Overcrowded schools?

[MMDad]

Since there is a perception among some that the St. Mary's county schools are overcrowded, I decided to do a little looking. What I found is interesting:

The elementary schools are over capacity by 101 students, middle schools under capacity by 178 students, and high schools over capacity by 109 students.

In the Great Mills area, the numbers are even more interesting. The elementary schools have 400 extra seats, the middle schools have 119 extra seats, and GMHS has 172 extra seats.

A new elementary school would give the county hundreds of unfilled seats. Since there are already extra seats at the middle school, there is no reason to build. The county builds high schools that hold 1,695 students, which would result in an excess capacity of 1,585 seats.

Now does anyone really think that school crowding is an issue in St. Mary's?

 

[Oz]

Since there is a perception among some that the St. Mary's county schools are overcrowded, I decided to do a little looking. What I found is interesting:

The elementary schools are over capacity by 101 students, middle schools under capacity by 178 students, and high schools over capacity by 109 students.

In the Great Mills area, the numbers are even more interesting. The elementary schools have 400 extra seats, the middle schools have 119 extra seats, and GMHS has 172 extra seats.

A new elementary school would give the county hundreds of unfilled seats. Since there are already extra seats at the middle school, there is no reason to build. The county builds high schools that hold 1,695 students, which would result in an excess capacity of 1,585 seats.

Now does anyone really think that school crowding is an issue in St. Mary's?

No - St. Mary's County Schools cannot become overcrowded because our Zoning Ordinance won't allow enough development for that to happen. Do the math.

 

[SamSpade]

Since there is a perception among some that the St. Mary's county schools are overcrowded, I decided to do a little looking. What I found is interesting:

The elementary schools are over capacity by 101 students, middle schools under capacity by 178 students, and high schools over capacity by 109 students.

In the Great Mills area, the numbers are even more interesting. The elementary schools have 400 extra seats, the middle schools have 119 extra seats, and GMHS has 172 extra seats.

A new elementary school would give the county hundreds of unfilled seats. Since there are already extra seats at the middle school, there is no reason to build. The county builds high schools that hold 1,695 students, which would result in an excess capacity of 1,585 seats.

Now does anyone really think that school crowding is an issue in St. Mary's?

No - provided that our student population NEVER EVER gets any bigger, we'll be just perfect.

You know - like the traffic over the bridge to Solomon's. Never gets any bigger.

 

[MMDad]

No - provided that our student population NEVER EVER gets any bigger, we'll be just perfect.

You know - like the traffic over the bridge to Solomon's. Never gets any bigger.

But there are people who believe that the schools are overcrowded now. Of course school construction should continue, but it is not true that schools are overcrowded now.

 

[SamSpade]

But there are people who believe that the schools are overcrowded now. Of course school construction should continue, but it is not true that schools are overcrowded now.

Do they follow up with what they mean by that? What does 'capacity' mean? If you think a teacher should have no more than 20 students, and the county says 30 - well, who's right? Quoting statistics in this instance might not address what people are really saying.

I mean, I hear you, but I had a couple of neighbors who were teachers, and they all thought there were too many in the schools they taught in - even if the county thought they were under capacity.

 

[Oz]

My class at Father Andrew White, back in the 70's and 80's had almost 40 kids in it.

Class size is a bureaucratic number used to justify educational budgets.

 

[janey83]

I tell you what, my senior class at GMHS had no worries about overcrowding -- a quarter of the class dropped out before graduation!

 

[BuddyLee]

I tell you what, my senior class at GMHS had no worries about overcrowding -- a quarter of the class dropped out before graduation!

That's one thing I never got. I few guys I would see from K-thru 12 and then they all the sudden decide to give up after thirteen years. Nice.

 

[Pete]

My nephew in GA. is nearly one of those losers.

 

[Ken King]

My nephew in GA. is nearly one of those losers.

Such a shame, didn't he just turn 26?

 

[Pete]

Such a shame, didn't he just turn 26?

Yes in February. I keep telling him "Why waste 7 years of your life in Elementary school, 7 years in middle school and 7 years in high school to quit 3 months away from finally graduating?"

 

[FromTexas]

Having seats has nothing to do with overcrowding. I can fill a building with people but there is a huge logistical effort to matching up people to the right mix of teachers for their grade w/ limited class size to each and different classes required for each group. Also, they must make it through the halls, have lockers, etc... at middle school/high school. Then there is fire codes to the rooms and class count restrictions by law.

Beyond that, a school needs to have capacity for the future because building schools and adding capacity is a very slow process. That means five years or more ahead of need you need to be planning the new school, getting the land, and getting ready to build. What is there now... even if all your numbers are accurate to what is available... is nothing compared to the way the student age group can grow over five years in a booming area.

 

[MMDad]

Having seats has nothing to do with overcrowding. I can fill a building with people but there is a huge logistical effort to matching up people to the right mix of teachers for their grade w/ limited class size to each and different classes required for each group. Also, they must make it through the halls, have lockers, etc... at middle school/high school. Then there is fire codes to the rooms and class count restrictions by law.

Beyond that, a school needs to have capacity for the future because building schools and adding capacity is a very slow process. That means five years or more ahead of need you need to be planning the new school, getting the land, and getting ready to build. What is there now... even if all your numbers are accurate to what is available... is nothing compared to the way the student age group can grow over five years in a booming area.

I never said there isn't a reason to continue the planning and building. All I'm saying is that as of today, there is not an overcrowding problem. That could easily change in the future.

 

[Bruzilla]

When my oldest child started at Choticon HS, we went there for an orientation and they had pictures of all the graduating classes on the wall. I had always thought that class sizes were growing over the years, but a quick count of noses in a couple of the pictures from years before showed more kids in the class than the current class. Also at about that time I was talking to my parents, who went through school together, and they told me most of their classes had 30-40 students in them. I sure would like to know what they put in the water back in the 1930s and 1940s that made teachers with no computers or other technologies able to teach the basics to kids so much better than teachers can today.

 

[FromTexas]

When my oldest child started at Choticon HS, we went there for an orientation and they had pictures of all the graduating classes on the wall. I had always thought that class sizes were growing over the years, but a quick count of noses in a couple of the pictures from years before showed more kids in the class than the current class. Also at about that time I was talking to my parents, who went through school together, and they told me most of their classes had 30-40 students in them. I sure would like to know what they put in the water back in the 1930s and 1940s that made teachers with no computers or other technologies able to teach the basics to kids so much better than teachers can today.

How about because the kids are different, the teachers have been handcuffed by civil groups, and they have little support from a good number of the parents?

Don't get me wrong... there are bad teachers, too. There are also a lot of bad parents. There is also a culture of immediate gratification among our youth where nothing should be worked for and they should just be given what they want. On top of all that, the teachers are limited in what they can do to control a student and the students have become bright enough to realize it (and the parents aren't picking up the discipline slack at home).

 

[kom526]

I sure would like to know what they put in the water back in the 1930s and 1940s that made teachers with no computers or other technologies able to teach the basics to kids so much better than teachers can today.

FT summed it up pretty good, kids are different now. When your folks and you and even myself went to school, we had a little thing known as respect for our elders. Respect and the fear of an azz whipping.

As far as overcrowding, I think some people look at the student to teacher ratio and if it isn't what they think it should be then the school is overcrowded. that sort of makes sense, right?

 

[2ndAmendment]

FT summed it up pretty good, kids are different now. When your folks and you and even myself went to school, we had a little thing known as respect for our elders. Respect and the fear of an azz whipping.

Thank you Social Services.

As far as overcrowding, I think some people look at the student to teacher ratio and if it isn't what they think it should be then the school is overcrowded. that sort of makes sense, right?

Thank you NEA.

 

[Cletus_Vandam]

You need to look at capacity at each school, not across the county or at the entire elementary, middle or high school level. Sure they may be a lot of seats at Ridge or at Spring Ridge Middle School. But look at where the developers want to build the 3, 4 and 500 home subdivisions... In the central and north ends of the County.

Wildewood is pushing for a ton more homes, Leonardtown itself is busting at the seams and I know of three major developments planned within the city limits.

Sure redistricting would address a small percentage, but how many Breton Bay parents would stand still for their kids going to anything other than Leonardtown Elementary, Leonardtown Middle and Leonardtown High??? You can't take a child who lives in the Leonardtown area and toss them on a bus and drive them to Ridge because Leonardtown is crowded and there are seats at Ridge. There are restrictions on the length of time that a student can be on a bus.

Leonardtown High School was designed at 1675, it's at around 1900 right now. The State of Maryland will only fund schools when the capacity is justified at that point in time. In other words before a new school can be approved at the State level, the County has to be able to fill that school now. Take into consideration the two to three years of design, and two years construction, you have four to five years before that "new" school is occupied. All the while growth in the County has continued for that period of time. That's why you can drive by the newly renovated schools and see classroom trailers. Esperanza Middle School is one example.

Is there really anyone out there that doesn't think the schools are over-crowded? I guess the APF folks are all leading a conspiracy against the home builders and developers in the county....

 

[Bustem' Down]

Overcrowding.....


It's because of all that damn child support ya'll are paying, right JPC?
Giving those kids school supplies and clothes....

It just makes me sick!

 

[Makavide]

Since there is a perception among some that the St. Mary's county schools are overcrowded, I decided to do a little looking. What I found is interesting:

The elementary schools are over capacity by 101 students, middle schools under capacity by 178 students, and high schools over capacity by 109 students.

In the Great Mills area, the numbers are even more interesting. The elementary schools have 400 extra seats, the middle schools have 119 extra seats, and GMHS has 172 extra seats.

A new elementary school would give the county hundreds of unfilled seats. Since there are already extra seats at the middle school, there is no reason to build. The county builds high schools that hold 1,695 students, which would result in an excess capacity of 1,585 seats.

Now does anyone really think that school crowding is an issue in St. Mary's?

Do these numbers take into account that most schools use "portable" classrooms? These portables do add to the overall capacity, but they were added because the schools were getting over crowded and a quick fix was to add trailors.