Raffie...whoda thunk it?

[Penn]

According to the "Mike and Mike" TV/radio show, on ESPN, the nation's sports writers are begining to hammer Raffi, for what they deem as a lame excuse, ie., he "unknowingly" took a banned substance.

Some are casting doubt as to whether he should now be considered for the Hall of Fame.

Until the whole story is known, isn't that a little harsh?

 

[Otter]

Sports talk radio is ALWAYS harsh, they turn molehills into mountains just for the sake of something to talk about. Greenie is a weenie that probably never played a sport, yet considers himself an expert. Its just like this board, someone screws up and there are forumites standing at the ready to crucify them, usually based on rumor and preconceived notions supplied by other forumites.

 

[Penn]

What no one seems to know, or they aren't saying yet, not even Raffi: what substance did he ingest?

 

[Larry Gude]

Folks...

...you should be surprised. Surprised he got caught, not that he was taking steroids.

First off, it is patently obvious that many, if not most, pro atheletes are using some sort of performance enhancement, by whatever name, that we would all consider cheating and have been for over a decade. For older guys like Bonds and Raffi, it's about bouncing back from minor injuries quicker. It's about hanging on to reflexes just a year or two more.

Diet and exercise are not some brand new panacea and dedication and discipline weren't invented in the 1990's. Look at these guys and what they're doing and look at their age.

Steroids, the chemistry of them, as we've all read, is about avoiding detection. Think of them in terms of new computer virus's. Company's spend billions trying to detect the latest bug and stop it...and some 16 year old defeats the latest patch by breakfast tomorrow.

Pro sports has not anywhere near as aggressively hunted steroids and...viola, chemistry drop outs are coming up with the latest, greatest 'undetectable' booster.

People are saying idiotic things like "Why would Raffi do it? He's set for life!".

Horseshit. If you have the lifestyle, travel, homes, etc, one more contract, $5 or 10 million more, is awful attractive, especially when you can see the end as older guys can.

Steroids have all but been approved by the leagues from the 'don't get caught' standpoint. That means 15 year vets on their way to the hall of fame and first year rookies and AAA kids all face the same challenge; how can I be a little quicker? A little stronger? Recover a week sooner? A day?"

If I'm not, someone else is gonna take my job.

The owners, players, writers and fans have all said it's OK just as long as the code of silence remains.

Raffi owes Jose an apology.

 

[jazz lady]

I've always had respect for his baseball skills, and his character. Like Otter, the jury is still out, and the sports spin doctors have already forged ahead.

I'll wait and see.

I'm not willing to convict him just yet. Raffi has been and I hope always be one of the people I truly respect in baseball. I love his work ethic, his joy for the game, and his many, many contributions off the field as well.

Steroids have all but been approved by the leagues from the 'don't get caught' standpoint. That means 15 year vets on their way to the hall of fame and first year rookies and AAA kids all face the same challenge; how can I be a little quicker? A little stronger? Recover a week sooner? A day?"

If I'm not, someone else is gonna take my job.
The owners, players, writers and fans have all said it's OK just as long as the code of silence remains.

Raffi owes Jose an apology.

Very cynical indeed, Larry, but it's food for thought. Maybe it will come out as you say, but until then I am giving Raffi the benefit of the doubt based on my perception of his character. Time will tell.

 

[cattitude]

Raffi owes Jose an apology.

Funny, Jose was sticking up for Raffi last night, saying he believes Raffi's innocent in that the postive test was a result of residue.


http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/3853516

 

[jazz lady]

Funny, Jose was sticking up for Raffi last night, saying he believes Raffi's innocent in that the postive test was a result of residue.


http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/3853516

But Canseco contends that Palmeiro's test is proof that Major League Baseball is corrupt.

"If he would have tested positive months back or years back, nothing would have happened. Right now, Major League Baseball may be trying to clean up steroids in its system, but they're going about it the completely wrong way," Canseco said.

"If Major League Baseball and the players' association are left to run rampant and destroy these individuals' lives, they're going to continue doing it. "The players' association and Major League Baseball don't agree on a lot of things. But the thing they agree on 100 percent of the time is making money. And it's all about making money."

I truly think they are trying to make an example of him in the steroid abuse case. He's high-profile, well-liked, and in the twilight years of his career. He was also a shoo-in for the Hall of Fame, which now may be in jeopardy because of this.

 

[AK-74me]

...you should be surprised. Surprised he got caught, not that he was taking steroids.

First off, it is patently obvious that many, if not most, pro atheletes are using some sort of performance enhancement, by whatever name, that we would all consider cheating and have been for over a decade. For older guys like Bonds and Raffi, it's about bouncing back from minor injuries quicker. It's about hanging on to reflexes just a year or two more.

Diet and exercise are not some brand new panacea and dedication and discipline weren't invented in the 1990's. Look at these guys and what they're doing and look at their age.

Steroids, the chemistry of them, as we've all read, is about avoiding detection. Think of them in terms of new computer virus's. Company's spend billions trying to detect the latest bug and stop it...and some 16 year old defeats the latest patch by breakfast tomorrow.

Pro sports has not anywhere near as aggressively hunted steroids and...viola, chemistry drop outs are coming up with the latest, greatest 'undetectable' booster.

People are saying idiotic things like "Why would Raffi do it? He's set for life!".

Horseshit. If you have the lifestyle, travel, homes, etc, one more contract, $5 or 10 million more, is awful attractive, especially when you can see the end as older guys can.

Steroids have all but been approved by the leagues from the 'don't get caught' standpoint. That means 15 year vets on their way to the hall of fame and first year rookies and AAA kids all face the same challenge; how can I be a little quicker? A little stronger? Recover a week sooner? A day?"

If I'm not, someone else is gonna take my job.

The owners, players, writers and fans have all said it's OK just as long as the code of silence remains.

Raffi owes Jose an apology.

I am not going to disagree with you, but just cause someone is getting up there in years dosen't mean they still can't be productive. Look at Hank Aarons later years he still put up some awesome numbers.

I am not ready to burn Palmerio at the stake yet, it be a different story if it was Bonds (with all his obvious signs...... rapid muscle gain, water retention in the face ect.....) but Palmerio hasn't really changed much over the years.

 

[Larry Gude]

Now catt...

was a result of residue.

Wanna finish THAT sentence for me?

Residue of...the steroids he NEVER did???

 

[AK-74me]

Ok so they reported what steroid was found. It was Winstrol. From what I remember/understand Winstrol is commonly used by Body builders during their cutting phase and is typically used to get "hard" rather than put on bulk. This is a real steroid and not really what I was expecting them to find. I am pretty sure that winstrol is almost always injected so I don't really know how he is gonna sell "I unknowingly" took it. I think this is also what got Ben Johnson in trouble during the '88? Olympics.

 

[Larry Gude]

Jazz...

Very cynical indeed, Larry, but it's food for thought. Maybe it will come out as you say, but until then I am giving Raffi the benefit of the doubt based on my perception of his character. Time will tell.

I am not cycnical in the 'they all do it' school of thought but whenever someone like Palmeiro stands up and says "I did NOT, no way, no how do this" my BS detector goes off.

Cal, Ryn Sandburg, Ozzie Smith and 100's of other super stars faded out in their late 30's/early 40's because they were simply getting old. I think they represent a school of thought that says 'when my time comes, it comes' so I don't mean to indict ALL ball players.

When the owners, trainers, players AND reporters decide to come clean on all of this, we can move on. In the mean time, the last 10 years or so will simply be remembered as the dawn of the steriod era and they are ALL guilty at least by association until they do say 'enough'.

 

[cattitude]

Wanna finish THAT sentence for me?

Residue of...the steroids he NEVER did???

I was just repeating what Jose said in his interview the other night.


After hearing the news reports last night and this morning, I have to say that I'm terribly disappointed. I really hoped that Palmeiro was telling the truth when he testified in front of Congress. He has been a favorite of mine for years. I hate liars. People make mistakes, fine, own up to it. But to go before all of those people, under oath, and lie (which it would appear he did) is inexcusable.

 

[ladybug2004]

I was just repeating what Jose said in his interview the other night.


After hearing the news reports last night and this morning, I have to say that I'm terribly disappointed. I really hoped that Palmeiro was telling the truth when he testified in front of Congress. He has been a favorite of mine for years. I hate liars. People make mistakes, fine, own up to it. But to go before all of those people, under oath, and lie (which it would appear he did) is inexcusable.

 

[Short_Cake]

Doesn't anyone think there is the possibility that some OTC product he took caused a "false" positive?

Maybe a testosterone supplement? :shrug:

Just a thought, but I know Raffy was the spokesperson for Viagra, in his commercial it said he takes Viagra. Would it by chance have any steroids in it??

 

[Larry Gude]

the dope on the dope...

http://washingtontimes.com/sports/20050803-124234-5572r.htm

Rafael Palmeiro's positive steroid test was for stanozolol, a powerful anabolic steroid that is not available in dietary supplements, according to a newspaper report.

Not Viagra.

 

[Tonio]

The Dog Ate My Steroids, and Other Excuses

"Of course I can't be 100% certain that anybody [spiked my drink] but I can't see any other way. … You can't lock [drinks] away every time you take a vault, so it's possible."
—Pole-vaulter Janine Whitlock, July 19, 2002, after testing positive for steroids at the Commonwealth Games

"Nobody on the planet could say that I don't love my wife and I don't love my kids. … I have never in my life, nor would I ever, do anything to jeopardize their opinion of me. I don't know what has happened and I don't know how it has happened. I promise everybody I'm going to find out."
—Shot-putter C.J. Hunter, Sept. 25, 2000, after failing four separate tests for anabolic steroids

"[My coach] had given me this pill and I had taken it. He told me it was not a steroid and that it would just keep you 'up' so you wouldn't be so fatigued."
—Sprinter Calvin Harrison, after testing positive for the stimulant modafinil (Guardian, Oct. 27, 2003)

 

[jazz lady]

I am not cycnical in the 'they all do it' school of thought but whenever someone like Palmeiro stands up and says "I did NOT, no way, no how do this" my BS detector goes off.

Cal, Ryn Sandburg, Ozzie Smith and 100's of other super stars faded out in their late 30's/early 40's because they were simply getting old. I think they represent a school of thought that says 'when my time comes, it comes' so I don't mean to indict ALL ball players.

When the owners, trainers, players AND reporters decide to come clean on all of this, we can move on. In the mean time, the last 10 years or so will simply be remembered as the dawn of the steriod era and they are ALL guilty at least by association until they do say 'enough'.

I understand your point, Larry. His vehemence in denying it before Congress was very convincing, but his actions for the last couple of days has not been.

I'm just highly disappointed that someone I have admired is looking more and more likely that he has probably lied. I can take a lot of things in life, but just don't lie to me.

 

[Ken King]

I understand your point, Larry. His vehemence in denying it before Congress was very convincing, but his actions for the last couple of days has not been.

I'm just highly disappointed that someone I have admired is looking more and more likely that he has probably lied. I can take a lot of things in life, but just don't lie to me.

 

[Pete]

I understand your point, Larry. His vehemence in denying it before Congress was very convincing, but his actions for the last couple of days has not been.

I'm just highly disappointed that someone I have admired is looking more and more likely that he has probably lied. I can take a lot of things in life, but just don't lie to me.

People suck regardless of net worth or fame.

 

[jazz lady]

People suck regardless of net worth or fame.

Not all people - just some. Unfortunately, I seem to be getting this message drummed into my head this year quite often.