Penn State: The cover up continues...

[xobxdoc]

I don't see why. I would think we are served better with reminders of great men who had terrible failings rather than a reminder of a perpetrator.

Care to elaborate?

Apparently he wasn't so great.

 

[Baja28]

Joe's crime is that he did know Sandusky was molesting kids and he tried to hide it and he denied knowing anything about it. He was complicit in it continuing.

That's why I say keep the statue; he was a great coach who did a lot of good for the school and a great many young men. He was also human and fallible.

I think THAT is a message worth reflecting on EVERY time someone looks at his statue.

I'll give you that but the crime is still just as heinous. Leaving a statue to remember what he allowed? Nuts man, just nuts!

And now in the aftermath when a family walks by the statue, no one thinks about great football, they think about molested children. The story is too big.

^this^

 

[thurley42]

It's a good thing that a school like that would never twist an investigation to put a good portion of the blame on someone who was dead and couldn't refute the findings....

 

[Larry Gude]

All of the good that Joe did is now negated by the fact that he allowed and condoned child molestation. Anyone who does that does not deserve a statue.

So, only perfect people deserve statues?


Consider. Why do you suppose Paterno, and a WHOLE bunch of other people, including parents, turned their backs on this, huh?

Speculation;

Was Hoe molested as a boy and learned that, unlike being murdered, it is something that happens, you deal with it, move on and can have a great life?

Did Joe know, perhaps, that Sandusky was molested as a boy? Same kind of thing? Jerry overcame much, did much good but, had this dark secret thing?

These are not excuses. This is to say that these people were NOT Adolph Hitler or Joe Stalin. They did MUCH good for other people. MUCH. They also had terrible, very human failings. We all like to think that had we been there we would surely have blown the whistle, had people arrested, shot Sandusky out back and left him for the buzzards and some people probably would have.

However, right now, some kids are being molested by someone in a position of power and people around them know it and are struggling with what to do. Or, you can pretend that EVERYONE involved with this that facilitated it going on is as bad as a mass murderer and evil incarnate.

Leaving the statue is as much for those people, a very uncomfortable reminder that not just Joe failed. That is far too neat and tidy for my tastes.

Reminders are supposed to support good as well as discourage bad.

 

[MMM_donuts]

It's my understanding that they are putting the statue in storage as opposed to destroying it altogether. I would imagine it's because it is such a nice work of art and it does still represent the positive qualitites of the man. I'm sure a large part of their willingness to put it away also has to do with the increased chances of vandalism and campus safety, too. I think it's odd that you're focusing on the more negative aspect of the statue removal while asking other's to focus on the positive (hopeful) side of it.

 

[Larry Gude]

It's my understanding that they are putting the statue in storage as opposed to destroying it altogether. I would imagine it's because it is such a nice work of art and it does still represent the positive qualitites of the man. .

To hijack my own tread, it is one of the goofiest, worse looking statues I have ever seen. Just terrible. Makes Joe Pa look silly.

 

[MMM_donuts]

To hijack my own tread, it is one of the goofiest, worse looking statues I have ever seen. Just terrible. Makes Joe Pa look silly.

Right?! I think the same thing. And I can't help but wonder what they're going to do with it. Is it really going to stay in storage forever?

 

[Larry Gude]

Right?! I think the same thing. And I can't help but wonder what they're going to do with it. Is it really going to stay in storage forever?

What if Joe Pa had been trying for years to get rid of that stupid statue and this is the only thing he could think of that would work????

 

[xobxdoc]

To hijack my own tread, it is one of the goofiest, worse looking statues I have ever seen. Just terrible. Makes Joe Pa look silly.

Condoning the rape of little boys makes him look sillier, IMO.

 

[Larry Gude]

Condoning the rape of little boys makes him look sillier, IMO.

Got me there.

 

[Baja28]

So, only perfect people deserve statues?

Consider. Why do you suppose Paterno, and a WHOLE bunch of other people, including parents, turned their backs on this, huh?

Speculation;

Was Hoe molested as a boy and learned that, unlike being murdered, it is something that happens, you deal with it, move on and can have a great life?

Did Joe know, perhaps, that Sandusky was molested as a boy? Same kind of thing? Jerry overcame much, did much good but, had this dark secret thing?

These are not excuses. This is to say that these people were NOT Adolph Hitler or Joe Stalin. They did MUCH good for other people. MUCH. They also had terrible, very human failings. We all like to think that had we been there we would surely have blown the whistle, had people arrested, shot Sandusky out back and left him for the buzzards and some people probably would have.

However, right now, some kids are being molested by someone in a position of power and people around them know it and are struggling with what to do. Or, you can pretend that EVERYONE involved with this that facilitated it going on is as bad as a mass murderer and evil incarnate.

Leaving the statue is as much for those people, a very uncomfortable reminder that not just Joe failed. That is far too neat and tidy for my tastes.

Reminders are supposed to support good as well as discourage bad.

There are no perfect people in the world. There are plenty of people who did great things with statues that did not condone/allow child molestation. Joe Pa would have been one of those people had he not condoned child molestation.

 

[Gilligan]

It's a good thing that a school like that would never twist an investigation to put a good portion of the blame on someone who was dead and couldn't refute the findings....

It is a good thing..because nothing like that happened. The independent investigation and investigators were headed up by Louis Freeh. Paterno was not not the only school official excoriated in that report.

 

[EmptyTimCup]

This is the sort of silliness that always makes have intelligent conversation challenging.

and diddling boys is not as offensive as mass murders ....


should statues be erected to all the pedophiles - least we forget

 

[EmptyTimCup]

So, only perfect people deserve statues?

[clip]

These are not excuses. This is to say that these people were NOT Adolph Hitler or Joe Stalin. They did MUCH good for other people. MUCH. They also had terrible, very human failings.

Reminders are supposed to support good as well as discourage bad.

Mussolini made the trains run on time, in the end he was executed by communists ..... and hung on a meat hook in an ESSO Station ....

Death

Mussolini and his mistress Clara Petacci were stopped by communist partisans Valerio and Bellini and identified by the Political Commissar of the partisans' 52nd Garibaldi Brigade, Urbano Lazzaro, on 27 April 1945, near the village of Dongo (Lake Como), as they headed for Switzerland to board a plane to escape to Spain. During this time Claretta's brother posed as a Spanish consul.[127] Mussolini had been traveling with retreating German forces and was apprehended while attempting to escape recognition by wearing a German military uniform.[citation needed] After several unsuccessful attempts to take them to Como they were brought to Mezzegra. They spent their last night in the house of the De Maria family.

The next day, Mussolini and Petacci were both summarily executed, along with most of the members of their 15-man train, primarily ministers and officials of the Italian Social Republic. The shootings took place in the small village of Giulino di Mezzegra. According to the official version of events, the shootings were conducted by Colonnello Valerio, whose real name was Walter Audisio. Audisio was the communist partisan commander who was reportedly given the order to kill Mussolini by the National Liberation Committee. When Audisio entered the room where Mussolini and the other fascists were being held, he reportedly announced, "I have come to rescue you!... Do you have any weapons?" He then had them loaded into transports and driven a short distance. Audisio ordered, "Get down"; Petacci hugged Mussolini and refused to move away from him when they were taken to an empty space. Shots were fired and Petacci fell down. Just then Mussolini opened his jacket and screamed, "Shoot me in the chest!" Audisio complied and shot him in the chest. Mussolini fell but did not die and was breathing heavily. Audisio went near and he shot one more bullet in his chest. Mussolini's face looked as if he had significant pain. Audisio said to his driver, "Look at his face, the emotions on his face don't suit him."[citation needed] The other members of Mussolini's entourage were also executed before a firing squad later that same day towards nightfall

Mussolini's body

On 29 April 1945, the bodies of Mussolini, Petacci, and the other executed Fascists were loaded into a moving van and trucked south to Milan. There, at 3:00 am, they were dumped on the ground in the old Piazzale Loreto. The piazza had been renamed "Piazza Quindici Martiri" in honor of 15 anti-Fascists recently executed there.[128]

After being shot, kicked, and spat upon, the bodies were hung upside down on meathooks from the roof of an Esso gas station.[129] The bodies were then stoned by civilians from below. This was done both to discourage any Fascists from continuing the fight and as an act of revenge for the hanging of many partisans in the same place by Axis authorities. The corpse of the deposed leader became subject to ridicule and abuse. Fascist loyalist Achille Starace was captured and sentenced to death and then taken to the Piazzale Loreto and shown the body of Mussolini. Starace, who once said of Mussolini "He is a god,"[130] saluted what was left of his leader just before he was shot. The body of Starace was subsequently strung up next to the body of Mussolini.

did that make him a great man ......

 

[MMDad]

I don't see why. I would think we are served better with reminders of great men who had terrible failings rather than a reminder of a perpetrator.

Care to elaborate?

He wasn't a great man. He was human, just like the rest of us. Removing the statue shows that he has been taken off of his throne and demoted to the status of just another human with successes and failures.

If the statue was of an old, broken down sad Paterno, then yes it would be a reminder. But it was a celebration of him as unfallable and it deserved to go.

 

[Larry Gude]

Mussolini made the trains run on time, in the end he was executed by communists ..... and hung on a meat hook in an ESSO Station ....

did that make him a great man ......

Once again, a great football coach who let a cherished assistant and friend get away with molesting young boys is as bad as someone responsible for war and murder and destruction.

I don't get where you are coming from, at all.

 

[Larry Gude]

He wasn't a great man. He was human, .

Oh, yes he was. Both.

That's the point. You can be great but, we are still human; here's a reminder and a cautionary note.

 

[Larry Gude]

and diddling boys is not as offensive as mass murders ....


should statues be erected to all the pedophiles - least we forget

You are consistent, I'll give you that.

Paterno is not, was not accused of molesting anyone.

 

[thurley42]

It is a good thing..because nothing like that happened. The independent investigation and investigators were headed up by Louis Freeh. Paterno was not not the only school official excoriated in that report.

I'm not disputing anything you said, but dead men tell no tales, and can't refute anything said about them.

 

[EmptyTimCup]

You are consistent, I'll give you that.

Paterno is not, was not accused of molesting anyone.

your correct ...... he just covered it up

I am sure there are more than a couple statues to Sherman, and I am sure after the March to the Sea, more than a few Southerners would not approve of one in downtown Atlanta