Larry Gude
Strung Out
...
The FBI, long before 9/11, went to the Justice Department and asked for permission to look into several KNOWN terror suspects who had been reported as engaging in suspicious activity including, but not limited to, learning to fly planes on simulators and skipping the landing and take off parts of the classes.
The FBI had gotten leads on these people from the CIA and military intelligence sources. The FBI wanted to look deeper into them, tail them, tap them, break into their computers, etc.
In a memo, Justice said...no. In a memo. The Justice Department in the person of Jaimie Gorelick, reiterated the separation between the left and right hands, the domestic FBI and the foreign CIA, in terms of sharing and cooperating. Never mind this was done to keep the shield in place cover the Clinton admins dubious and probably illegal dealings outside the US involving money. The point is, it was done. In a memo.
Had that memo simply said "In this case, for the reasons you laid out, GO GET 'EM!" we would not be having this conversation. I'll leave you to analyze whether it is better to 'go get 'em' or to add more and more layers of bureaucracy with all the infringements on our life, liberty and pursuit of happiness that government expansion tends to entail. And I'll leave it to you to opine on whether going after people and getting them is, perhaps, better than the Bush doctrine of partial war, partial nation building and pseudo democracy spreading, such as it is.
I'll leave it to you to wonder how much extra government is really necessary when we instead actually go after the bad guys and make them pay, including their sponsors. People tend to leave doors unlocked in neighborhoods where the cops beat the crap out of the burglars. The burglars live in fear, not the people.
You mean, as a consequence of 9/11 and DHS, that air travel has become more intrusive? It needs to be, and frankly, always should have been. In Russia, they scoured through every last piece of luggage we had. In France, they picked apart our food. And I understand in other countries, guards walk about with automatic weapons - and these are Western democracies.
Other than that, I haven't seen anything that I have "lost" as a consequence of these events.
Do you mean, that entering and exiting this country has become more difficult, and even crossing into and back from Canada, they've begun to examine more closely? Good. Once, back in 1978, I crossed into Canada wearing army surplus clothing, and was detained at the border for an *HOUR* by the Canadians. In the 70's. An hour. You want to get in another country without documentation? Good luck.
How have my civil liberties been curtailed? Enlighten me. Apparently I don't know what I've lost.
The FBI, long before 9/11, went to the Justice Department and asked for permission to look into several KNOWN terror suspects who had been reported as engaging in suspicious activity including, but not limited to, learning to fly planes on simulators and skipping the landing and take off parts of the classes.
The FBI had gotten leads on these people from the CIA and military intelligence sources. The FBI wanted to look deeper into them, tail them, tap them, break into their computers, etc.
In a memo, Justice said...no. In a memo. The Justice Department in the person of Jaimie Gorelick, reiterated the separation between the left and right hands, the domestic FBI and the foreign CIA, in terms of sharing and cooperating. Never mind this was done to keep the shield in place cover the Clinton admins dubious and probably illegal dealings outside the US involving money. The point is, it was done. In a memo.
Had that memo simply said "In this case, for the reasons you laid out, GO GET 'EM!" we would not be having this conversation. I'll leave you to analyze whether it is better to 'go get 'em' or to add more and more layers of bureaucracy with all the infringements on our life, liberty and pursuit of happiness that government expansion tends to entail. And I'll leave it to you to opine on whether going after people and getting them is, perhaps, better than the Bush doctrine of partial war, partial nation building and pseudo democracy spreading, such as it is.
I'll leave it to you to wonder how much extra government is really necessary when we instead actually go after the bad guys and make them pay, including their sponsors. People tend to leave doors unlocked in neighborhoods where the cops beat the crap out of the burglars. The burglars live in fear, not the people.