Penn State: The cover up continues...

[Larry Gude]

...in conversation this morning about the removal of Joe Pa's statue, this point was made; not only did Paterno do enormous good for that school and a great many young men but, removing the statue takes away the reminder of not just that good he did over so many years but, and perhaps worse, it removes the reminder that even great men can do wrong. So, we came to the conclusion that the statue should have stayed and that the school, in removing it is, basically, doing what Paterno did when faced with a difficult problem; just hide it.

That statue would do far more good to be a constant reminder of that uncomfortable reality about man; hand in hand with our potential for excellence, we are not perfect, none of us, and even those we revere as among our best are fallible. As bad as it is that Paterno essentially allowed a bunch of boys to be molested, it, in effect, serves that basic wrong, the antiseptic idea of greatness, that got Penn State into this mess to begin with.

So, is it more likely to never happen again WITH or without the statue and other reminders? I say the statue should have stayed. Clearly. That it made people uncomfortable is all to the long term good.

 

[EmptyTimCup]

so there should be Statues of Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, in there respective host countries :shrug:

 

[Larry Gude]

so there should be Statues of Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, in there respective host countries :shrug:

Yeah. Joe Pa = Mass murderer.


This is the sort of silliness that always makes have intelligent conversation challenging.

 

[jetmonkey]

I want a statue of Lefty at Maryland

 

[vraiblonde]

so there should be Statues of Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, in there respective host countries :shrug:

their

 

[Baja28]

Yeah. Joe Pa = Mass murderer.

This is the sort of silliness that always makes have intelligent conversation challenging.

Not so silly. Child abuse, specifically raping young boys, I consider just as heinous as murder.

 

[Larry Gude]

Not so silly. Child abuse, specifically raping young boys, I consider just as heinous as murder.

By who? I would FAR prefer my child was molested than killed.

 

[warneckutz]

Wirelessly posted

so there should be Statues of Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, in there respective host countries :shrug:

their

:Hankism:

 

[Baja28]

By who? I would FAR prefer my child was molested than killed.

I'll give you that but the crime is still just as heinous. Leaving a statue to remember what he allowed? Nuts man, just nuts!

And now in the aftermath when a family walks by the statue, no one thinks about great football, they think about molested children. The story is too big.

 

[xobxdoc]

...in conversation this morning about the removal of Joe Pa's statue, this point was made; not only did Paterno do enormous good for that school and a great many young men but, removing the statue takes away the reminder of not just that good he did over so many years but, and perhaps worse, it removes the reminder that even great men can do wrong. So, we came to the conclusion that the statue should have stayed and that the school, in removing it is, basically, doing what Paterno did when faced with a difficult problem; just hide it.

That statue would do far more good to be a constant reminder of that uncomfortable reality about man; hand in hand with our potential for excellence, we are not perfect, none of us, and even those we revere as among our best are fallible. As bad as it is that Paterno essentially allowed a bunch of boys to be molested, it, in effect, serves that basic wrong, the antiseptic idea of greatness, that got Penn State into this mess to begin with.

So, is it more likely to never happen again WITH or without the statue and other reminders? I say the statue should have stayed. Clearly. That it made people uncomfortable is all to the long term good.

So they should replace it with a statue of Sandusky.

 

[Larry Gude]

So they should replace it with a statue of Sandusky.

I don't see why. I would think we are served better with reminders of great men who had terrible failings rather than a reminder of a perpetrator.

Care to elaborate?

 

[Larry Gude]

I'll give you that but the crime is still just as heinous. .

I have NO clue how you can reasonably mean that. None.

 

[vraiblonde]

Just a reminder: Paterno didn't molest any children. At least not so far as we know, unless new information has come out that I haven't been paying attention to. Not sure why they want to remove the statue. My ASSumption is that it was put up in the first place because he was such a great football coach. What does this scandal have to do with Paterno's football wins?

 

[Larry Gude]

Leaving a statue to remember what he allowed? Nuts man, just nuts!

And now in the aftermath when a family walks by the statue, no one thinks about great football, they think about molested children. The story is too big.

You make my point. Had we thought less about football in the first place, not put it on such a pedestal, then, there would have been far less pressure by so many people in high, responsible positions to try and hide the crimes that they then became complicit in.

Now, we just hide it all. Pretend it never happened. Nothing to see here. Which was the problem in the first place.

 

[Larry Gude]

Just a reminder: Paterno didn't molest any children. At least not so far as we know, unless new information has come out that I haven't been paying attention to. Not sure why they want to remove the statue. My ASSumption is that it was put up in the first place because he was such a great football coach. What does this scandal have to do with Paterno's football wins?

Joe's crime is that he did know Sandusky was molesting kids and he tried to hide it and he denied knowing anything about it. He was complicit in it continuing.

That's why I say keep the statue; he was a great coach who did a lot of good for the school and a great many young men. He was also human and fallible.

I think THAT is a message worth reflecting on EVERY time someone looks at his statue.

 

[Baja28]

I have NO clue how you can reasonably mean that. None.

I rank child molestation right up there with murder. Penalty should be the same for both.

 

[vraiblonde]

I would think we are served better with reminders of great men who had terrible failings rather than a reminder of a perpetrator.

Do you really think a bunch of mush headed college kids are going to look at that statue and go, "Gee, great men can have moral failings. I'm feeling so enlightened"?

To me one thing has nothing to do with the other.

 

[glhs837]

Sorry Larry, we as a society generally don't use statues are reminders of those who committed evil deeds, no matter the scale. We use them to commemorate those who fought against them. It's not covering up anything, its removing the sign of public adulation, saying that his legacy isn't his incredible record, but instead his silence while boys lives were destroyed.

 

[Baja28]

Just a reminder: Paterno didn't molest any children. At least not so far as we know, unless new information has come out that I haven't been paying attention to. Not sure why they want to remove the statue. My ASSumption is that it was put up in the first place because he was such a great football coach. What does this scandal have to do with Paterno's football wins?

All of the good that Joe did is now negated by the fact that he allowed and condoned child molestation. Anyone who does that does not deserve a statue.

 

[Larry Gude]

Do you really think a bunch of mush headed college kids are going to look at that statue and go, "Gee, great men can have moral failings. I'm feeling so enlightened"?

To me one thing has nothing to do with the other.

To me, it's not about college kids. They are there to learn. They don't build stadiums or run football or science programs. Adults do and adults, teachers, a university, in my view, has the responsibility of educating and, just as any philosophy class one might take, what you learn can take on deeper meaning over time. Like when you grow up and are helping to, say, run a football program and remember back to what was done in the past and what SHOULD have been done. Maybe it helps make some kid of today a stronger, better man tomorrow?

:shrug: