Police State

[Novus Collectus]

Yeah and with so many no knock warrants these days - seems to be a favorite tactic - I'd be shooting @ anyone coming busting in my house all dressed in black not calling out Police ........... and with FMJ 7.62x54R I'd probably get 2 with the 1st shot

Same here. Hesitating before shooting a violent home invader can get you and your family murdered. If they are cops using a no-knock warrant, then I would be horrified of course, but since I don't break the law and there is no reason for the police to use a no-knock warrant on me, the odds will be the invader is out to kill me or my family, so I would shoot too.

 

[Dork]

This is another quote from the 1963 decision which was re-affirmed as recently as the mid 90s.
The person who wrote that Wikipedia page may have easily made an omission. It happens even with commercial encyclopedias using professional fact checkers.

I am getting the message here that you think it would be OK to shoot a police officer who entered your house, if you believe you did nothing wrong. Do you really believe it's OK to shoot just because you know you didn't violate any crime and you didn't hear them say Police?

Maybe they accidentally entered the wrong house. That happens. If you don't know who it is and you feel scared, should you shoot? Maybe someone lied and told the police you just stabbed their child. They get a warrant, come lock you up. You decide to shoot because you did nothing wrong. Isn't that the courts job to decide?

People like you make my stomach churn. Your knowledge of the law is impressive but your lack of common sense, willingness to tell people to shoot or resist the police is just morally wrong.

I am guessing you are a screwed up defense lawyer or just some lost liberal with a warped agenda!

 

[Novus Collectus]

...the guy in the video was none other than Maryland Attorney General at the time; Joe Curran. I wonder where he falls in hierarchy vs. the court of appeals?

I'm not sure where the argument in this thread lays, but, Maryland is hostile to the 2nd amendment. We prohibit the right to keep and bear. We put conditions on the use of deadly force to defend your life and liberty. Maryland requires you to retreat if possible. Maryland requires you to surrender property unless you fear serious bodily harm or death. If I am being beaten severely or my wife is being raped and you happen along you WILL be arrested if you use a firearm to protect me or her. You are not allowed, under Maryland law, to use deadly force, to use a firearm, to defend a stranger.

People always say things like 'better judged by 12 than carried by 6'. Well, the right to keep and bear arms is as clear and simple as it gets both by written word in the Constitution and by simple common sense of a free people which we are moving away from being.

We are a criminal friendly state.

Which video are you talking about? I have seen a letter posted where someone asked the AG's office this very question and they said you have a right to confront an invader of your home. But since you asked where the AG's office is in comparison to the Maryland Court of Appeals, well, you really have to ask? The Court of Appeals has the last word every time.

Also, defense of others is a complicated matter and is no where near as black and white as you describe. There is a common law defense for attacking someone who is attacking another if they were in a position to legally defend themself (for example, if they started the fight and they were losing, then you might get in trouble for getting involved trying to help them). In Maryland this may or may not be related to the citizen's arrest part of common law which you are allowed to conduct if you witness a felony here in MD.

Maryland is a free state still in many ways and I like our laws in this matter much more than in some states. In some states for instance, even if you are being harrased by a cop that is out of bounds of the law, you have to submit to an illegal arrest by law. Here in MD you do not.
In Maryland there is some instances you can defend yourself or others with lethal force outside your home which I wish was all instances instead of some, but it is comforting to know you can defend yourself after confronting an attacker in your home in MD (castle doctrine).

While you are right that Maryland does not allow by law defense of others, I believe you are innacurate if you don't say Maryland does not specifically allow defense of others outside one's own home, but since it is understood to be common law to allow for defense of others as I have read, there would have to be a law in Maryland to specifically disallow it to prevent it from being a defense.
So since it is not specifically allowed, one can be prosecuted for defense of others even if not convicted. The "stand your ground" law proposed in the GA would have specifically allowed for the defense of others as well as removing the responsibility to look for an avenue of safe retreat while in public (unless making a citizen's arrest of a felony as I understand it).

 

[AK-74me]

I am getting the message here that you think it would be OK to shoot a police officer who entered your house, if you believe you did nothing wrong. Do you really believe it's OK to shoot just because you know you didn't violate any crime and you didn't hear them say Police?

Maybe they accidentally entered the wrong house. That happens. If you don't know who it is and you feel scared, should you shoot? Maybe someone lied and told the police you just stabbed their child. They get a warrant, come lock you up. You decide to shoot because you did nothing wrong. Isn't that the courts job to decide?

People like you make my stomach churn. Your knowledge of the law is impressive but your lack of common sense, willingness to tell people to shoot or resist the police is just morally wrong.

I am guessing you are a screwed up defense lawyer or just some lost liberal with a warped agenda!

This is why "no knoock" warrants should only be used in the most extreme caes, and cops shouldn't dress up like ninja's with masks and what not. There have been several cases recently of no knock warrants gone wrong where the "police intel" was seriously lacking and they knock down the wrong door at 0500. How would expect a home homeowner to react to 4 or 5 guys busting down your door, while you're sleeping, wearing masks and carrying SBR's. Mean while you are Joe Upstanding citzen and in your mind the only thing this could be is a group of bad guys assualting your home and family.

 

[Larry Gude]

No...

If after veiwing the video you roll your eyes an go "psh, whatever, liberal pussy" do you still get the gun?

...you get shot.

Then, Joe Curran puts you on a black list and the weapons you already have are confiscated.

Then...

 

[Larry Gude]

I don't remember...

Me thinks that video was made by liberals for liberals. I haven't seen it but what exact verbage does it use?

Does it say that under MD law you are "required" to retreat or you have the "responsibility" to retreat?

...but we did all this in a thread a few years ago. I think Ken King found the exact wording? Search it maybe. In any event, retreating was not a suggestion.

 

[Novus Collectus]

I am getting the message here that you think it would be OK to shoot a police officer who entered your house, if you believe you did nothing wrong. Do you really believe it's OK to shoot just because you know you didn't violate any crime and you didn't hear them say Police?

I have a right to defend myself and my family in my own home from a violent attacker. Forced entry into my home is a violent attack on my dwelling that can be a deadly attack on me and my family. I will not hesitate plain and simple. If they are cops, then they should have at least announced themselves. The fact that I broke no laws does not mean they are not going to be the police, just that it is way more likely the invaders will be the murderous attackers I need to defend myself from. Not shooting because they "may" be the police can get me and my family massacred.
So yes, I believe it is OK for me to shoot a police officer who forced his way into my home unnanounced if I did not identify him in time.....and if the cop entered under "good faith" then he has the right to shoot me back too.
Dangerous overlap of the law in this state which is just another reason why I think no-knock warrants should be used only in extreme cases and rarely.

Maybe they accidentally entered the wrong house. That happens. If you don't know who it is and you feel scared, should you shoot? Maybe someone lied and told the police you just stabbed their child. They get a warrant, come lock you up. You decide to shoot because you did nothing wrong. Isn't that the courts job to decide?

Cops shoot innocent people on occasion, but they had just cause to do so many times. It is a sad overlap of the law where someone who is not breaking any law gets shot and killed by a police officer who had a lawful right to shoot for what he believed was defense of himself or others. My situation is no different than an officer lawfully shooting a person he believed to be a suspect grabbing for a black object from behind him even if it was just a wallet after the officer told them to freeze.
The protection of my house and my family is no different. It would be sad and a terrible thing if I shot the cops in a situation discussed above just like it would be devastating for an officer if they justifiable shot innocent man.

People like you make my stomach churn. Your knowledge of the law is impressive but your lack of common sense, willingness to tell people to shoot or resist the police is just morally wrong.

If a cop shot a man he told to freeze that then pulled out the black wallet in the dark, I would defend his actions completely. In this free society and with our laws we must take the good results with the bad. I tell no one to shoot the cops if they enter their house, I just state what is apparently legal and what I would do. Get it straight.

I am guessing you are a screwed up defense lawyer or just some lost liberal with a warped agenda!

I am no lawyer, never taken a law class, not even a college graduate (yet), and I am no expert in law in any form whatsoever.
I am however somewhat civic minded as a citizen of this state. We all should be civic minded. There is nothing liberal or conservative about being civic minded and knowing one's rights and the law.

 

[Larry Gude]

Best I can offer...

Which video are you talking about?

...is go by a local gun shop when they're not real busy and I am sure they'll play it for you, free of charge. Go by when they are busy and watch it while someone else is watching it.

In any event, the video, by the States Attorney's office, tells a prospective gun owner that they can NOT use deadly force UNLESS they both feel threat of serious bodily harm AND can not effectively retreat.

Also, they tell you you can not use deadly force or even display a firearm to get you to get back your property.

Maryland may not be the worst violator of the Constitution, but we're pretty bad. Go try and get a permit to carry a gun, another activity SPECIFICALLY protected in the Constitution.

Want a gun today? Forget it. You can protect yourself in a week or so if you pass a background check.

Want two guns this month? Only if you are approved by the state.

 

[Novus Collectus]

...is go by a local gun shop when they're not real busy and I am sure they'll play it for you, free of charge. Go by when they are busy and watch it while someone else is watching it.

I just watched it a little while ago....the latest version. You can watch it online now and get your certification that way: http://209.48.185.14/
The thing you should realize though is that not only is it possible you may have misuderstood what was said, but they may also have made a mistake themselves compiling the tape. That is why they have this disclaimer you must sign before taking the "course".

The material contained in this firearms safety training course shall not be used as a claim or defense in any civil or criminal action, nor should it be construed as legal advice of any kind. You should seek the advice of your own attorney if you have any questions about the civil or criminal consequences of owning or using a firearm.

But like I said they can make mistakes and the very first thing they say in the video is a mistake!! They say right off the bat that you may not "posses" a regulated firearm in MD unless you take the course, but the law says nothing of the sort. You have to take the course for someone to lawfully sell rent or transfer a regulated firarms to you. Here is what the law says:

Article - Public Safety

§ 5-134.
(a) This section supersedes any restriction that a local jurisdiction in the State imposes on the transfer by a private party of a regulated firearm, and the State preempts the right of any local jurisdiction to regulate the transfer of a regulated firearm.


(b) A dealer or other person may not sell, rent, or transfer a regulated firearm to a purchaser, lessee, or transferee who the dealer or other person knows or has reasonable cause to believe:....


..... (14) subject to subsection (c) of this section for a transaction under this subsection that is made on or after January 1, 2002, has not completed a certified firearms safety training course conducted free of charge by the Police Training Commission or that meets standards established by the Police Training Commission under § 3-207 of this article.

There is nothing that says people who previously owned a regulated firearm before 2002, or people who moved here from out of state with previoulsy owned regulated firearms must take the course to even "possess" their own regulated firearms.
They make mistakes in instructional videos and that is why you need to look at the actual law and/or court precedent for the details.

In any event, the video, by the States Attorney's office, tells a prospective gun owner that they can NOT use deadly force UNLESS they both feel threat of serious bodily harm AND can not effectively retreat.

But are you confusing in public with in the home? Did he explicitly mention in the home or even at all. How long ago did you see this video any way? Is it possible you went in with a preconcieved impression of the law and you thought he said something he did not?

Also, they tell you you can not use deadly force or even display a firearm to get you to get back your property.

There are a few states which allow the use of deadly force to recover some property, but as I understand it MD is definitly not one of them. There may an exception in extreme cases though such as a natural disaster and a looter was taking food which your family needs to survive a few more days possibly.

Maryland may not be the worst violator of the Constitution, but we're pretty bad. Go try and get a permit to carry a gun, another activity SPECIFICALLY protected in the Constitution.

Oh, I am with you on that one 100%. Maryland should be a shall issue state or have a Vermont type of carry law.

Want a gun today? Forget it. You can protect yourself in a week or so if you pass a background check.

The seven day wait is one of the stupidest laws I have ever seen.

Want two guns this month? Only if you are approved by the state.

I've got that approval.

 

[RadioPatrol]

Same here. Hesitating before shooting a violent home invader can get you and your family murdered. If they are cops using a no-knock warrant, then I would be horrified of course, but since I don't break the law and there is no reason for the police to use a no-knock warrant on me, the odds will be the invader is out to kill me or my family, so I would shoot too.

yeah and they have never NO-Knocked the wrong address either

 

[Novus Collectus]

Yeah and with so many no knock warrants these days - seems to be a favorite tactic - I'd be shooting @ anyone coming busting in my house all dressed in black not calling out Police ........... and with FMJ 7.62x54R I'd probably get 2 with the 1st shot

This happenned in South Carolina yesterday.

Updated: 6:47 p.m. ET Oct 24, 2007
SPARTANBURG, S.C. - Spartanburg County deputies said two home invasion robbers were shot early Tuesday morning by the homeowner they tried to burglarize. Deputies said that the men forced their way into the home on Harley Court about 4 a.m.

Lamont Dawkins, the homeowner, said that he heard glass break and someone kicking at his back door.

Dawkins told WYFF News 4 that the men were shouting that they were from the "Spartanburg County Police."

Deputies: Homeowner Shoots 2 Burglars - News - MSNBC.com

Criminals use the tactic of yelling "police". No knock warrants used excessively get people killed.
The 90 year old woman in Georgia last year that the criminal cops shot to death during an illegal no-knock warrant reportedly got her gun for the house because there were a bunch of home invasions in her neighborhood where the professional criminals were yelling "police" when they busted in the doors.