Random Thoughts

Larry Gude

Strung Out
...

You mean, as a consequence of 9/11 and DHS, that air travel has become more intrusive? It needs to be, and frankly, always should have been. In Russia, they scoured through every last piece of luggage we had. In France, they picked apart our food. And I understand in other countries, guards walk about with automatic weapons - and these are Western democracies.

Other than that, I haven't seen anything that I have "lost" as a consequence of these events.

Do you mean, that entering and exiting this country has become more difficult, and even crossing into and back from Canada, they've begun to examine more closely? Good. Once, back in 1978, I crossed into Canada wearing army surplus clothing, and was detained at the border for an *HOUR* by the Canadians. In the 70's. An hour. You want to get in another country without documentation? Good luck.

How have my civil liberties been curtailed? Enlighten me. Apparently I don't know what I've lost.


The FBI, long before 9/11, went to the Justice Department and asked for permission to look into several KNOWN terror suspects who had been reported as engaging in suspicious activity including, but not limited to, learning to fly planes on simulators and skipping the landing and take off parts of the classes.

The FBI had gotten leads on these people from the CIA and military intelligence sources. The FBI wanted to look deeper into them, tail them, tap them, break into their computers, etc.

In a memo, Justice said...no. In a memo. The Justice Department in the person of Jaimie Gorelick, reiterated the separation between the left and right hands, the domestic FBI and the foreign CIA, in terms of sharing and cooperating. Never mind this was done to keep the shield in place cover the Clinton admins dubious and probably illegal dealings outside the US involving money. The point is, it was done. In a memo.

Had that memo simply said "In this case, for the reasons you laid out, GO GET 'EM!" we would not be having this conversation. I'll leave you to analyze whether it is better to 'go get 'em' or to add more and more layers of bureaucracy with all the infringements on our life, liberty and pursuit of happiness that government expansion tends to entail. And I'll leave it to you to opine on whether going after people and getting them is, perhaps, better than the Bush doctrine of partial war, partial nation building and pseudo democracy spreading, such as it is.

I'll leave it to you to wonder how much extra government is really necessary when we instead actually go after the bad guys and make them pay, including their sponsors. People tend to leave doors unlocked in neighborhoods where the cops beat the crap out of the burglars. The burglars live in fear, not the people.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
We pat down little old ladies and teenagers while Muslim looking males waltz on the plane.

We stand in lines to be searched, the presumption of guilt.

METRO is now exerting the right to randomly search bags.

Private business's are told no smoking whether they like it or not.

New York tells restaurants how to prepare food.

Every police force in the nation has gotten all sorts of money and goodies to be 'first responders' instead of just cops.

Well, all of that is certainly Bush's fault. :rolleyes:
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
...

Well, all of that is certainly Bush's fault. :rolleyes:

...yeah, the DHS and the Patriot Act and all that spending and new bureaucracies just rose up out of the muck, all by themselves and, *gasp* Bush's pen magically appeared and put his signature to it all as he watched, horrified and helpless.

:jameo:
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
...yeah, the DHS and the Patriot Act and all that spending and new bureaucracies just rose up out of the muck, all by themselves and, *gasp* Bush's pen magically appeared and put his signature to it all as he watched, horrified and helpless.

Yeah, I'm sure Bush came and arm wrestled the MD legislature to ban smoking. He almost certainly hog tied Michael Bloomberg and made him ban transfat. He personally stands there and frisks old ladies and little kids at the airport. And obviously he forced Metro to search passengers.

:rolleyes:

You are so kirked out over the top it's not even remotely amusing or interesting - just scary.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
...

Yeah, I'm sure Bush came and arm wrestled the MD legislature to ban smoking. He almost certainly hog tied Michael Bloomberg and made him ban transfat. He personally stands there and frisks old ladies and little kids at the airport. And obviously he forced Metro to search passengers.

:rolleyes:

You are so kirked out over the top it's not even remotely amusing or interesting - just scary.

...and the pattern repeats itself.

We have a larger government than before. More layers of bureaucracy before. An entire new level of investigative government. An entire new department; The Orwell sounding DEPARTMENT of HOMELAND SECURITY Is goot yah?

I say we're becoming a police state. I explain why. Doesn't fit your view. Therefore, I am kirking out. I am scary.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
...and the pattern repeats itself.

We have a larger government than before. More layers of bureaucracy before. An entire new level of investigative government. An entire new department; The Orwell sounding DEPARTMENT of HOMELAND SECURITY Is goot yah?

I say we're becoming a police state. I explain why. Doesn't fit your view. Therefore, I am kirking out. I am scary.

AND IT'S ALL GEORGE BUSH'S FAULT! :jameo:


THAT, Mr. Gude, is what I'm taking issue with - your need for a scapegoat to be the cause of every ill in the world. Somehow you've forgotten about Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid and Roy Blunt and John Boehner. They're just little inconsequential nobodies, and George Bush is IMPERIAL RULER OF THE UNIVERSE.

You harp constantly because you think Homeland Security sounds ominous and Orwellian. What if he called it the Dept. of Hearts and Flowers? Would you like it better then? What is so Orwellian about national security?
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
...

AND IT'S ALL GEORGE BUSH'S FAULT! :jameo:


THAT, Mr. Gude, is what I'm taking issue with - your need for a scapegoat to be the cause of every ill in the world. Somehow you've forgotten about Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid and Roy Blunt and John Boehner. They're just little inconsequential nobodies, and George Bush is IMPERIAL RULER OF THE UNIVERSE.

You harp constantly because you think Homeland Security sounds ominous and Orwellian. What if he called it the Dept. of Hearts and Flowers? Would you like it better then? What is so Orwellian about national security?

...actually, I was kinda happy with FBI and CIA, especially seeings how they weren't the problem.


Immigration
Energy
the bail out(s)
the hand outs
medicare
Housing

You know, every 'little' thing.

Let me ask you; do you recall any big effort from your boy to do ANYTHING about these issues in regards to ol' Nance and Harry et al getting in his way? Me neither. Now, as far as the bailouts, going to war and the things George gave two ####s about, do you recall a little more...effort?

Me, too.
 

annoyance

New Member
AND IT'S ALL GEORGE BUSH'S FAULT! :jameo:


your need for a scapegoat to be the cause of every ill in the world.


Kinda like how you alluded to Obama being responsible for your stocks tanking, instead of accepting that you screwed up while playing the market.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Kinda like how you alluded to Obama being responsible for your stocks tanking, instead of accepting that you screwed up while playing the market.

:roflmao:

Sweetie, my stocks are solid and invested in companies that aren't going anywhere. It's an historical fact that the stock market dips in anticipation of a Democrat Prez. Which is interesting, because the market has always done better under a Democrat President.

So no worries. They'll be going back up shortly. I just wanted to point out that the world hasn't suddenly become a perfect rosy place now that The Messiah is going to lead it.
 

annoyance

New Member
:roflmao:

I just wanted to point out that the world hasn't suddenly become a perfect rosy place now that The Messiah is going to lead it.


I'm pretty sure that was the cornerstone of Obama's speech last night. You can probably still find it on Youtube or Google videos.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
...

I'm pretty sure that was the cornerstone of Obama's speech last night. You can probably still find it on Youtube or Google videos.

WHAT????

I just sold the farm, packed up the guitars and got the crack pipe lubed up and was about to join the revolution. What are you saying???????????
 

annoyance

New Member
...well, by all means, show us dumb ass GOP'ers how it's done. Seeings how we gotta pay for it anyway...


:lol:


Actually, given the tendency for republicans to get caught in gay sex scandals, you're probably doing it exactly right. I stand corrected.
 

backagain39

New Member
Look! An issue we totally disagree on!

And the Patriot Act is what? A surveillance act. We live in a nation that could not function with the FBI simply asking to go look closer at some suspected terrorists. No. We needed an entire act, setting legal precedent and circumventing most if not all of the legal process and Bill of Rights if a handful of people feel like it. On whomever they feel like.

We pat down little old ladies and teenagers while Muslim looking males waltz on the plane.

We stand in lines to be searched, the presumption of guilt.

METRO is now exerting the right to randomly search bags.

Private business's are told no smoking whether they like it or not.

New York tells restaurants how to prepare food.

Every police force in the nation has gotten all sorts of money and goodies to be 'first responders' instead of just cops.

Call it PC. Call it police state. Call it what you will. Go through the Bill of Rights sometime and see how many of them are violated, every day, by our government.

How much longer do you think you'll be able to legally have cigarettes?

Obama smokes so the cigarettes are safe......for now.
 
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