentions laying on hands they interupted what it means today rather than what it meant back then to the culture. No-where near the same!

The point is there is only oneway to interprut scripture. There are some small things that arent worth squabling over like adiaphora ( Literally, "matters of indifference." Beliefs or practices which the sixteenth-century Reformers regarded as being tolerable, in that they were neither explicitly rejected nor stipulated by Scripture. For example, what ministers wore at church services was often regarded as a "matter of indifference." The concept is of importance in that it allowed the sixteenth-century reformers to adopt a pragmatic approach to many beliefs and practices, thus avoiding unnecessary confrontation.)

Matters of salvation are not one of those!

who told you what the original authors (men by the way) intended by their writings?

 

[Marie]

who told you what the original authors (men by the way) intended by their writings?

Well there a few ways, if you have a bible look in the margins and you well see related verses that add clairity to the intent of the verse your reading.

Then you can use commentaries to further assits you.

If you want to try something cool read a verse, look at the others recomended, write down what you think the verse is saying, than look at some comentaries to see if they agree.

I use an interliner both in Hebrew and Greek, so I can see the words in there own language. Than look at the verse in English below, than look up any questionable words in a Hebrew or a Greek dictionary.

For example: Flesh dosent always mean that which covers your bones, but wordly desires.

Then theres context, context, context
Who was the verse said to?
What was it like where they lived?
What where there customs?
You need to know this, was it under the old covenant or the new?

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

If you know what was going on at that time they were being perscuted it was written to a specific audiance. It dosent apply to you!
But the principle can, if your being perscuted for your faith and say loose a job or a promotion over being a christian.
Does it mean that Matt Hughes The extream fighter that uses that as his Mantra can beat every oponet it?
No of course not!

Heres another one, everyones favorite life verse.

Jeremiah 29:11-13.
This passage is one of the most popular devotional passages in America. And it is one of the most misused and misunderstood.
"For I know the plans I have for you”, declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.”

Its not written or intented for us, yet people all the time use it out of ignorance

God Does NOT Have a Plan For Your Life « Seeking First the Kingdom

But there are verses/things that do apply to everyone!
This is one of the things, secondary to the grace of God that makes reading the Bible soooo cool

Heres one I misssed the boat on. I got that its Gods Grace that saved us and nothing we can. What I missed is that only if Faith is given to us can we believe, we cant even do that are our own. I knew that man was spritually dead in sin and could do nothing on his own, but I missed the fact is that our faith is even given to us by God.

Awesome stuff if you understand it.
Ephesians 2:8-9 (King James Version)

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

I also believe that those men you are referring to wrote what the Holly Spirit put on there hearts to write and thats why so many authurs of so many books, over so many hundreds of years could all be put together to create a document that not only validates its self but is proven by history and science.

God is awesome!

 

[tommyjones]

Well there a few ways if you have a bible look in the margins and you well see related verse that add clairity to the intent of what your reading.
Then you can use commentaries to further assits you.

If you want to try something cool read a verse look at the others recomended write down what you think its saying than look at some comentaries to see if they agree.

I use an interliner both in Hebrew and Greek so I can see the words in there own language see the verse in english below than look up any questionale word in a hebrew or Greek dictionary.

For example: Flesh dosent always mean that which covers your bones, but wordly desires.

Then theres context, context, context
Who was the verse said to?
What was it like where they lived?
What where there customs?
You need to know this, was it under the old covenant or the knew?

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

If you know what was going on at that time they were being perscuted it was written to a specific audiance.It dosent apply to you!
But the principle can if your being perscuted for your faith and say loose a job or a promotion over being a christian.
Does it mean that Matt Hughes The extream fighter that uses that as his Mantra can beat every oponet it?
No of course not!

Heres anoter one everyone favorite life verse.

Jeremiah 29:11-13.
This passage is one of the most popular devotional passages in America. And it is one of the most misused and misunderstood.

“For I know the plans I have for you”, declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.”

Its not written or intented for us, yet people all the time use it out of ignorance

God Does NOT Have a Plan For Your Life « Seeking First the Kingdom

But there are things that do apply to everyone!
This is one of the things secondary to the grace of God that make reading the Bible soooo cool

Heres one I misssed the boat on. I got that its Gods Grace that saved us and nothing we can. What I missed is that only if Faith is given to us can we believe we cant even do that are our own I new that man was spritually dead and could do nothing on his own but I missed the fact is that our faith is given to us by God.
Awesome stuff if you understand it.
Ephesians 2:8-9 (King James Version)

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

I also believe that those men you are referring to wrote what the Holly Spirit put on there hearts to write and thats why so many authurs of so many books, over so many hundreds of years could all be put together to create a document that not only validates its self but is proven by history and science.

God is awesome!

​

well that kind of smacks in the face of the whole "only one way to interpret scripture" doesn't it?
I mean you are using the suggestions of a third party to help you come to your conclusions, aren't you? so you are getting an interpretaion of the scripture before you even read it all....... that is gonna seriously shape your opinion.

 

[Marie]

well that kind of smacks in the face of the whole "only one way to interpret scripture" doesn't it?
I mean you are using the suggestions of a third party to help you come to your conclusions, aren't you? so you are getting an interpretaion of the scripture before you even read it all....... that is gonna seriously shape your opinion.

The interpretation comes from other scripture?? Do you object to double checking yourself against the great theoloigans of all time to see if you understand correctly?

 

[fredcaudle]

When any Christian or Christian denomination openly declares that other people (Christian or not) are going to burn in Hell for all eternity for having their different beliefs,

then that covers the term "hate" quite matter-of-factly even if you claim it is not hate.

You don't believe in hell... remember?

So, you must completely agree with me or then you would be a hater. So not like you JPC -

 

[tommyjones]

The interpretation comes from other scripture?? Do you object to double checking yourself against the great theoloigans of all time to see if you understand correctly?

but but but yuo said there was only one way to interpret scriptures, if you are relying on the works of theologians, who didn't write the bible, then you are relying on third party interpretations. How does that equate to "only one way to interpret"?

 

[JPC sr]

Deadbeat child support resister.

You don't believe in hell... remember?

So, you must completely agree with me or then you would be a hater. So not like you JPC -

Hate does not have to be based on reality or the truth,

especially when it is religious hatred.

 

[fredcaudle]

Hate does not have to be based on reality or the truth,

especially when it is religious hatred.

You write: "Hate does not have to be based on reality or the truth"... guess telling people they are haters is not based on reality or truth either. Good try, though.

 

[JPC sr]

Deadbeat child support resister.

You write: "Hate does not have to be based on reality or the truth"... guess telling people they are haters is not based on reality or truth either. Good try, though.

Hate is more correctly based on hateful words and hateful actions.

From my perspective then truth and reality simply do not have any hate in them.

People that openly speak their hatred like cutting down other people's religions and telling (words) others that they are to burn in Hell for having different beliefs and cheering on the wars and agressions against others and justifying cruelties and tortures are all acts of hatred in words.

Those that actually do the hate are fueled by the hateful words.

 

[fredcaudle]

Hate is more correctly based on hateful words and hateful actions.

From my perspective then truth and reality simply do not have any hate in them.

People that openly speak their hatred like cutting down other people's religions and telling (words) others that they are to burn in Hell for having different beliefs and cheering on the wars and agressions against others and justifying cruelties and tortures are all acts of hatred in words.

Those that actually do the hate are fueled by the hateful words.

You write: "From my perspective then truth and reality simply do not have any hate in them" - we see something finally to agree upon. Since my perspective of belief is based on truth and reality - I simply do not have any hate in them (me).

Now your truth and reality is based on being able to do all things with no consequence. When someone like me comes along and says, "wait, there is consequence for that belief" then you cry out "hater!" Why? because your belief has been infringed upon.

Did you ever stop and realize that in the words you say of hate, you condemn yourself? After all, if you say one thing against my belief (or say I'm wrong to believe in hell or Jesus or dogma at large) then you are no longer tolerent of my belief and so are full of hate - - this according to your own words in many messages and threads.

It is better to say to one another, I can't go along with your way of thinking verses crying out "hater" everytime someone stands up for conviction of belief. When people say that to me, I move on and think no less of them - I just keep believing that which I hold to.

For those who say I hate (like you) because I disagree with non-Christ centered faiths I move on simply because I choose not to live my life in Disneyland as so many who preach tolerance but have no tolerance for my religious convictions.

 

[JPC sr]

Deadbeat child support resister.

You write: "From my perspective then truth and reality simply do not have any hate in them" - we see something finally to agree upon. Since my perspective of belief is based on truth and reality - I simply do not have any hate in them (me).

Now your truth and reality is based on being able to do all things with no consequence. When someone like me comes along and says, "wait, there is consequence for that belief" then you cry out "hater!" Why? because your belief has been infringed upon.

Did you ever stop and realize that in the words you say of hate, you condemn yourself? After all, if you say one thing against my belief (or say I'm wrong to believe in hell or Jesus or dogma at large) then you are no longer tolerent of my belief and so are full of hate - - this according to your own words in many messages and threads.

It is better to say to one another, I can't go along with your way of thinking verses crying out "hater" everytime someone stands up for conviction of belief. When people say that to me, I move on and think no less of them - I just keep believing that which I hold to.

For those who say I hate (like you) because I disagree with non-Christ centered faiths I move on simply because I choose not to live my life in Disneyland as so many who preach tolerance but have no tolerance for my religious convictions.

All of this is cool by me and I did not know that about you.

I grouped you in with the other self righteous posters on here based on your affront to my post.

I agree that truth and reality does not include hate of persons but there is the hate for wrong doing.

Hate the sin but not the sinner.

Love thy enemies because a person doing right will have enemies.

I hate violence, and I hate perversions, and hate lies and thieving, bigotry and etc.