Presidential treason?

[Ken King]

(a little language mixing there!)




D day cost 5k not 50k.

I presume your '0' got stuck for a second there?

Normandy - Over 425,000 Allied and German troops were killed, wounded or went missing during the Battle of Normandy. This figure includes over 209,000 Allied casualties, with nearly 37,000 dead amongst the ground forces and a further 16,714 deaths amongst the Allied air forces. Of the Allied casualties, 83,045 were from 21st Army Group (British, Canadian and Polish ground forces), 125,847 from the US ground forces. The losses of the German forces during the Battle of Normandy can only be estimated. Roughly 200,000 German troops were killed or wounded. The Allies also captured 200,000 prisoners of war (not included in the 425,000 total, above). During the fighting around the Falaise Pocket (August 1944) alone, the Germans suffered losses of around 90,000, including prisoners.

 

[2ndAmendment]

...tell me how they read this:



Is there an interpretor handy? Is it me?

It's you.

 

[Larry Gude]

And that's crap too...

eople who know dick about what's going on to aid and abet the enemy? Fonda had to travel her azz thousands of miles to do the damage that Cindy Sheehan can do right from Crawford, TX thanks to satellite hookups, so there's really no difference between the two.

...Jane Fonda betrayed her nation. Cindy Sheehan is mourning her son. Fonda was on a self indulgent trip to feel good about herself and fill some misguided need to do something. Sheehan is a broken mother, desperately and pathetically casting about for some meaning, some way to deal with her loss.

Yes, they get used against our military goals in the same fashion but let us not pretend that using an enemies weaknesses, on the battlefield or at home, against them is something new.

One of the messy parts of freedom is, even when we don't know what we're talking about, we still can talk if we want to. If George Bush cannot effectively make the case for troops being in harms way, if he cannot defeat Cindy Sheehan or even Jane Fonda or more importantly, John Kerry, the Washington Post and Co, then he has NO business running the show; he's either wrong or not strong enough or smart enough to do the job.

I know why we are in Iraq and I can make the case all day every day and vaporize opposition arguments with facts and reason and passion but I am not the President. I can only do so much. I can't do HIS job of leading.

It's freedom and it can be frustrating and a mess and it beats the snot out of every and any thing man has ever tried as a form of government.

 

[Larry Gude]

I don't know to thank you...

It's you.

..for your help.


So I wont.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Normandy - Over 425,000 Allied and German troops were killed, wounded or went missing during the Battle of Normandy. This figure includes over 209,000 Allied casualties, with nearly 37,000 dead amongst the ground forces and a further 16,714 deaths amongst the Allied air forces. Of the Allied casualties, 83,045 were from 21st Army Group (British, Canadian and Polish ground forces), 125,847 from the US ground forces. The losses of the German forces during the Battle of Normandy can only be estimated. Roughly 200,000 German troops were killed or wounded. The Allies also captured 200,000 prisoners of war (not included in the 425,000 total, above). During the fighting around the Falaise Pocket (August 1944) alone, the Germans suffered losses of around 90,000, including prisoners.

Larry, Ken provided your interpretation.

 

[2ndAmendment]

..for your help.


So I wont.

OK. Just trying to bring a little levity into the thread.

 

[Larry Gude]

OK...you can't read either...

Normandy - Over 425,000 Allied and German troops were killed, wounded or went missing during the Battle of Normandy. This figure includes over 209,000 Allied casualties, with nearly 37,000 dead amongst the ground forces and a further 16,714 deaths amongst the Allied air forces. Of the Allied casualties, 83,045 were from 21st Army Group (British, Canadian and Polish ground forces), 125,847 from the US ground forces. The losses of the German forces during the Battle of Normandy can only be estimated. Roughly 200,000 German troops were killed or wounded. The Allies also captured 200,000 prisoners of war (not included in the 425,000 total, above). During the fighting around the Falaise Pocket (August 1944) alone, the Germans suffered losses of around 90,000, including prisoners.

He wrote:

D-Day went off on June 6, and despite a loss of over 50,000 more lives, is considered to be one of our greatest military success stories.

D-day...D D-A-Y.

There was no D day campaign. It was a single day. He didn't say the Normandy invasion or the opening phases of the invasion of France. He said D day.

 

[Larry Gude]

And you don't think my retort...

OK. Just trying to bring a little levity into the thread.

...was funny unless I stick a bunch or cartoon figures in it?

 

[Larry Gude]

He provided...

Larry, Ken provided your interpretation.

...a bunch of information covering a time period greater than D day.

 

[Ken King]

He wrote:



D-day...D D-A-Y.

There was no D day campaign. It was a single day. He didn't say the Normandy invasion or the opening phases of the invasion of France. He said D day.

D-Day - Total Allied casualties on D-Day are estimated at 10,000, including 2500 dead. British casualties on D-Day have been estimated at approximately 2700. The Canadians lost 946 casualties. The US forces lost 6603 men. Note that the casualty figures for smaller units do not always add up to equal these overall figures exactly, however (this simply reflects the problems of obtaining accurate casualty statistics).

Casualties on the British beaches were roughly 1000 on Gold Beach and the same number on Sword Beach. The remainder of the British losses were amongst the airborne troops: some 600 were killed or wounded, and 600 more were missing; 100 glider pilots also became casualties. The losses of 3rd Canadian Division at Juno Beach have been given as 340 killed, 574 wounded and 47 taken prisoner.

The breakdown of US casualties was 1465 dead, 3184 wounded, 1928 missing and 26 captured. Of the total US figure, 2499 casualties were from the US airborne troops (238 of them being deaths). The casualties at Utah Beach were relatively light: 197, including 60 missing. However, the US 1st and 29th Divisions together suffered around 2000 casualties at Omaha Beach.

 

[Larry Gude]

Lawyers...

D-Day - Total Allied casualties on D-Day are estimated at 10,000, including 2500 dead. British casualties on D-Day have been estimated at approximately 2700. The Canadians lost 946 casualties. The US forces lost 6603 men. Note that the casualty figures for smaller units do not always add up to equal these overall figures exactly, however (this simply reflects the problems of obtaining accurate casualty statistics).

Casualties on the British beaches were roughly 1000 on Gold Beach and the same number on Sword Beach. The remainder of the British losses were amongst the airborne troops: some 600 were killed or wounded, and 600 more were missing; 100 glider pilots also became casualties. The losses of 3rd Canadian Division at Juno Beach have been given as 340 killed, 574 wounded and 47 taken prisoner.

The breakdown of US casualties was 1465 dead, 3184 wounded, 1928 missing and 26 captured. Of the total US figure, 2499 casualties were from the US airborne troops (238 of them being deaths). The casualties at Utah Beach were relatively light: 197, including 60 missing. However, the US 1st and 29th Divisions together suffered around 2000 casualties at Omaha Beach.

...ask what time it is and you get a bunch of parts and no directions for building a clock.

And a bill.

 

[Ken King]

...ask what time it is and you get a bunch of parts and no directions for building a clock.

And a bill.

That would be an engineer not a lawyer. The lawyer would argue the lack of relevence of time in general, the irritation to the court and charge you double.

 

[Larry Gude]

So basically...

That would be an engineer not a lawyer. The lawyer would argue the lack of relevence of time in general, the irritation to the court and charge you double.

...you can do it all.

How are you on delivering flowers? I need a truck driver.

 

[Bruzilla]

...that is a classic case of why it is so necessary for us to speak out.

My fault? I support the right to free speach, to take exception if I choose, or someone else chooses, and a battlefield death is MY fault. How about this? How about you have your totalitarian state. You have your dictator and shut down the press, shut off protest, shoot Cindy Sheehan on site, OK?

Now, when you get done counting Hitlers and Stalins and Mussolinis and Mao, and, of late, Saddams, when you get done counting THEIR dead, you tell me how words and marches and protests killed a man in the field. You tell me how it is oh so much better for everyone to get in lockstep and you show me how they fared so much better than me and my expressed thoughts and words and the dead you wanna lay at my feet.

Wanna borrow an abacus?

As usual, you dash off to extremisms. Was the United States, during WWII, a police state? Were we the equivalent of a facist government? During WWII, people like Cindy Sheehan were arrested as seditionists for doing what she's doing. You might recall that we won that war, but there was a tremendous amount of suppression and filtering of information going to and coming from the US. It was a cost of winning the war that needed to be paid. Are we now the worse for it? I don't think so. Was all of the censoring of personal mail during WWII a violation of free speech? Yes, but operational security was deemed more important than personal freedom. Now we have electonic comminications that far eclipse the communications of the 1940s. During WWII we were concerned about someone discussing military operations or our intentions in a letter that might fall into enemy hands, now we have the ability to spoon-feed this information direct to a TV in the office of any enemy leader courtesy of CNN International and Sky News.

We are dealing with an enemy that places great importance on symbolism. When inclement weather marred a meeting between Jimmy Carter and the Shah of Iran, Muslim fundamentalists took that as a sign from Allah to move against the Shah. Can you imagine how they take the vision of Murtha sayign we need to quit fighting, or thousands of protesters marching in the streets? These folks don't see the thousands of Americans who support the war and who are against them, they only see what the news is showing them, and the message they get day in and day out is that they are winning.

We have lots of people (mostly Democrats) whining about how no one is making a sacrifice for this war, how this isn't really a war because no one is making a sacrifice, etc. Well, sacrifice during war time means more than rationing gas and driving less... it also means giving up the ability to encourage your enemy by exercising your right to free speech in front of satellite television.

Like I said... if you want to put freedom of speech ahead of operational security, if you want to put the ability to be a vocal "loyal opposition" ahead of denying the enemy intelligence on our intentions, that's just fine. Just don't whine about casualties or the length of the war because your priorities are enablers for those issues. You can't have it both ways.

 

[2ndAmendment]

...was funny unless I stick a bunch or cartoon figures in it?

I don't have a sense of humor. Just ask Sharon.

 

[Ken King]

...you can do it all.

How are you on delivering flowers? I need a truck driver.

Put a motor in it like those NASCAR boys did with the UPS Truck and I'll give it a whirl.

 

[Larry Gude]

That made me laugh...

As usual, you dash off to extremisms. Was the United States, during WWII, a police state? Were we the equivalent of a facist government? During WWII, people like Cindy Sheehan were arrested as seditionists for doing what she's doing. You might recall that we won that war, but there was a tremendous amount of suppression and filtering of information going to and coming from the US. It was a cost of winning the war that needed to be paid. Are we now the worse for it? I don't think so. Was all of the censoring of personal mail during WWII a violation of free speech? Yes, but operational security was deemed more important than personal freedom. Now we have electonic comminications that far eclipse the communications of the 1940s. During WWII we were concerned about someone discussing military operations or our intentions in a letter that might fall into enemy hands, now we have the ability to spoon-feed this information direct to a TV in the office of any enemy leader courtesy of CNN International and Sky News.

We are dealing with an enemy that places great importance on symbolism. When inclement weather marred a meeting between Jimmy Carter and the Shah of Iran, Muslim fundamentalists took that as a sign from Allah to move against the Shah. Can you imagine how they take the vision of Murtha saying we need to quit fighting, or thousands of protesters marching in the streets? These folks don't see the thousands of Americans who support the war and who are against them, they only see what the news is showing them, and the message they get day in and day out is that they are winning.

We have lots of people (mostly Democrats) whining about how no one is making a sacrifice for this war, how this isn't really a war because no one is making a sacrifice, etc. Well, sacrifice during war time means more than rationing gas and driving less... it also means giving up the ability to encourage your enemy by exercising your right to free speech in front of satellite television.

Like I said... if you want to put freedom of speech ahead of operational security, if you want to put the ability to be a vocal "loyal opposition" ahead of denying the enemy intelligence on our intentions, that's just fine. Just don't whine about casualties or the length of the war because your priorities are enablers for those issues. You can't have it both ways.

...the little emoticon thing. It flashed in my head you, down in sunny Florida, pulling your hair out, twirling in circles in frustration...

As a matter of fact, you could ask a few US citizens if we were a police state or not during WWII and the other stuff you mention was true to, BUT, BUT a FAR cry from the people over seas. I have NO problem with us doing what we gotta do in desperate times (see Lincoln v. Maryland 1861) but on the other hand Roosevelt killed 2,000 navy personnel at Pearl just as much if not more than Sheehan or Fonda did. He, as we now know, ran an incredibly extra constitutional government and it ain;t hard to argue he dragged us, a la Wilson, into war in Europe.

And I have ZERO problem with Bush's wire tapping. All he'll get from me is my super secret gerbera daisy recipe and some decent porn links. Hell, he might even learn a few things from my posts!

And quit calling me a whiner. If it was up to me, the neutrons would have been whipped out a LONG time ago. Jane Fonda and Cindy Sheehan ain't hurting anyone. Kerry might be. Kennedy might be and there are laws that, if they break them, their ass should be new mown.

My point stands; the President of the United States has in his power the ability to make a much more thorough case than he is to marginalize and neuter people like Sheehan and Moore and so on and he is not doing a very good job.

And another thing, like it or not, those Democrats and THEIR mind set and their reaction and THEIR words and polls and actions are a damn sight closer to killing a man in the field than I am by recognizing their right to make nonsensical arguments.

If Rep. Murtha is compromising opsec then lock his azz up. In no way does my recognition of their rights to complain limit the Presidents rights and prerogatives. Maybe he ought to lock his azz up. Moore too. Then, like Lincoln, he'll find he is hurting a good bit more than he is helping the cause.

If Bush is afraid to marginalize Sheehan and Co. AND they are compromising secrets and he still won't do anything about it, he's the wrong man for the job.

And you say I'm dashing off to extremes.

 

[Larry Gude]

You can put all the motor you want in it...

Put a motor in it like those NASCAR boys did with the UPS Truck and I'll give it a whirl.

...but there will still be 12,000 pounds of flowers in a vehicle with the aerodynamics of a 2 by 4.

I'd pay good money to that wreck.

BYOHelmet.

 

[Larry Gude]

Sharon...?

I don't have a sense of humor. Just ask Sharon.

...:shrug:

 

[2ndAmendment]

...:shrug:

That person in my life that corresponds to Vrai in yours. You know, the person that trys to keep you minding your ways that you wouldn't want to do without.